What is this team is missing to compete consistently?

[GASabresIUFAN]

FYI: The Sabres are on pace to score 300 goals this season.  Even in the 5 game losing streak they scored 3 or more in 3 of the 5 games.  The offense, while far from perfect, isn’t really the problem. They only score 232 last season.

They are also in pace to give up 290 goals against.  This would be the same as last year despite adding Comrie and Lyubushkin.  

[Indabuff]

1 hour ago, Buffalonill said:

Its not that easy players like that just dont become available. 

 

 

Don't we have tons of money?  I thought KA signed everyone for 750k.   

[Contempt]

2 defenders that defend, a goaltender, a center, and a winger. Probably a coach if I'm honest.

[Contempt]

18 minutes ago, Indabuff said:

Don't we have tons of money?  I thought KA signed everyone for 750k.   

We have a silly amount of money and the cap is set to explode so the time to weaponize it is now. This season. BEFORE the cap explodes, giving everyone relief from their bad decisions.

It won't happen though. We've been waxing poetic about weaponizing cap space for a while now and it seems clear that either Kevyn or Terrence don't want to.

[OverPowerYou]

1 hour ago, Buffalonill said:

Its not that easy players like that just dont become available. 

 

 

We have had way too many 1st round picks in the last 3-4 years. We can’t have a team full of 23 year old prospects 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Agree completely w/ point 1 and to large extent w/ point 2.

And it may make people feel better getting the rants off their chests, but at this point it's very unlikely any moves get made as nobody is selling cheap at this point of the season.  Those additional moves so many of us hoped to see needed to happen this summer.  Hoping Adams finds a Botterill to give the Sabres a Scandella for a 4th, but doubt that trade is there.

The F depth has been fine to date.  The D depth, while lacking the extra top 4 D man so many of us hoped to see (they needed to bring in 2 guys, really curious if they misjudged Pilut's ability & thought they'd found that 2nd guy by bringing him back; doubt it, but still am curious), SHOULDN'T be losing 3 guys all Jokiharju's age or younger - those guys just stay healthy in general & bounce back quick.  Unfortunately 2 of them got head injuries which you can't really do a whole lot more to prevent & the other had his knee twist awkwardly on a routine play.  Lyubushkin could've been expected to have his injury issues - combo of the way he plays & his age, but really don't see how it could/should be expected to have 4 of the top 5 all miss time 15% of the way into the season.

The good news is, once the D gets healthy, we shouldn't expect to see 3 key guys all out at the same time.  The bad news is, the F's are due for some nick ups keeping guys out here or there and there is absolutely no tangible depth beyond the 2 goalies that are on the big squad.

Fair, but the lack of depth on forwards hasn't been tested as they are pretty much healthy. Where is this team however if Thompson or Cozens goes down? or Tuch? What's left and who fills that void Sheahan? I think not. 

We've had at least 3 chances to snap up Reilly. Is he great? No. Is he as good as Jokiharju, probably. Maybe better. So why not? I get it with 1 injury, don't grab that salary burden but with 3? Seems like a "don't spend any money" move to me. 

As for all those D injuries at once, it happens. Last year at one point the Bruins were down 4 or 5 starters on D. This year they've been down 4 and one of them was the top guy. Good teams have depth. I don't expect us to match that level of depth, but at least something closer. Guys we've ditched and cast off as useless are currently playing in this league. Mostly for teams doing better than us. Surely we could have kept a few of them around. 

[thewookie1]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I agree with the Sabres general philosophy.  I’m not talking about bringing in some to play over core guys, I’m talking about depth and leadership.  I’m talking about having a Vinnie Hinostroza quality 7th and 8th D who has playoff experience instead of AHL quality players like Fitz and Pilut.  I’m talking about making sure the gap between the 4th D and the 7th D in quality isn’t the Grand Canyon like it is right now.  

Are you saying KA needs to grow a pair?

But that in lies the issue. Whereas when we were playing Pilut, Clague, and Fitzgerald as part of our Top 6, a guy like Schenn would of been a great depth piece. The issue is where does he go while everyone is healthy? He, like Mike Reilly doesn’t want to go to the AHL. And when we’d be fully healthy he’d be our 7/8 automatically due to his age and lack of long term usefulness. It becomes even worse if he outplayed Bryson as it places Granato in an unwinnable position. Do you play Bryson whom you want to see if he can grow into something or a slightly better vet which has  little value outside of the immediate time. If Granato preaches best play = playing time then he’d be left either being a liar or stunting growth. 
 

I don’t think our depth is money driven but rather who would be willing to play in Rochester primarily unless needed and would raise a tantrum over it. That is literally why Pysyk signed with Detroit; he was penciled in to play 6/7. With us adding Bush, we would of only been able to offer him 8/Rochester in order to protect Fitzgerald from being claimed by New Jersey. 

[Eleven]

It's still a goaltender. 

[Taro T]

17 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Fair, but the lack of depth on forwards hasn't been tested as they are pretty much healthy. Where is this team however if Thompson or Cozens goes down? or Tuch? What's left and who fills that void Sheahan? I think not. 

We've had at least 3 chances to snap up Reilly. Is he great? No. Is he as good as Jokiharju, probably. Maybe better. So why not? I get it with 1 injury, don't grab that salary burden but with 3? Seems like a "don't spend any money" move to me. 

As for all those D injuries at once, it happens. Last year at one point the Bruins were down 4 or 5 starters on D. This year they've been down 4 and one of them was the top guy. Good teams have depth. I don't expect us to match that level of depth, but at least something closer. Guys we've ditched and cast off as useless are currently playing in this league. Mostly for teams doing better than us. Surely we could have kept a few of them around. 

Don't know the answer to your 1st set of Q's.  And pointed out in the post you referred to that the luck up front won't last forever.  They're due to have some guys get dinged up.

And, yes, a bunch of injuries at one position do tend to happen to everybody at points later in the season.  But not usually all right out of the gate.  They typically accumulate over time, but this is '06 playoff-esque.

[Pimlach]

1.   A legit #1 NHL goalie 

2.  A legit 1B or #2 Center  (don't tell me Cozens will be it, he is not it yet and is a few years away) 

3.  Grizzled veteran help on Defense, someone smart and solid to help all the kids 

4.  A high energy 4th line forward with some fight in him (so that Tage and Cozens and Dahlin do not have to break their hands) 

Experience.  Tuch has 66 playoff games, Kyle has 24, Luby has 7, and Hinnestroza has 8.  That is it.  

 

We can wait for Levi, Cozens, Savioe, Quinn, and who knows who else to emerge and that will take years.    Or we can get some veteran help and make these kids beat them out for NHL jobs.  

 

[Refuting]

17 minutes ago, Eleven said:

It's still a goaltender. 

Doesn't matter who's in net if you're constantly giving up odd man rushes 

[GASabresIUFAN]

17 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

But that in lies the issue. Whereas when we were playing Pilut, Clague, and Fitzgerald as part of our Top 6, a guy like Schenn would of been a great depth piece. The issue is where does he go while everyone is healthy? He, like Mike Reilly doesn’t want to go to the AHL. And when we’d be fully healthy he’d be our 7/8 automatically due to his age and lack of long term usefulness. It becomes even worse if he outplayed Bryson as it places Granato in an unwinnable position. Do you play Bryson whom you want to see if he can grow into something or a slightly better vet which has  little value outside of the immediate time. If Granato preaches best play = playing time then he’d be left either being a liar or stunting growth. 
 

I don’t think our depth is money driven but rather who would be willing to play in Rochester primarily unless needed and would raise a tantrum over it. That is literally why Pysyk signed with Detroit; he was penciled in to play 6/7. With us adding Bush, we would of only been able to offer him 8/Rochester in order to protect Fitzgerald from being claimed by New Jersey. 

Long term we are committed to 3 D, Samuelsson, Power and Dahlin.  The others are expendable.  If Schenn outplays Bryson that confirms that Bryson is expendable. 11 D played for the Sabres last year, 9 played 36 or more games.  Even on good teams, such as 2006/7 team, we played 11 D with 7 playing 47 games or more.  The role of 7th D is an important one.  Like with Vinnie, DG would rotate the 7th D in if everyone was healthy and he’d get significant PT regardless as history shows. 

[Buffalonill]

1 hour ago, OverPowerYou said:

We have had way too many 1st round picks in the last 3-4 years. We can’t have a team full of 23 year old prospects 

I understand what you mean but who would be available 

[SwampD]

Grownups.

Our most talented players right now are puppies.

[Digger]

Instead of turning back the clocks at this time of year we need them to flip the calendar forward by a couple of months.  They seem to play their best hockey once they are almost guaranteed to be out of the playoffs.  How much does psychology play a role for this perennial losing team?  

In the off season we expected one of Mittlestadt or Cozens to take a big step into the #2 center role this season.  I'm not willing to give up on either yet but the opportunity is there for one of them to take it. 

Defensive depth.  Healthy the top 6 doesn't look bad but injuries sure show weakness in the depth.

Goaltending.  Common theme, year over year.  Will Comrie convince us soon that he's ready for a bigger role.  I heard someone mention him and Carter Hutton in the same sentence recently (hope not................but let's check his eyesight just in case).

[LGR4GM]

Experience. 

[pi2000]

They're just not there yet, set expectations accordingly. 

[Zamboni]

What is this title missing, to be grammatically correct? 😂

 

I think it’s simply missing experience and better goaltending. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

49 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

They're just not there yet, set expectations accordingly. 

The team is on pace for 300 GF.  They are more then ready. 

KA’s job is to fix the D and goaltending to support the offense.  He has 3/6 of his D group and 50% of the goaltending.  It’s time for KA to step up. 

[PerreaultForever]

32 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The team is on pace for 300 GF.  They are more then ready. 

KA’s job is to fix the D and goaltending to support the offense.  He has 3/6 of his D group and 50% of the goaltending.  It’s time for KA to step up. 

I think they're building it backwards. They are focused on the offense (perhaps the belief that it will provide more entertainment value and fill seats faster) and seem content to wait for Power to develop and to get Levi (?) or one of the others in goal. It'll take years. 

I've always believed and said here you start with goal and move out to D and add the offensive talent after you've built a tough hard to play against culture. maybe I get that belief from watching the Bruins. maybe it's because of Hasek idk. Just seems the right way to me. 

[Porous Five Hole]

25 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I think they're building it backwards. They are focused on the offense (perhaps the belief that it will provide more entertainment value and fill seats faster) and seem content to wait for Power to develop and to get Levi (?) or one of the others in goal. It'll take years. 

I've always believed and said here you start with goal and move out to D and add the offensive talent after you've built a tough hard to play against culture. maybe I get that belief from watching the Bruins. maybe it's because of Hasek idk. Just seems the right way to me. 

You’re right that Buffalo doesn’t have a clear plan toward good goaltending in the NHL soon, but I’ll take the top-end forward talent the team has drafted along with two #1 overall defenseman. Acquiring skill and goal scoring (to me) is the hardest thing to do. And there are many ways to be hard to play against…which includes being elite offensively and relentless on the puck.  
 

My opinion is that things have changed since building from the crease out. Goaltending is too hard to predict and a certain threshold of Goals Forward is required to be a playoff team.  Goals are still hard to come by. 
 

While the path toward top-flight goaltending isn’t clear today, and waiting for Levi seems to be too long-term and unknown to count on, it doesn’t mean that’s the only path forward.
 

We all want the Sabres to be great asap, but it was never the plan for the team to be in the Stanley Cup final this year. And quite honestly, the Sabres may not have a short-to-medium plan for the crease right now…but that’s OK.  The current goaltending contracts are all short term to this point. The Sabres have tons of assets to make a move over the summer if this team proves ready for the next step.  
 

 

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, Porous Five Hole said:

You’re right that Buffalo doesn’t have a clear plan toward good goaltending in the NHL soon, but I’ll take the top-end forward talent the team has drafted along with two #1 overall defenseman. Acquiring skill and goal scoring (to me) is the hardest thing to do. And there are many ways to be hard to play against…which includes being elite offensively and relentless on the puck.  
 

My opinion is that things have changed since building from the crease out. Goaltending is too hard to predict and a certain threshold of Goals Forward is required to be a playoff team.  Goals are still hard to come by. 
 

While the path toward top-flight goaltending isn’t clear today, and waiting for Levi seems to be too long-term and unknown to count on, it doesn’t mean that’s the only path forward.
 

We all want the Sabres to be great asap, but it was never the plan for the team to be in the Stanley Cup final this year. And quite honestly, the Sabres may not have a short-to-medium plan for the crease right now…but that’s OK.  The current goaltending contracts are all short term to this point. The Sabres have tons of assets to make a move over the summer if this team proves ready for the next step.  
 

 

It's actually not that hard to do when you finish at or near the bottom of the league every year and draft in the top group, and when you trade the top players you already had for even more top picks it's even easier. or it should be. 

in a few years we will be able to draw up comparison charts of who we drafted and who we didn't. Only then will we know how many Nylander's (8th pick in 2016) and how many Thompson's (26th pick in 2016) we got. 

So maybe for you it's OK, but for me it's not. It's no longer OK to lose all the time and wait for "next year". 

[steveoath]

Fix the Goaltending

Fix the Depth on D

Fix the powerplay

[Berg]

16 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Well there are a number of things wrong but the lack of production by multiple people is certainly contributing. 

1) the slow build plan is their plan but it didn't need to be this slow imo and more should have been done to fill holes on the roster - we beat that discussion to a pulp in the summer and going into the season though. Opportunity missed imo but you don't win with an all rookie team. 

2) There is no depth. 

3) It's not a balanced team and lacks identity. Okay so we are the fast attacking team maybe but only part of the roster can play that way itself. There's simply too many rookies and you get multiple struggling rookies at once (and by rookie you can include the not quite there yet types who are a few years in)

4) Skinner

5) Skinner's contract

6) KO as captain. Is it working? I think not. 

7) desire and a winning culture. It's slipping away. I can see it each game little by little. The blank looks, the lack of emotion. They're getting used to it AGAIN. 

I could go on and rant all day but that's enough. Most of this team is just there, nothing else, and they just lack. 

 

4, 5, 6 - our 100% mistakes. I agree to pay 9 millions for a good goalie, but not to such a weak forward..

[JohnC]

17 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That's the problem.  It doesn't have to be this way.  KA could have and should have brought in someone with winning experience on the blueline to help accelerate the development of the kids.  Someone like Schenn or Stralman on the cheap side for example.  In fact, I'd be contacting Van about Schenn and Bos about Stralman today.  

KA only brought in Lyubushkin to bolster the blue line. He had a strategy of going with the young defenders and allowing them to play significant minutes. There was nothing secret about his intentions about how he was going to build the roster and grow with them. That's exactly the same formula he is taking with the rest of the roster, the forward lines filled with young players. It's unlikely, at least for the first half of the season, that he is going to resort to bringing in marginal veteran players to take the place of the youngsters. 

There is no question that this team lacks depth. But that shouldn't be a surprise for any roster that is being rebuilt. That's an inevitable characteristic of any team going through this process i.e. the roster is incomplete and thin to begin with. KA and DG have been open and explicit about their strategy to rework this roster. Developing players is at the heart of it. It certainly can at times be an excruciating and exasperating to witness. 

I understand your frustration and impatience with this front office. But the course of action has been set and it is being followed. If you look at this team's record it is about where it should be. As @Taro Tand some others have astutely pointed out the Sabres have played a number of top tier teams. For the most part, although the outcomes have been disappointing, this team has not been outclassed. You need to be more patient.