Trade targets

[LGR4GM]

56 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

No, never said Cozens is better than Horvat.  I said we have Tage and Cozens and other talent/prospects at C.  
 

If the price for Horvat is really 3 #1’s equivalents then I move on and prefer to upgrade RHD and also find a few strong two way forwards instead.  

 

I think Cozens is better than Horvat. If not this second by as early as October 2023. 

[LGR4GM]

If Horvat was signed for say 6mil for another 2 years or 3 years, I would be interested in this trade idea. I think he could be a useful asset to a team that is trying to take the next step but he isn't signed. He is a UFA who is having a career year and will want 6, 7, maybe 8 years on his new deal that would take him all the way to 34-36 years old. He is shooting 8.9% over his career average and that to me is suspect in someone his age with the number of games played he has, this isn't Tage Thompson. How much are any of you willing to give for a 20-25g, 25-35a center? Both in terms of trade assets and in terms of dollar/years for the extension? How does that improve a team that desperately needs defense? 

Edited January 19, 2023 by LGR4GM

[thewookie1]

58 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Yes, we need this type of player on a third line, but I think he realistically falls into the “will never consider Buffalo” bucket. 

He has zero protections

[Pimlach]

17 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I think Cozens is better than Horvat. If not this second by as early as October 2023. 

Yes, I  think he will eventually get better than him because he will play a 200 foot game, but nowhere in this thread have I said he is better because right now he is not.   I just don't want to trade all those assets for a center with a big contract like Horvat, when we need help in other places such as defense.  Additionally, I prefer to bring in some help on the wing that can play a better two way game than Mitts, VO, Asplund, and Z.  

8 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

He has zero protections

OK, but if you want to bring in players "that want to be here" you better be sure he does before a trade.  

[thewookie1]

15 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

 

OK, but if you want to bring in players "that want to be here" you better be sure he does before a trade.  

Yes of course; not sure why he wouldn't like it here though

[TageMVP]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

So your only reason to move Cozens to wing and acquire Horvat, who's 28 and will cost 8 million or more to retain, is Horvat is better at faceoffs? 

Olofsson wasn't moved up because the only thing he brings is his shot. 

Are there any concrete reasons Cozens needs to stay at center? You wouldn't pay Horvat say 8 million for 4 years? 28 is too old for the NHL now? 

  

[TageMVP]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

No, never said Cozens is better than Horvat.  I said we have Tage and Cozens and other talent/prospects at C.  
 

If the price for Horvat is really 3 #1’s equivalents then I move on and prefer to upgrade RHD and also find a few strong two way forwards instead.  

 

So you're banking on the hit or miss strategy of "prospects" instead of wanting a proven commodity 

[Buffalonill]

8 minutes ago, TageMVP said:

So you're banking on the hit or miss strategy of "prospects" instead of wanting a proven commodity 

Finally buffalo is developing their own and are slowly becoming stars lets not toss away players and screw things up 

[TageMVP]

Just now, Buffalonill said:

Finally buffalo is developing their own and are slowly becoming stars lets not toss away players and screw things up 

So, trading some of our prospects, some of who will never make the NHL, screws up the plan? 

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, TageMVP said:

So you're banking on the hit or miss strategy of "prospects" instead of wanting a proven commodity 

You put it negatively, but Yes.  I am banking on a few of those players being very good NHL players.  Kulich is already rising fast.  He is not tradable IMO.  He will be a top 6 winger.   Don't know about Savoie or Östlund, I would be willing to move one of them to improve another weak area.  

I prefer to pay Cozens and watch him turn into great 2-way player.  I think he will.  I do not want to pay big money for three centers (Tage, Horvat, Cozens)  when we have holes on defense, holes in the net, and we are weak on the wings.  Plus, I still have to pay Dahlin, our best player.  

I prefer to trade some our prospects/assets to improve our defense and get some stronger wingers that are both skilled and physical players.  

Horvat is very good but we have other needs.  How about a strong and physical RHD that can play with Owen Power?  Then the can move Joker to the third pair with Looby and say goodbye to Bryson.   That move alone improves two positions by adding just one player and it should not break the bank either.  

Next look at wing.  Tuch and Skinner are the best 2 right now.  Peterka and Quinn are 21 year old rookies that look promising but this year they are streaky, at time over their heads, and are often pushed around to the point that some games they are falling all over the ice.  Next season will be better.   

Next look VO, Mitts, Z, KO, and Asplund.   We have lost a lot of games with these guys.   Let's re-tool the bottom 6, and it should not be very expensive to do so.   None of the current wingers are critical to the long term success of this team.   KO brings leadership but we have emerging leaders (Dahlin, Tuch, Cozens).  VO brings a shot but nothing else.  Z brings physical play but maybe its time to move on from him.   

Jost has been a solid acquisition as a 3C or 4C.  Krebs might be tradable but I think his situation is similar to Peterka and Quinn in that Adams will likely want to see what becomes of him next year. 

Bottom line:  Horvat is great but I am not willing to trade 3 #1 equivalents and take on his salary, when I could use those assets to improve multiple positions of higher need.  Over.  

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Pimlach

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, TageMVP said:

So you're banking on the hit or miss strategy of "prospects" instead of wanting a proven commodity 

 

1 hour ago, TageMVP said:

So, trading some of our prospects, some of who will never make the NHL, screws up the plan? 

 

There's no guarantee the player you trade for is going to play up to expectations either.

The Sabres decided to take a shortcut to winning under Tim Murray and you saw what they got us. Making the playoffs this year is a fan expectation, not an expectation in Kevyn Adams' office. I'd rather take the time to let this team emerge from the inside.

[Buffalonill]

1 hour ago, TageMVP said:

So, trading some of our prospects, some of who will never make the NHL, screws up the plan? 

You think Vancouver wants players like rosen ? Lol more like jack quinn and jj .

That i say no 

[French Collection]

1 hour ago, TageMVP said:

So you're banking on the hit or miss strategy of "prospects" instead of wanting a proven commodity 

I really like Bo Horvat.

This is Horvat’s 9th NHL season. He will be 28 in a few months, he will not be a better hockey player going forward.

He is on pace for a massive season as he becomes a UFA. He has turned down Vancouver’s “fair” offer.

His career highs for goals is 31 and points is 61.

After this career year he will probably want $8.5-9.5M per season with as much term as possible, probably 6-7 years. I would sign 24 year old Bo Horvat to that.

Vancouver will want a lot of assets for him and there is no guarantee he extends. He wants to be paid, he saw what JT Miller got for a career year.

He has not led Vancouver to any significant amount of success.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, TageMVP said:

Are there any concrete reasons Cozens needs to stay at center? You wouldn't pay Horvat say 8 million for 4 years? 28 is too old for the NHL now? 

  

Why wouldn't I want Dylan Cozens at center? What advantage do I get by moving him to wing? 

I'm sorry but that term length is laughable to me. No agent is going to let the #1 UFA center accept a 4 year term. It is going to be at least 6 and I bet teams will give him 7 years. 28 is not too old but 32 might be. 35 is certainly not great.

And again my question, what does adding a 50pt center to this lineup improve? You want David Pastrnak, sure I can see that. You want Chychrun, I think he is injury prone but I see how he helps. You want Horvat, why? Cozens is 6 years younger and does everything he does.

[Pimlach]

3 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Yes of course; not sure why he wouldn't like it here though

He might like it here but he might not want to take the risk in finding out.

Until this team starts consistently winning it will be considered the Siberia of the NHL. 

[dudacek]

33 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

 

Until this team starts consistently winning it will be considered the Siberia of the NHL. 

This will continue for some sources even after the team is successful.

I would say the presence of Dahlin and Thompson and more offensive talent on the ice, and the approach of Granato and Adams off it has already moved it away from that perception in the eyes of many players and agents.

[Pimlach]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

This will continue for some sources even after the team is successful.

I would say the presence of Dahlin and Thompson and more offensive talent on the ice, and the approach of Granato and Adams off it has already moved it away from that perception in the eyes of many players and agents.

maybe so.  But there is much more work to do.  I agree with KA, do not bother with players that do not want to be here.  

[French Collection]

Matt Dumba is a healthy scratch for the Wild. He says he had a bad game the night before and the coach is sending a message.

He has been the focus of a lot of trade speculation. 
If being healthy scratched is not trade related it lowers his value to potential buyers.
 

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/minnesota-wild-matt-dumba-healthy-scratch-vs-carolina-hurricanes-1.1908271

[Weave]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

This will continue for some sources even after the team is successful.

I would say the presence of Dahlin and Thompson and more offensive talent on the ice, and the approach of Granato and Adams off it has already moved it away from that perception in the eyes of many players and agents.

We won’t have any evidence of this until high value FAs and players with NMCs start showing up on the Sabres roster.

[dudacek]

46 minutes ago, Weave said:

We won’t have any evidence of this until high value FAs and players with NMCs start showing up on the Sabres roster.

Like Kyle Okposo and Josh Gorges?

[Weave]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Like Kyle Okposo and Josh Gorges?

And nothing for 6 yrs after.

[dudacek]

3 minutes ago, Weave said:

And nothing for 6 yrs after.

My point was more "be careful what you wish for."

 

[Thorner]

7 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

If Horvat was signed for say 6mil for another 2 years or 3 years, I would be interested in this trade idea. I think he could be a useful asset to a team that is trying to take the next step but he isn't signed. He is a UFA who is having a career year and will want 6, 7, maybe 8 years on his new deal that would take him all the way to 34-36 years old. He is shooting 8.9% over his career average and that to me is suspect in someone his age with the number of games played he has, this isn't Tage Thompson. How much are any of you willing to give for a 20-25g, 25-35a center? Both in terms of trade assets and in terms of dollar/years for the extension? How does that improve a team that desperately needs defense? 

If the evaluation isn’t there, it’s not there. I agree. 

I always envisioned Horvat as a F with a great defensive game for some reason, so he’d be the exact type of F I’d want to add to this team that needs better 2 way play all around. But if he’s not that guy I would look elsewhere even if the price was right 

[Thorner]

4 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

You think Vancouver wants players like rosen ? Lol more like jack quinn and jj .

That i say no 

If the line is keeping guys like JJ and being open to dealing guys like Rosen for the right upgrade, I fall on the same side. Unless someone blows the doors off I’m keeping my key prospects, but dealing some of the other guys, when we have so many, isn’t just something I’m open to I’d say it’s actively the correct idea. Convert some to currency, use your great talent eval to decide who, the intel other teams don’t have, getting a leg up on those teams in the process.

Making some trades, dealing some prospects, isn’t “Tim Murraying” the team, whatever that is. Any sort of absolute stringency isn’t a good plan, and it’s not what KA is doing 

[inkman]

3 hours ago, French Collection said:

Matt Dumba is a healthy scratch for the Wild. He says he had a bad game the night before and the coach is sending a message.

He has been the focus of a lot of trade speculation. 
If being healthy scratched is not trade related it lowers his value to potential buyers.
 

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/minnesota-wild-matt-dumba-healthy-scratch-vs-carolina-hurricanes-1.1908271

I wonder what the price would be