Krebs needs more time in AHL

[Porous Five Hole]

59 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Honestly Krebs’ future here is in question. With Savoie making this team next season, JJP and Quinn already superior players, and Rosen and Kulich not far behind, where does Krebs fit?

I’d trade him at the deadline or this summer for a D especially if Johnson doesn’t sign.

Things really get interesting when we draft Bedard this summer. 😉

Savoie will be in Rochester next season. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, Porous Five Hole said:

Savoie will be in Rochester next season. 

He can’t. To young.  He’s NHL or back to the WHL.

[Brawndo]

Krebs most common line mates have been Okposo Girgensons, Olofsson, Mittelstadt and Asplund. 

Three of them, along with Krebs have decent defensive metrics none of them are offensive stalwarts.

Krebs has been a playmaker at every level so He should be put given TOI with offensive minded players before any final decisions are made. 
 

BTW He has more even strength points than Mittelstadt 

[nfreeman]

3 hours ago, Porous Five Hole said:

He’s a -4, so let’s not act like he’s Chris Stewart during the tank year. 
 

I know Krebs hasn’t played a ton in the AHL (20 pts in 20 games), but I guess I’m in the minority here.  I don’t think playing in the AHL is going to make him a better player long term. 
 

I see hustle in his game. I see a weak shot. I see vision and playmaking upside, and I see him struggling. But the AHL game isn’t fast enough for AHL reps to be meaningful.  At least to me.  I think he needs to acclimate his game to the NHL tempo rather than using a slower AHL game to translate to being a better long term player.  
If it was a matter of confidence, then yes the AHL would be beneficial. But I don’t think that’s his problem.  I think his problem is he’s a young player and needs the best competition to grow and figure it out. 

I see hustle and signs of a good hockey IQ, but I also see signs of not being able to understand, at the NHL level, when a play is there to be made as opposed to when the defender is almost certain to prevent the play and turn it into a turnover going the other way.  I also have concerns about his hands not being skilled enough to make the plays that his brain tells him to try, or skilled enough to develop into a guy who can shoot and score when the situation indicates.

Generally I agree though with keeping him in Buffalo and seeing whether he can bring his game up to NHL speed and execution.  He's already done so at the AHL level.

 

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Honestly Krebs’ future here is in question. With Savoie making this team next season, JJP and Quinn already superior players, and Rosen and Kulich not far behind, where does Krebs fit?

I’d trade him at the deadline or this summer for a D especially if Johnson doesn’t sign.

Things really get interesting when we draft Bedard this summer. 😉

I don't think they'd get much for Krebs in trade at this point.

 

38 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I have no problem with VO.  He has proven when he is healthy he is a dangerous NHL player.  While when not scoring he may seem 'invisible' to some, this year he hasn't made many major mistakes to cost the team goals.  Over the past couple seasons he has about 1/3 of his goals on the PP, making him a dangerous PP weapon but still pretty good even strength (more than he gets credit for). He has 10 goals in 20 games, a 40 point pace, including PP goals, Even strength goals, and a couple empty net (one to seal the game). I'm getting that for under $5mil per year, I'm good with that.

As far as Krebs, he is playing awful.  However they are choosing to develop him, well they obviously know a lot more than I do. What I do know is when he is on the ice, he rarely is helping this team and often is hurting it.

Totally agree on VO.  He's flawed but he brings a lot to the table, including the most precious commodity in the game.  He could easily score 35 this year and they have him under contract for next year at a good number.  The only reason to trade him this year or next summer is a very compelling package coming back -- not a low 1st-rounder from a playoff team.

[PerreaultForever]

21 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Krebs most common line mates have been Okposo Girgensons, Olofsson, Mittelstadt and Asplund. 

Three of them, along with Krebs have decent defensive metrics none of them are offensive stalwarts.

Krebs has been a playmaker at every level so He should be put given TOI with offensive minded players before any final decisions are made. 
 

BTW He has more even strength points than Mittelstadt 

I disagree with this. I really don't think Krebs is going to make it at the NHL level as an offensive playmaking talent. I think he has IQ and some skill but he needs to accept becoming a role player and develop skills appropriate for that role. In the AHL I'd have him on the PK not the PP and play him in a checking role against top opposition. Develop his face off skills as well. Try to turn him into a solid 2 way. Also hit the weight room regularly.

He's got a temper, he needs to channel it. 

[JohnC]

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

You let me know when olofsson figures it out. 

Olofsson has figured it out. He knows what his assets are and his liabilities. And so does the coaching staff. If he were a second line forward I would be more receptive to your criticism about his limitations. However, he is a third line forward and PP specialist who is currently on a 40 goal pace. What's wrong with that? There's no question that he will not be as good and well-rounded as Quinn or JJ, but as an accomplished shooter and goal scorer he has value. If Olofsson doesn't score 30 goals this season I would be very disappointed. It's more than likely that he will. 

[LGR4GM]

46 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Olofsson has figured it out. He knows what his assets are and his liabilities. And so does the coaching staff. If he were a second line forward I would be more receptive to your criticism about his limitations. However, he is a third line forward and PP specialist who is currently on a 40 goal pace. What's wrong with that? There's no question that he will not be as good and well-rounded as Quinn or JJ, but as an accomplished shooter and goal scorer he has value. If Olofsson doesn't score 30 goals this season I would be very disappointed. It's more than likely that he will. 

I don't think he'll get 30 goals this year. 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't think he'll get 30 goals this year. 

Assuming he stays healthy I think he will. Many of his goals will come from the PP. His ability to score or open it up for other players on the PP is an invaluable asset for the Sabres. I don't particularly care how he scores. A thirty goal scorer is someone you should celebrate, and not be so dismissive of. 

[Curt]

17 hours ago, JohnC said:

Assuming he stays healthy I think he will. Many of his goals will come from the PP. His ability to score or open it up for other players on the PP is an invaluable asset for the Sabres. I don't particularly care how he scores. A thirty goal scorer is someone you should celebrate, and not be so dismissive of. 

If someone’s highest season total is 20 goals, can they still be referred to as a 30 goal scorer?

Edited November 25, 2022 by Curt
Edited for clarity. My fault.

[mjd1001]

I think Krebs liabilities are more in the neutral zone and D-zone than they are up front, but even his production isn't great.  To get a greater 'sample size' than just the first month of this season, I went back and looked at the last 41 games (half season) including this season and the end of last.

Krebs (38 games) 1 goal, 10 assists (2 goal, 20 assist pace over a full season)

Just for fun, some of ther other players '82 game pace' over the last 41 games for the Sabres:

Thompson: 54 goal, 100 point pace

Skinner: 38 goal, 86 point pace

Dahlin (1 missed game):  26 goals, 78 point pace

Olofsson:  38 goals, 66 point pace

Cozens:  12 goals, 44 point pace

Mitts:  18 goals, 50 point pace

Tuch: 28 goal, 70 point pace

 

The magic date used to get 41 games back is all games since March 18, 2022.  Since that date (the last 41 games/half season), Thompson leads the NHL with 27 goals. Thompson (Dal) also has 27 but he has played 2 more games.

Tage has 27, what about the rest of the league since then?  Kaprizov 26, McDavid and  Draisaitl both also with 26, Horvat 25 (but only 9 assists), Stamkos also 25, Matthews Pettersen and Kucherov also 24.

Over that same time period (41 games), Dahlin would be 3rd in the NHL in points among D-men with 39. Only Josi (one more at 40) and Makar (2 more at 41) have more.  In goals from the Blue line, he is tied for the league lead with 13 with Makar and Karlsson

 

Edited November 25, 2022 by mjd1001

[Brawndo]

3 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I disagree with this. I really don't think Krebs is going to make it at the NHL level as an offensive playmaking talent. I think he has IQ and some skill but he needs to accept becoming a role player and develop skills appropriate for that role. In the AHL I'd have him on the PK not the PP and play him in a checking role against top opposition. Develop his face off skills as well. Try to turn him into a solid 2 way. Also hit the weight room regularly.

He's got a temper, he needs to channel it. 

There is only one way to find out.

The Sabres Front Office insisted on Krebs being part of the Eichel Return, put Him in position to succeed. He is already being used in a more defensive role. Asplund-Krebs-Zemgus had very good defensive metrics.

I would move Him to Center on the 3rd Line with Hinostronza and Olofsson or Okposo/Olofsson when KO is back. 

Put Mitts on the 4 Line to minimize His Exposure 5v5, as Zemgus and Asplund could shelter Him. This would allow Mitts to continue to get Special Teams Time, the One Area He is good at 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

If someone’s highest season total is 20 goals, can they still be a 30 goal scorer?

I believe so because he is playing with a better and more offensive-minded team. As I said in a prior post many of his goals will likely come from the PP. He has already scored 10 goals with the Sabres having played around a quarter of the season. I'm confident that he will easily reach the 20 mark and go beyond to around the 30 mark. And it should be noted that last year once his shoulder was fully healed he was scoring at a faster clip. 

[K-9]

10 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

There’s patience and there’s a turnover king who is hurting his team. If he wants to play boom or bust style hockey he needs to refine it elsewhere. 

I thought we were talking about Krebs, not Mittelstadt. 

[Digger]

I can see him getting sent down to Rochester for a while.  I am still high on his overall talent and I don't see an issue with giving him some more time to build strength and put his overall game together.

[Gatorman0519]

Just play him.  We are not competing for a championship anyways. Have to see what he can do.

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, Brawndo said:

There is only one way to find out.

The Sabres Front Office insisted on Krebs being part of the Eichel Return, put Him in position to succeed. He is already being used in a more defensive role. Asplund-Krebs-Zemgus had very good defensive metrics.

I would move Him to Center on the 3rd Line with Hinostronza and Olofsson or Okposo/Olofsson when KO is back. 

Put Mitts on the 4 Line to minimize His Exposure 5v5, as Zemgus and Asplund could shelter Him. This would allow Mitts to continue to get Special Teams Time, the One Area He is good at 

I guess you see more in Krebs than I do. 

I think the Sabres plan is different. This is Mitts year to show or go. He's going to keep getting his chances all season and only then will he be re-evaluated. He's either going to rise to the challenge or eventually be replaced by Savoie or whoever. 

Krebs is younger and time in Rochester isn't going to hurt him. NEXT year will be his year to show or go. 

That's my guess anyway. 

[Curt]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

I believe so because he is playing with a better and more offensive-minded team. As I said in a prior post many of his goals will likely come from the PP. He has already scored 10 goals with the Sabres having played around a quarter of the season. I'm confident that he will easily reach the 20 mark and go beyond to around the 30 mark. And it should be noted that last year once his shoulder was fully healed he was scoring at a faster clip. 

I can understand why you might project, predict, believe that Olofsson will score 30.

Once he’s done it, he’ll be it.

[LGR4GM]

8 hours ago, Curt said:

I can understand why you might project, predict, believe that Olofsson will score 30.

Once he’s done it, he’ll be it.

I'll put the over under for olofsson at 22.5 goals and I'll take the under. 

[Curt]

35 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I'll put the over under for olofsson at 22.5 goals and I'll take the under. 

I’d take the over.

[K-9]

12 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

I think Krebs liabilities are more in the neutral zone and D-zone than they are up front, but even his production isn't great.  To get a greater 'sample size' than just the first month of this season, I went back and looked at the last 41 games (half season) including this season and the end of last.

Krebs (38 games) 1 goal, 10 assists (2 goal, 20 assist pace over a full season)

Just for fun, some of ther other players '82 game pace' over the last 41 games for the Sabres:

Thompson: 54 goal, 100 point pace

Skinner: 38 goal, 86 point pace

Dahlin (1 missed game):  26 goals, 78 point pace

Olofsson:  38 goals, 66 point pace

Cozens:  12 goals, 44 point pace

Mitts:  18 goals, 50 point pace

Tuch: 28 goal, 70 point pace

 

The magic date used to get 41 games back is all games since March 18, 2022.  Since that date (the last 41 games/half season), Thompson leads the NHL with 27 goals. Thompson (Dal) also has 27 but he has played 2 more games.

Tage has 27, what about the rest of the league since then?  Kaprizov 26, McDavid and  Draisaitl both also with 26, Horvat 25 (but only 9 assists), Stamkos also 25, Matthews Pettersen and Kucherov also 24.

Over that same time period (41 games), Dahlin would be 3rd in the NHL in points among D-men with 39. Only Josi (one more at 40) and Makar (2 more at 41) have more.  In goals from the Blue line, he is tied for the league lead with 13 with Makar and Karlsson

 

Darn. Krebs’s two goal explosion against Toronto in the outdoor game just misses the cut by a couple games. 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

I'll put the over under for olofsson at 22.5 goals and I'll take the under. 

I strongly recommend that you don't install the gambling app. You will quickly impoverish yourself. 🧨

[JohnC]

10 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I guess you see more in Krebs than I do. 

I think the Sabres plan is different. This is Mitts year to show or go. He's going to keep getting his chances all season and only then will he be re-evaluated. He's either going to rise to the challenge or eventually be replaced by Savoie or whoever. 

Krebs is younger and time in Rochester isn't going to hurt him. NEXT year will be his year to show or go. 

That's my guess anyway. 

It won't be long before players in the system will be vying with him for his roster spot. But the one advantage he has as a player is that he is also capable of playing on the wing. So even if a player, such as Krebs, eventually supplants him at center, he can still move to the wing and get playing time. In addition, he has value as a player on the second PP unit. 

[jad1]

14 hours ago, Curt said:

If someone’s highest season total is 20 goals, can they still be a 30 goal scorer?

I'll let you know after I check Thompson's career stats (and Tuch's).

[Curt]

20 minutes ago, jad1 said:

I'll let you know after I check Thompson's career stats (and Tuch's).

I don’t understand what you are trying to say here.

[GASabresIUFAN]

14 hours ago, Curt said:

If someone’s highest season total is 20 goals, can they still be a 30 goal scorer?

Of course. It happens often   Reinhart ranged from 17 to 25 his first 6 seasons and then hit 33 last year. TNT had 18 goals for his career for 4 partial seasons  before potting 38 last year.