Make a trade

[Refuting]

Lol @ Contempt 

[Curt]

1 hour ago, Toilet_Mop said:

If we had gotten McDavid you'd be singing a different tune 

If……

You sound like someone who is done with if’s and maybe’s.  The Sabres didn’t get McDavid.  Murray failed spectacularly.

[Refuting]

2 minutes ago, Curt said:

If……

You sound like someone who is done with if’s and maybe’s.  The Sabres didn’t get McDavid.  Murray failed spectacularly.

Yes he did. I just found his brand entertaining 

Definitely not done with ifs and maybes. The is the right plan, the full rebuild. I just don't see why you couldn't make a trade. I still think the current team can turn it around 

This was to be more of a hypothetical thread anyway 

[Curt]

5 hours ago, Toilet_Mop said:

I think it's time. We have an exorbitant amount of prospects, players and 5'10 wingers who are all the same. 

I get the long term approach, but how many picks do you really need to acquire? Tim Murray did it backwards he traded everything like a madman which was highly entertaining but in the end, he was a crazy man. I give him credit for trying to win RIGHT NOW but he had to go. Still not sure why he traded Neuvirth. But to make no trades at all, and to only trade for picks and prospects is clearly not working. 

I don't dislike Granato or Adams. A full and complete rebuild is the right idea, which is what they're doing. Hope is great, and apart of hockey, but you can't sell hope forever. 

It's clear we need something to shake this roster up a bit, nothing insane, but something. I would take insane though. Nothing would make me happier than to acquire a Shane Doan type. So let's hear your best trade ideas, heck even the somewhat crazy ones. A trade would get this place AMPED and rightfully so. 

I would trade two firsts Mittlestadt and Jokiharu for Bo Horvat and if they wanted a bit more, do it 

MAKE A TRADE ADAMS 

You say that a full and complete rebuild is what was needed, but you seem to be be out of patience for it after one season and 15 games of the rebuild.  Full and complete rebuilds generally take a smidge longer than that before they result in a playoff team.

[Refuting]

1 minute ago, Curt said:

You say that a full and complete rebuild is what was needed, but you seem to be be out of patience for it after one season and 15 games of the rebuild.  Full and complete rebuilds generally take a smidge longer than that before they result in a playoff team.

Lol I'm not out of patience I wouldn't mind seeing a trade though. A trade is what landed us Thompson, and NOBODY thought that was good trade 

I fully understand what a rebuild entails 

[Curt]

8 minutes ago, Curt said:

You say that a full and complete rebuild is what was needed, but you seem to be be out of patience for it after one season and 15 games of the rebuild.  Full and complete rebuilds generally take a smidge longer than that before they result in a playoff team.

 

9 minutes ago, Toilet_Mop said:

Yes he did. I just found his brand entertaining 

Definitely not done with ifs and maybes. The is the right plan, the full rebuild. I just don't see why you couldn't make a trade. I still think the current team can turn it around 

This was to be more of a hypothetical thread anyway 

Sorry, didn’t mean to be harsh.

Im sure at some point there will be a trade from among the forward ranks.  There are just too many players for the long term.  They will need to consolidate or swap for D.  I think they want the young forwards to separate themselves and basically show them who deserves to stick around for years to come.  I’m not sold on Krebs and Mitts yet.  Very early for Quinn and Peterka, but I’m hopeful.  Cozens and Asplund I believe are here for the longer haul.

Im not sure where exactly management thinks these guys fit.  It’s an unlikely time of year for a trade though.  Seems like 90% of NHL trades happen within 2 weeks of either the deadline or the draft.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Curt

[Refuting]

12 minutes ago, Curt said:

 

Sorry, didn’t mean to be harsh.

Im sure at some point there will be a trade from among the forward ranks.  There are just too many players for the long term.  They will need to consolidate or swap for D.  I think they want the young forwards to separate themselves and basically show them who deserves to stick around for years to come.  I’m not sold on Krebs and Mitts yet.  Very early for Quinn and Peterka, but I’m hopeful.  Cozens and Asplund I believe are here for the longer haul.

Im not sure where exactly management thinks these guys fit.  It’s an unlikely time of year for a trade though.  Seems like 90% of NHL trades happen within 2 weeks of either the deadline or the draft.

Agreed 

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Toilet_Mop said:

Lol I'm not out of patience I wouldn't mind seeing a trade though. A trade is what landed us Thompson, and NOBODY thought that was good trade 

I fully understand what a rebuild entails 

Wait, the Sabres can make a trade of a 1st liner today to get a guy that'll be a 1st liner 4 years from now?  Where do we sign up?

[Andrew Amerk]

3 hours ago, Broken Ankles said:

Corey Pronman of the Athletic just ranked the Sabres with the absolute best prospect pool in all the NHL.   Under 22 years.  So while our team may be struggling, there is unanimous sentiment that the prospects are well above average. 

Yes, but we have also been down this road before. 

Didn’t he say the Sabres had the top prospect pool like 5 years ago, around the Bailey and Baptiste time? Or the Grigorenko and Zadorov time? Rasmus and Zemgus, then Samson and John?

[Refuting]

9 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Wait, the Sabres can make a trade of a 1st liner today to get a guy that'll be a 1st liner 4 years from now?  Where do we sign up?

Literal much? 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, Curt said:

If……

You sound like someone who is done with if’s and maybe’s.  The Sabres didn’t get McDavid.  Murray failed spectacularly.

He definitely did. Big time. But you know, at the time, I remember most people thought his plan was good at first. ROR was supposed to be a game changing 2 way 2C with McDavid (or Eichel, they were both supposed to be "generational") as the scoring 1C. It was supposed to be a Gretzky-Messier equivalent and many thought it was. Kane was supposed to be happy to be out of Winnipeg and would blossom into the ultimate sniper power forward he was supposed to be potting multi goals off McDavid/Eichel's passes. Bogo was supposed to have added tough D and Lehner was going to be the future goalie (which he sort of became for a bit, we just didn't know he had so many "issues"). A lot of it made sense at the time and it's kind of amazing how spectacularly it all went wrong. 

[Refuting]

25 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

He definitely did. Big time. But you know, at the time, I remember most people thought his plan was good at first. ROR was supposed to be a game changing 2 way 2C with McDavid (or Eichel, they were both supposed to be "generational") as the scoring 1C. It was supposed to be a Gretzky-Messier equivalent and many thought it was. Kane was supposed to be happy to be out of Winnipeg and would blossom into the ultimate sniper power forward he was supposed to be potting multi goals off McDavid/Eichel's passes. Bogo was supposed to have added tough D and Lehner was going to be the future goalie (which he sort of became for a bit, we just didn't know he had so many "issues"). A lot of it made sense at the time and it's kind of amazing how spectacularly it all went wrong. 

The plan was good it just didn't work out. Getting Kane and Bogosian for Stafford and Myers was a great trade. Stafford and Myers each had one great year then fell apart. Kane was disgruntled but very talented. Bogosian was not as good as he should have been but was tough as nails 

The O'Reilly trade was great only ended up trading spare parts for him 

Miller was aging and we got Halak who pulled a Slava Kozlov unfortunately. I was super pumped about that trade 

All the players he traded for got better when they left. Murray couldn't have known that Kane, Eichel and O'Reilly would be whiners who needed the spotlight. That was the down fall. Our "leaders" were all giant whiners 

The only thing I really didn't like was the losing on purpose. That's pretty much the weakest thing you can tell your team to do, and the players certainly didn't like it. Got worse after the fans got behind it. I believe it was Mike Weber who said he couldn't believe that the fans were okay with losing. He stunk but I agree 

Murray tried and failed. It was entertaining. It made sense at the time. Oh well 

[LGR4GM]

6 hours ago, Curt said:

You say that a full and complete rebuild is what was needed, but you seem to be be out of patience for it after one season and 15 games of the rebuild.  Full and complete rebuilds generally take a smidge longer than that before they result in a playoff team.

If we had done a full rebuild in 2015, by 2019 we would have been playoff bound. 

[Curt]

5 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

He definitely did. Big time. But you know, at the time, I remember most people thought his plan was good at first. ROR was supposed to be a game changing 2 way 2C with McDavid (or Eichel, they were both supposed to be "generational") as the scoring 1C. It was supposed to be a Gretzky-Messier equivalent and many thought it was. Kane was supposed to be happy to be out of Winnipeg and would blossom into the ultimate sniper power forward he was supposed to be potting multi goals off McDavid/Eichel's passes. Bogo was supposed to have added tough D and Lehner was going to be the future goalie (which he sort of became for a bit, we just didn't know he had so many "issues"). A lot of it made sense at the time and it's kind of amazing how spectacularly it all went wrong. 

Murray had some hits and misses.

His ROR trade was great.  Some other trades looked good on paper, but Murray’s big downfall was that he ignored a lot of off ice/character issues.  He knew Lehner as well as anyone, being the AGM in Ottawa previously.  It’s now pretty well documented that Kane and Bogosian were not a good influence in a young locker room.  Cal O’Reilly was bullying (or whatever) the team’s top prospect down in the AHL.  The result was a fractured team that couldn’t get on the same page.

It’s ok for fans to say “that it looked good on paper “ or “how could we have known “ that these guys would have had issues, but that doesn’t fly for Murray.  As the GM, it was his job to know/find out these things.  He built a team on paper, but not in the locker room.

@Toilet_Mop this covers your reply as well.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Curt

[SwampD]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

If we had done a full rebuild in 2015, by 2019 we would have been playoff bound. 

I would have preferred to start it a couple of years earlier.

[#freejame]

10 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I would have preferred to start it a couple of years earlier.

The appropriate time to start the rebuild was the lockout/Mackinnon year ala Colorado

[Taro T]

7 hours ago, Toilet_Mop said:

Literal much? 

Is that not what that great trade ended up?  (Realizing Johnson or the 2nd round draft pick he turns into could still be something 7+ years after that great trade.)

What a great trade.  Sign us up for another just like it.  Tuch can be Okposo; not sure who is Girgensons in that scenario, maybe Cozens?  D-men hit their prime later than F's, so Dahlin will still be a stud provided he hasn't lost his "love of the game."  Adams & Granato become the next Regier & Ruff as you have to wait for the current prospects to develop before evaluating them, right?

[Pimlach]

11 hours ago, Toilet_Mop said:

Who is Terry Murray 

Should have said Tim Murray.  Terry is his Uncle. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

13 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

My God is this one of the most lopsided poorly constructed trades ever listed on the forum. 

This is funny coming from the great trade proposer of our youth.

 

[SwampD]

1 hour ago, #freejame said:

The appropriate time to start the rebuild was the lockout/Mackinnon year ala Colorado

No. Way earlier. Say, 2013. Imagine if we just rebuilt and never Tanked. What a concept?!

[#freejame]

2 minutes ago, SwampD said:

No. Way earlier. Say, 2013. Imagine if we just rebuilt and never Tanked. What a concept?!

You’re basically describing Colorado. Mackinnon was drafted in 2013 after a 48 game season. We’re saying the same thing. We should have used the shortened season to kickstart out rebuild. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

If I were KA I would not make a trade now.  It smacks of desperation.  And he has said that he has his plan and he will be sticking with it.

[SwampD]

9 minutes ago, #freejame said:

You’re basically describing Colorado. Mackinnon was drafted in 2013 after a 48 game season. We’re saying the same thing. We should have used the shortened season to kickstart out rebuild. 

Yes. Sorry. You are absolutely correct. My coffee hasn’t kicked in yet.

[Pimlach]

6 hours ago, Toilet_Mop said:

The plan was good it just didn't work out. Getting Kane and Bogosian for Stafford and Myers was a great trade. Stafford and Myers each had one great year then fell apart. Kane was disgruntled but very talented. Bogosian was not as good as he should have been but was tough as nails 

The O'Reilly trade was great only ended up trading spare parts for him 

Miller was aging and we got Halak who pulled a Slava Kozlov unfortunately. I was super pumped about that trade 

All the players he traded for got better when they left. Murray couldn't have known that Kane, Eichel and O'Reilly would be whiners who needed the spotlight. That was the down fall. Our "leaders" were all giant whiners 

The only thing I really didn't like was the losing on purpose. That's pretty much the weakest thing you can tell your team to do, and the players certainly didn't like it. Got worse after the fans got behind it. I believe it was Mike Weber who said he couldn't believe that the fans were okay with losing. He stunk but I agree 

Murray tried and failed. It was entertaining. It made sense at the time. Oh well 

You seem to think that reckless and impatient is entertaining.  Did you ever think that sorting through all the personality issues that you noted are actually part of the job of the GM?   He is paid to know what he is getting and bringing into the team.  Especially a team with no established leaders. 
 

Murray tore it down, collected assets, and then traded them for a group of underperforming and troubled misfits.  He stripped the farm system down to nothing and he left a very thin prospect pool for all his wheeling and dealing. His team consisted of factions that didn’t get along and that didn’t work together.   He helped to make a bad culture worse. 

No one in the NHL was offered Murray a position since his glorious rebuild of the Sabres.  But you can go ahead and be entertained.  

[Pimlach]

7 hours ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

If I were KA I would not make a trade now.  It smacks of desperation.  And he has said that he has his plan and he will be sticking with it.

If I am Adams I am ALWAYS listening for trades and opportunities to improve the team.  The store is open.
 

 You need a plan but you can’t just assume that everything fits on your plans exact timeline.  Opportunities should be taken if they fit the plan and budget (cap). 

Edited November 19, 2022 by Pimlach