Trade targets

[Weave]

36 minutes ago, dudacek said:

My point was more "be careful what you wish for."

 

I can’t envision it being a bad thing to be a potential destination for an in demand player.

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

I can’t envision it being a bad thing to be a potential destination for an in demand player.

There’s a school of thought that says the team that spends nothing on July 1 is the winner. I guess sometimes too much $ in the hands of a GM represents a weapon just as likely to cause damage to themselves as others. Of course, to your point a disciplined GM having more options wouldn’t seem like a bad thing. But the biggest priced FAs declining your franchise serves to take that weapon out of your hand, for you.

For worse, or better, is I suppose duda’s point 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Thorny

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

If the evaluation isn’t there, it’s not there. I agree. 

I always envisioned Horvat as a F with a great defensive game for some reason, so he’d be the exact type of F I’d want to add to this team that needs better 2 way play all around. But if he’s not that guy I would look elsewhere even if the price was right 

Vancouver fans on hfboards disabused me of the notion that Horvat is good defencively.  Based on their descriptions, I like Cozens better on the defencive side of the centre red line.

FYI: Horvat already turned down a long term contract with an AAV greater than Tage Thompson's.  Plus the cost of his acquisition is Eichel-like.  And then his shooting percentage this season is well above his career highs, let alone norms.  In the words of Charles Anderson Worsley,the Second Earl of Yarborough, as dealer, Pass.

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, Marvin said:

Vancouver fans on hfboards disabused me of the notion that Horvat is good defencively.  Based on their descriptions, I like Cozens better on the defencive side of the centre red line.

FYI: Horvat already turned down a long term contract with an AAV greater than Tage Thompson's.  Plus the cost of his acquisition is Eichel-like.  And then his shooting percentage this season is well above his career highs, let alone norms.  In the words of Charles Anderson Worsley,the Second Earl of Yarborough, as dealer, Pass.

I prefer Hank Yarborough myself but, good stuff 

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, Marvin said:

Vancouver fans on hfboards disabused me of the notion that Horvat is good defencively.  Based on their descriptions, I like Cozens better on the defencive side of the centre red line.

FYI: Horvat already turned down a long term contract with an AAV greater than Tage Thompson's.  Plus the cost of his acquisition is Eichel-like.  And then his shooting percentage this season is well above his career highs, let alone norms.  In the words of Charles Anderson Worsley,the Second Earl of Yarborough, as dealer, Pass.

Yup. I keep trying to tell ppl the cost but it gets ignored. 

4 hours ago, French Collection said:

Matt Dumba is a healthy scratch for the Wild. He says he had a bad game the night before and the coach is sending a message.

He has been the focus of a lot of trade speculation. 
If being healthy scratched is not trade related it lowers his value to potential buyers.
 

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/minnesota-wild-matt-dumba-healthy-scratch-vs-carolina-hurricanes-1.1908271

It lowers nothing imo.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Like Kyle Okposo and Josh Gorges?

We signed Jeff Skinner too. 

[Quint]

Here's a compilation of grades and observations about Dumba from TSN and a Wild chat board. He's been healthy-scratched for two straight games now. I think he's almost certain to be traded at this point.

TSN: 

Assets: Has electric skating ability and a very aggressive approach to the game. Can rush up the ice with the puck with aplomb, and provide huge open-ice hits that change the momentum of a  game. Can also log big minutes. Owns a big point shot, too.

Flaws:  Needs to play a little more in control in order to maximize his vast all-around potential in the National Hockey League. Must also fill out his 6-0 frame to better handle the rigors of the pro game. At times, he strugges with the decision-making process.

Career Potential: Dynamic, big-minute defenseman.

Fan grades and comments: 

Dumba........... C- (not a fan)

Dumba - C (more or less is what he is at this point. Defense has leveled off to a ‘fine’ level and his offense has been hindered by injuries. Willing to stick his nose in but his frame limits his effectiveness here unless he is catching someone with a hit in a bad spot. Careless penalties also need to stop.)

Fair: Dumba (barely) Dumba was very close to being bad, his 18:11/game 5v5 ToI (25th leaguewide) is what bumped him up.
 

It's hardly scientific but he doesn't seem like a fan favorite at this point. However after about 8 years, he may have gotten stale over in MN. I like that he's a RHD and he can skate. He is 28 and only stands 6' / 183 lb. He does make big open ice hits but he seems to get injured... 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Quint

[Flashsabre]

Friedman on Jeff Marek show says he thinks Sabres would be a perfect fit for Chychrun. Didn’t say it as a rumour, just a conversation. Thinks price might be too high for Sabres but the fit would be very good.  

[Digger]

If Horvat becomes a UFA I would make a call to see if there's a fit for him with the Sabres.  He grew up in the London Ontario area so if that's of interest to him (playing close to home in the East), Toronto, Buffalo, Detroit.  Toronto can't afford him.  I'm not convinced that Vancouver offered him as big of a contract as the rumors say.  I think he gets traded as a rental and becomes a UFA.  I think that he'll be this season's Nazim Kadri (signed late with Calgary but for less money than some thought he would get).  Someone suggested Seattle as a good fit for him (nice to add to the regional rivalry with the Canucks).

Edited January 21, 2023 by Digger

[Flashsabre]

“Show if Jakob Chychrun going to Buffalo makes sense. Friedman believes it does make sense because the Sabres want a bigger player and feel they get pushed around a bit. That said, the price being what it is, Friedman isn’t convinced the Sabres will pony up to get him.”

Interesting tidbit that Sabres want a bigger player because they feel they get pushed around. Maybe a Chychrun, Crouse blockbuster

[Norcal]

47 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

“Show if Jakob Chychrun going to Buffalo makes sense. Friedman believes it does make sense because the Sabres want a bigger player and feel they get pushed around a bit. That said, the price being what it is, Friedman isn’t convinced the Sabres will pony up to get him.”

Interesting tidbit that Sabres want a bigger player because they feel they get pushed around. Maybe a Chychrun, Crouse blockbuster

Stop teasing me 😋

[Sabres Fan in NS]

None.

[Doohicksie]

3 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

Interesting tidbit that Sabres want a bigger player because they feel they get pushed around.

Are they really saying that or is Friedman extrapolating and sprinkling in his own opinion?

[Huckleberry]

On 1/21/2023 at 4:34 AM, Digger said:

If Horvat becomes a UFA I would make a call to see if there's a fit for him with the Sabres.  He grew up in the London Ontario area so if that's of interest to him (playing close to home in the East), Toronto, Buffalo, Detroit.  Toronto can't afford him.  I'm not convinced that Vancouver offered him as big of a contract as the rumors say.  I think he gets traded as a rental and becomes a UFA.  I think that he'll be this season's Nazim Kadri (signed late with Calgary but for less money than some thought he would get).  Someone suggested Seattle as a good fit for him (nice to add to the regional rivalry with the Canucks).

Detroit can use him better than us, He would be a 3C here and overpaid for it.    I hear he is asking around 9 million too when he is basically a career 6 million player.

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Detroit can use him better than us, He would be a 3C here and overpaid for it.    I hear he is asking around 9 million too when he is basically a career 6 million player.

I agree we shouldn’t pay Horvat, but disagree with this idea creeping up that we should start paying based on static, sometimes non-descriptive line designations rather than production. Cozens is a 1C and will be paid like a 1C, and he’ll be playing 2C.* Doesn’t make it undesirable or overpaid for his position. Paying guys the going rate of a position above is often what happens when you start to get many good players, bumping guys into roles in the lineup they’ll have more success.

*funnily enough, our 1C is being paid like a 2C. A massive benefit. So not only will we be getting double the 1C production you want, it’ll be without the corresponding pay. But even if Thompson had a deal more reflective of his output, we’d be about to pay Cozens just like we are now 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Thorny

[LGR4GM]

Rumored cost of Horvat is 3 young pieces. Good young player, top prospect, and a 3rd item such as a 1st prospect or other young player. 

[dudacek]

Any time I listen to Adams it hear him indirectly saying:

• Skinner Thompson Tuch
• Quinn Cozens Peterka
• Krebs
• Dahlin Samuelsson
• Power
• Luukkonen

Are going to get every chance to be part of the long-term core of this team.

Levi is replacing Anderson.

Olofsson Mittelstadt Jokiharju, Lyubushkin, Bryson and Comrie are under contract for next year.

Asplund, Clague, Jost, Girgensons and Okposo are free agents. Any of them could be re-signed.

Basically, there are 11 roster slots in question and I suspect most of them will be filled with players already here unless we can sign or trade someone who upgrades the latter two groups.

Next year's team is going to look a lot like this year's.

 

[JohnC]

23 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Any time I listen to Adams it hear him indirectly saying:

• Skinner Thompson Tuch
• Quinn Cozens Peterka
• Krebs
• Dahlin Samuelsson
• Power
• Luukkonen

Are going to get every chance to be part of the long-term core of this team.

Levi is replacing Anderson.

Olofsson Mittelstadt Jokiharju, Lyubushkin, Bryson and Comrie are under contract for next year.

Asplund, Clague, Jost, Girgensons and Okposo are free agents. Any of them could be re-signed.

Basically, there are 11 roster slots in question and I suspect most of them will be filled with players already here unless we can sign or trade someone who upgrades the latter two groups.

Next year's team is going to look a lot like this year's.

 

I agree with most of your projections of players who will be here in the near future. However, the one player that DG favors more than fans do is Joki. I have heard him speak on more than a few occasions praising him as a player who has more upside to his game. I also believe that DG has a higher view of Mitts than many here. He repeatedly has noted that in last year's camp he was one of the best players in camp before getting hurt. 

[dudacek]

22 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I agree with most of your projections of players who will be here in the near future. However, the one player that DG favors more than fans do is Joki. I have heard him speak on more than a few occasions praising him as a player who has more upside to his game. I also believe that DG has a higher view of Mitts than many here. He repeatedly has noted that in last year's camp he was one of the best players in camp before getting hurt. 

All true.

I think Joki, Mitts and Olofsson are being given every opportunity to add themselves to the core.

However, each is a free agent summer of ‘24. The 1st 2 will have arbitration rights, while Victor will be a UFA.

The cap, the progress of younger players in the organization, and the desire to bring in upgrades from outside the organization will affect what happens there just as much as it will with lesser talents like Bryson and Comrie

This organization is not going to be able to keep everyone. Nor, in all likelihood, should they.

Edited January 23, 2023 by dudacek

[JohnC]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

All true.

I think Joki, Mitts and Olofsson are being given every opportunity to add themselves to the core.

However, each is a free agent summer of ‘24. The 1st 2 will have arbitration rights, while Victor will be a UFA.

The cap, the progress of younger players in the organization, and the desire to bring in upgrades from outside the organization will affect what happens there just as much as it will with lesser talents like Bryson and Comrie

This organization is not going to be able to keep everyone. Nor, in all likelihood, should they.

I agree with you that this organization will not be able to keep everyone, even if they wanted to. On the positive side that is an indication that the talent base has increased to the point where the cap will be squeezed as contracts come up. 

[Ducky]

Where would Chychrun play?

Aren't Dahlin and Power both LHD?

[dudacek]

5 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I agree with you that this organization will not be able to keep everyone, even if they wanted to. On the positive side that is an indication that the talent base has increased to the point where the cap will be squeezed as contracts come up. 

We’re more than halfway through the season and have seen most of what the league has to offer.

Im pretty confident talent is not much of an issue any more except in the crease. We have enough talent - speed and the ability to execute at speed - to keep up with any team in the league.

The issues are mostly consistency, defensive structure and a dab of that abrasive arrogance that defines teams like the Lightning.

Hopefully most of it will come through maturity.

[Thorner]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Rumored cost of Horvat is 3 young pieces. Good young player, top prospect, and a 3rd item such as a 1st prospect or other young player. 

Like, Mittelstadt, Rosen, 2024 protected 1st type?

Or Peterka, Savoie, 2023 protected first?

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Any time I listen to Adams it hear him indirectly saying:

• Skinner Thompson Tuch
• Quinn Cozens Peterka
• Krebs
• Dahlin Samuelsson
• Power
• Luukkonen

Are going to get every chance to be part of the long-term core of this team.

Levi is replacing Anderson.

Olofsson Mittelstadt Jokiharju, Lyubushkin, Bryson and Comrie are under contract for next year.

Asplund, Clague, Jost, Girgensons and Okposo are free agents. Any of them could be re-signed.

Basically, there are 11 roster slots in question and I suspect most of them will be filled with players already here unless we can sign or trade someone who upgrades the latter two groups.

Next year's team is going to look a lot like this year's.

 

Except Quinn on the right 🤓

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Like, Mittelstadt, Rosen, 2024 protected 1st type?

Or Peterka, Savoie, 2023 protected first?

Except Quinn on the right 🤓

Quinn and Peterka have played on their off-wings all season.

[Thorner]

9 minutes ago, dudacek said:

We’re more than halfway through the season and have seen most of what the league has to offer.

Im pretty confident talent is not much of an issue any more except in the crease. We have enough talent - speed and the ability to execute at speed - to keep up with any team in the league.

The issues are mostly consistency, defensive structure and a dab of that abrasive arrogance that defines teams like the Lightning.

Hopefully most of it will come through maturity.

I’m not sure we are “there” on talent, yet. Not if you include defensive ability as part of talent, and why wouldn’t we? Thought it’s often left off. Or lumped into structure. 

A lot of two way play is also natural ability. I think we could say we may have “enough” offensive talent but could perhaps still benefit from defensive talent upgrades, internal or not, and when I say defensive that’s all 3 positions