Jack Quinn is on the verge of something awesome

[Doohicksie]

Who's got two thumbs and is on the NHL's front page this morning?

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

Watch the games....like it or not his defensive positioning in his own zone is an issue.  +/- has a lot to do with who your linemates, are, what role you are playing on the team, usage...and of course the + influences the +/- as much at the minus.

So I'm not sure what point you are trying to make when I say that Cozens is out of position in his own zone a lot. It is true.  Look at the first goal last night...or better yet look at the posts I have made on game nights after watching the replays of the goals.  Like it or not, he is all over the ice in the D-zone.  When Cozens is on the ice, there have been many instances of goals being allowed where the goal scored comes from the center/slot area that he vacated when it wasn't needed.  With Mitts (and Thompson) that isn't the case.

Randomly bringing up a +/- stat does not change that. The highlights/replays are out there, check them out.

Id have to see the heat map of the defensive zone for Mitts and Cozens. Really get a feel for where shots are coming from. I wonder as well if Cozens is more effective at getting the puck out limiting the number of shots where as Mitts sees more because as you say he tends to be in the middle of the ice. 

Edited December 1, 2022 by LGR4GM
spellllllllllllinnnngg

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Id have to see the heat map of the defensive zone for Mitts and Cozens. Really get a feel for where shots are coming from. I wonder as well if Cozens is more effective at getting the puck out limiting the number of shots where as Mitts sees more because as you say he tends to be in the middle of the ice. 

I understand Cozens may get the puck out of the zone better because of his 'aggressiveness' and the Analytic heat map may show that.  But the flip side of that is when he IS in the wrong postion, it tends to be very costly.  Again, I'm not sure what the heat map you are referencing is showing...but what I do feel is that if he would stay in his position better (like Tage or Mitts), less great scoring chances (and goals against) would be the result.

[Drag0nDan]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

I understand Cozens may get the puck out of the zone better because of his 'aggressiveness' and the Analytic heat map may show that.  But the flip side of that is when he IS in the wrong postion, it tends to be very costly.  Again, I'm not sure what the heat map you are referencing is showing...but what I do feel is that if he would stay in his position better (like Tage or Mitts), less great scoring chances (and goals against) would be the result.

I notice it with Tage zone exits sometimes too though - 2 guys going for the puck and neither of them seems to want it.  And i know the answer is they're trying to get open for a pass... it makes sense.  They just occasionally bungle it into a scoring chance against, and good teams don't do that nearly as frequently as buffalo.  It's system, and chemistry.  You vacate a space to do something, assuming your teammate will fill, and they don't.  

Edited December 1, 2022 by Drag0nDan

[DarthEbriate]

@LGR4GM Don't look now, but Quinn is ahead of Jarvis in scoring this season (with 5 games played in hand). I've been especially impressed by his vision and transitions -- he forces defenders to give him space.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

I understand Cozens may get the puck out of the zone better because of his 'aggressiveness' and the Analytic heat map may show that.  But the flip side of that is when he IS in the wrong postion, it tends to be very costly.  Again, I'm not sure what the heat map you are referencing is showing...but what I do feel is that if he would stay in his position better (like Tage or Mitts), less great scoring chances (and goals against) would be the result.

Mitts is bad though. Sure he's in position but what I'm saying is it don't think that's impacting the play enough in a positive way. 

6 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

@LGR4GM Don't look now, but Quinn is ahead of Jarvis in scoring this season (with 5 games played in hand). I've been especially impressed by his vision and transitions -- he forces defenders to give him space.

Somebody say Seth Jarvis?!?!?

[Porous Five Hole]

6 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Well, that is a less terrible comparison, but I have much higher hopes for Quinn (which are starting to ripen into expectations) than Vanek 2.0.  Vanek was talented and could light the lamp, but he was the kind of guy who brought his team down instead of lifting them up.  He was an unpleasantly-natured scoring accessory, not a core guy -- kinda like Evander Kane albeit without the true dirtbag baggage.  I see Quinn as a core guy who will lift up his teammates, never stop working his butt off and definitely never cause a problem.

I’m not saying you’re hating on Vanek, but this does read decidedly negative.  

Can you shed any light on why you feel this way on Vanek? He has become a regular on the after the whistle podcast, and it’s clear he has a good rapport with peters, rivet, and gionta. It seemed he was well liked as a teammate. 
 

I remember him as a core piece (for 50M, you better be). I remember his injury in the playoffs (eff you Boychuk) sunk the series for the Sabres. Leading up to that slash, the Sabres were up 1-0 in the series and I think 2-0 in the game.  They lost their best player. 

[JoeSchmoe]

Replace Quinns name with your Sabrespace name in this thread title and try not to think about it everytime you go to the washroom like JoeSchmoe does.

[inkman]

27 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Replace Quinns name with your Sabrespace name in this thread title and try not to think about it everytime you go to the washroom like JoeSchmoe does.

Might just be you tinkle toes 😎

[inkman]

Haha.  Same move every time. 

Here is the move he uses to set up the other 

 

[Doohicksie]

2 minutes ago, inkman said:

Haha.  Same move every time. 

But was that every shootout?  Or did that just cherry pick the ones where he went in that way?

[triumph_communes]

It’s time to put Quinn on the top line and demote Skinner. 

[Taro T]

5 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

It’s time to put Quinn on the top line and demote Skinner. 

Isn't the idea to get as many lines working as possible?

Why would you pull Quinn off a line that's on fire to presumably help Thompson who is on fire himself?  Expect that move would yield decreased production overall.

[mjd1001]

23 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

Watch the games....like it or not his defensive positioning in his own zone is an issue.  +/- has a lot to do with who your linemates, are, what role you are playing on the team, usage...and of course the + influences the +/- as much at the minus.

So I'm not sure what point you are trying to make when I say that Cozens is out of position in his own zone a lot. It is true.  Look at the first goal last night...or better yet look at the posts I have made on game nights after watching the replays of the goals.  Like it or not, he is all over the ice in the D-zone.  When Cozens is on the ice, there have been many instances of goals being allowed where the goal scored comes from the center/slot area that he vacated when it wasn't needed.  With Mitts (and Thompson) that isn't the case.

Randomly bringing up a +/- stat does not change that. The highlights/replays are out there, check them out.

Just a follow up on Cozens. 

Again, he is playing well overall. I think 90% of his game is great, just his tendency to chace the puck is a problem.

Last night is not as good of an example as other games, but look at both even strength goals (minus the one at the end of the game) that Colorado Scored.  Both goals were scored from the center/Slot. Cozens was the center.  Instead of skating hard to cover the slot/center in the D-zone....he drifts to the side where the puck is with the Sabres had other defenders there, allowing an opposing forward to come to the front of the net with no-one covering him. Again, last night wasn't as bad of an example as other games, but if he can just stop being pulled to the puck like a magnet and instead cover his guy/spot that a center should, both of those goals may not have been scored.

With how he is playing every other aspect of his game, if he can lose that tendency in the D-zone you might be able to say he isn't turning into just a good player, but bordering on a possible great player. BUT he just can't seem to break his desire to chase the puck, or at least go to the side of the ice where the puck is, instead of covering the opposing guy trailing into the zone who is scoring a lot.  He is the center, he really needs to allow the D-men and the wingers take the boards while he covers ANYONE who goes to the center of the ice in front of the net...those guys are open too much when he is out there.

Edited December 2, 2022 by mjd1001

[Mustache of God]

17 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

It’s time to put Quinn on the top line and demote Skinner. 

Skinner is on pace for almost 40 goals and is over a point per game. Why do you think he merits a demotion?

[LGR4GM]

[nfreeman]

This kid is going to be a freaking star.  

[MattPie]

Stick tap to LGR and fancystats on this call. They nailed it.

[Doohicksie]

It's not just that Quinn scores.  It's how he scores.  He makes plays that definitely earn the goal gif

He pulls moves that you just don't see a rookie doing in the NHL.  The power play goal tonight was a great example, baiting the Dman, then toe-dragging the puck back in before snapping off a lazer.  He's just flummoxing.

[shrader]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

This kid is going to be a freaking star.  

I’d say it’s a shame that they didn’t get him the hat trick, but there will be plenty of them by the time he’s done. 

[inkman]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

This kid is going to be a freaking star.  

His lower body agility and control isn’t something I’ve seen very often in hockey.  

[Doohicksie]

3 minutes ago, inkman said:

His lower body agility and control isn’t something I’ve seen very often in hockey.  

And this is your area of expertise, no?

[Pimlach]

I hope Adam’s finds another another Quinn and another JJP between Savoie, Östlund, Kulich, Rosen and the Russians.  
 

We need a 3rd line. 

[LGR4GM]

7 hours ago, Doohickie said:

It's not just that Quinn scores.  It's how he scores.  He makes plays that definitely earn the goal gif

He pulls moves that you just don't see a rookie doing in the NHL.  The power play goal tonight was a great example, baiting the Dman, then toe-dragging the puck back in before snapping off a lazer.  He's just flummoxing.

Quinn does something very important, he creates the space he needs or teammates need. It's an elite level quality I hope continues to develop. 

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Quinn does something very important, he creates the space he needs or teammates need. It's an elite level quality I hope continues to develop. 

Both goals last night and the shootout goal against Detroit were all elite level moves: 

• The shootout was an extreme maneuver that you see few players even attempt, and now that he's done it he can use that to leverage other approaches.
• The powerplay goal last night featured maneuvering in traffic and a quick release.  On the Sabres  besides him I think only Tage Thompson and Jeff Skinner are even capable of doing that.
• The rush goal was a perfectly placed shot taken while skating full speed to get up into the play.

We could go through the rest of his goals and probably at least half of them display a skill or tactic you just don't see many other players attempt and just makes you jump out of your seat.  And it doesn't come out of nowhere; the various videos of Jack attempting the same maneuver going back to prospect camp shows that he spends time on this kind of stuff.