GDT: Chicago at Buffalo, 10/29/22, 7pm, MSG, WGR, and your favorite illegal streaming option.

[LTS]

21 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

I'm not sure what games early in the year you were watching. Their defensive positioning in their own end was miles beyond where it was any time in the last decade.

 

Very few people were standing alone at the side of the net or wide open hanging out coming down the slot.

Hasn't been as good the last few games down Joker and Samuelsson but to act like they were running around in their own end the first few games is simply disingenuous and actually quite comical.

Yeah, maybe I'm just crazy and imagined Comrie winning two games where the team gave up over 40 shots. Florida? 37 shots.  The Kraken only had 24 and the Sabres let up 5 because of their D zone coverage among other things.

From what I've seen, in 6 of their 8 games so far they've demonstrated issues in their defensive zone.  The biggest difference in the Calgary and Edmonton games was that they could get out of their zone easier because neither team was playing a shutdown game.

And the loss of Samuelsson is big.  But the players on the ice still need to be better.

It's unfortunate you think I am being disingenuous. I guess I'll stop attempting to have a conversation and provide supporting information for what I am saying. Perhaps you are the sunshine and sparkles crowd that was referred to.

 

Edited October 30, 2022 by LTS

[K-9]

59 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

You look at the Chicago goals and they were the result of not clearing the front of the net, something that Boosh and Muel excel at.  I think we need Clague and Fitz and yes, Power, to pay more attention to that.

Marty made a great point on (I believe) Chicago’s second goal and that was that when our D man went out to cover the man with the puck, it was Thomspon’s responsibility to drop down and take the guy in front of the net, but Tage went to cover the guy in the slot instead. I appreciated the point Biron made because it helps explain it’s not always on the D man leaving guys uncovered in front of the net. 

[Andrew Amerk]

2 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Dunleavy's call was so corny...

 

Olafsson with a T.K.Overtime goal...

I’ll allow it. 

[Doohicksie]

Regarding his first goal:

 

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, matter2003 said:

All 3 of the Blackhawk goals were from like a foot in front of the net and the first two were from scrambles in front of the net.

Indeed, an area we have struggled in for years now and still are. Fitz was in the right spot and trying but he was outnumbered. Too many players stay on the outside and try to make stick plays and simply aren't physical enough. Pilut was useless in this regard. 

[Doohicksie]

I thought Fitz had his best game as a Sabre tonight.

[thewookie1]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

Indeed, an area we have struggled in for years now and still are. Fitz was in the right spot and trying but he was outnumbered. Too many players stay on the outside and try to make stick plays and simply aren't physical enough. Pilut was useless in this regard. 

At very least 2 of the 3 injured guys do actually clear out the net front usually.

Dahlin has also learned how to dish out some pain behind the net.

[triumph_communes]

Anderson played great. We’re only in these games because of good goaltending.  Chicagos goaltending was stellar yeesh

 

Tage is back. Slow start to the season sure, but he’s battling and defenders can’t do anything about his reach when he’s moving his feet.

 

Oloffson has a shot. Needs to play 4th line with Girgensons/Okposo though, he’s killing any rookie he plays with. People put him up in trade talks because he has real value, an elite shot, but is a luxury a team like ours could use the value elsewhere.

 

Like our struggling defense. No physicality when all our physical defenseman are out. Nearly lost this game solely to this reason on junk goals. Power is a train wreck out there with no defenseman setting the tone for him. I get that he has potential, but he’s two years from it at least.  This is mostly an injury problem. 
 

Krebs is a disaster and needs the AHL. Giveaway giveaway giveaway doesn’t make up for one out of ten bonehead giveaways being a completed pass. He will always be this player but his odds can increase with experience gained down low, not destroying this teams chances. He’s a year or two out.  Id rather be icing Sheahan right now.  
 

Asplund is needed. With our defensive defenseman out how can you justify sitting him?  I’m losing respect for Granato he did exactly what he never should have done with the non merit based benching protocol. 
 

Glad they bounced back that Chicago team was bad. Even when we skated slow we were outplaying them, just lost the bounces. This team still has consistency issues and needs to figure that out if they’re going to make it through the season with a fighting chance. 

[Cascade Youth]

Couple of points I’ll add (did not see the third bc of streaming issues):

Quinn looked way more lively and engaged.  He’s a slow starter as we know but maybe the lightbulb is going on.

Dahlin has been the best player on the ice most games this season.

Why are they so bad at faceoffs?  Amazing they had such a big shot advantage with such a big face off disadvantage.

[LGR4GM]

7 hours ago, LTS said:

Yeah, maybe I'm just crazy and imagined Comrie winning two games where the team gave up over 40 shots. Florida? 37 shots.  The Kraken only had 24 and the Sabres let up 5 because of their D zone coverage among other things.

From what I've seen, in 6 of their 8 games so far they've demonstrated issues in their defensive zone.  The biggest difference in the Calgary and Edmonton games was that they could get out of their zone easier because neither team was playing a shutdown game.

And the loss of Samuelsson is big.  But the players on the ice still need to be better.

It's unfortunate you think I am being disingenuous. I guess I'll stop attempting to have a conversation and provide supporting information for what I am saying. Perhaps you are the sunshine and sparkles crowd that was referred to.

 

I'd agree they have defensive issues but that's not what lost us the Montreal game. Buffalo needs to carry the puck more and we've seen that start to happen. 

Last night is a perfect example of what this team needs to consistently to, go to the net. 

Edited October 30, 2022 by LGR4GM

[Stoner]

Positivity!

Lol.

[SwampD]

10 hours ago, LTS said:

Yeah, maybe I'm just crazy and imagined Comrie winning two games where the team gave up over 40 shots. Florida? 37 shots.  The Kraken only had 24 and the Sabres let up 5 because of their D zone coverage among other things.

From what I've seen, in 6 of their 8 games so far they've demonstrated issues in their defensive zone.  The biggest difference in the Calgary and Edmonton games was that they could get out of their zone easier because neither team was playing a shutdown game.

And the loss of Samuelsson is big.  But the players on the ice still need to be better.

It's unfortunate you think I am being disingenuous. I guess I'll stop attempting to have a conversation and provide supporting information for what I am saying. Perhaps you are the sunshine and sparkles crowd that was referred to.

 

We commented on it during those games. Yes, Comerie made saves, but he certainly didn’t win those games on his own. There was always a defender or other Sabre there to make sure there was no chance at a second chance. Either by getting the puck or tying up the man. 

11 hours ago, Weave said:

I gave up on trying to stream the game a few minutes into the 3rd.  Not sure what was going on tonight, but even normally reliable streaming sites had issues tonight.  Oh well.  I guess I didn’t need to see that comeback.

i still don’t like what I am seeing with this team.  I realize we are down 2 key D men, but even the forward play was atrocious through large parts of the game.  
 

And I stand with @LTS.  Now that I was looking for it, you could plainly see Chicago choking off our fast break game.  Very effectively in the 2nd period.  Again, no idea if it continued into the 3rd.  Obviously the good guys won so something improved in the last 5-10 minutes anyway.

It did. The were playing totally different hockey at the end. More, quicker passes to get through traffic. And honestly, it just looked like they were trying harder. I’m going to have to go back and look and I said as much last night, but pretty sure they shortened the bench pretty good, as well.

Edited October 30, 2022 by SwampD

[JohnC]

9 hours ago, K-9 said:

Marty made a great point on (I believe) Chicago’s second goal and that was that when our D man went out to cover the man with the puck, it was Thomspon’s responsibility to drop down and take the guy in front of the net, but Tage went to cover the guy in the slot instead. I appreciated the point Biron made because it helps explain it’s not always on the D man leaving guys uncovered in front of the net. 

You make an astute observation about Marty Biron: As an analyst he has a keen eye on players and their responsibilities. He's really good at what he does. He doesn't have a caustic/harsh style of commenting on the play of players that would draw more attention to what he is saying. Although he has a congenial and somewhat understated approach to his presentation, if one listens to what he is saying one will become more knowledgeable about the game and have a fair representation of where this team is at relative to other teams in the league. 

 

[SwampD]

It was Pilut, Power, Okposo, Skinner and Thompson on the game tying goal.

Did something happen to Tuch? Or did DG just sit him. Didn’t see him in the third.

And at least the refs evened up the bad calls. That was a great draw by Peterka on Toews. Saw a similar draw on Kadri in the Oiler/Flames game.

 

[JohnC]

21 minutes ago, SwampD said:

It was Pilut, Power, Okposo, Skinner and Thompson on the game tying goal.

Did something happen to Tuch? Or did DG just sit him. Didn’t see him in the third.

And at least the refs evened up the bad calls. That was a great draw by Peterka on Toews. Saw a similar draw on Kadri in the Oiler/Flames game.

 

DG replaced Tuch on the first line with Okposo in order to change the dynamic of that line. It worked. The coach felt that the line wasn't clicking with Tuch. This was a case where the coach demonstrated his willingness to shake things up in-game when he thinks things are getting too stagnant. Good coaching and understanding of his team and players.  

[Believer]

12 hours ago, grinreaper said:

You must be an insurance guy.

No… Statistics class…

[SwampD]

14 minutes ago, JohnC said:

DG replaced Tuch on the first line with Okposo in order to change the dynamic of that line. It worked. The coach felt that the line wasn't clicking with Tuch. This was a case where the coach demonstrated his willingness to shake things up in-game when he thinks things are getting too stagnant. Good coaching and understanding of his team and players.  

I know why coaches change up lines.

Never mind. Just rewatched the third and Tuch was out there. He was just off. And Kyle was flying.

[JohnC]

4 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I know why coaches change up lines.

Never mind. Just rewatched the third and Tuch was out there. He was just off. And Kyle was flying.

As you also observed Kyle was the change agent on that line. An in-game coaching decision that was a major factor in the win. I thought that Skinner to his credit worked hard on a couple of goals to retrieve the puck and keep it in the offensive zone. 

Edited October 30, 2022 by JohnC

[Broken Ankles]

Watched late last night, but some observations.  
All three goals for Chicago were greasy.  The lack of size and strength in front is costly.  Missing mule. 

Victor has 6 goals in 8 games. If he weren’t scoring I could see the concern. No criticism here.  And he needs to be on the first PP. 

Chicago had only one line working last night, and Kaner still has something in the tank. If he keeps this up he will generate a lot of interest in the off-season. 

Love Z but wish he had softer hands.   

Quinn trending up; Krebs trending down. 

Asplund needs to be back. 

 

[grinreaper]

7 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

Anderson played great. We’re only in these games because of good goaltending.  Chicagos goaltending was stellar yeesh

 

Tage is back. Slow start to the season sure, but he’s battling and defenders can’t do anything about his reach when he’s moving his feet.

 

Oloffson has a shot. Needs to play 4th line with Girgensons/Okposo though, he’s killing any rookie he plays with. People put him up in trade talks because he has real value, an elite shot, but is a luxury a team like ours could use the value elsewhere.

 

Like our struggling defense. No physicality when all our physical defenseman are out. Nearly lost this game solely to this reason on junk goals. Power is a train wreck out there with no defenseman setting the tone for him. I get that he has potential, but he’s two years from it at least.  This is mostly an injury problem. 
 

Krebs is a disaster and needs the AHL. Giveaway giveaway giveaway doesn’t make up for one out of ten bonehead giveaways being a completed pass. He will always be this player but his odds can increase with experience gained down low, not destroying this teams chances. He’s a year or two out.  Id rather be icing Sheahan right now.  
 

Asplund is needed. With our defensive defenseman out how can you justify sitting him?  I’m losing respect for Granato he did exactly what he never should have done with the non merit based benching protocol. 
 

Glad they bounced back that Chicago team was bad. Even when we skated slow we were outplaying them, just lost the bounces. This team still has consistency issues and needs to figure that out if they’re going to make it through the season with a fighting chance. 

Rob Ray, is that you?

[Believer]

8 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

Asplund is needed. With our defensive defenseman out how can you justify sitting him?  I’m losing respect for Granato he did exactly what he never should have done with the non merit based benching protocol. 
 

Agree… Granato doesn’t set his roster to win with his best players… He’s still operating in developmental mode… Who sits tomorrow??

[Thorner]

15 hours ago, Brawndo said:

He’s the perfect argument for the NHL allowing an extra player to dress in a specialist role. 
He is excellent on the power play, but sucks at 5v5 for the most part. ( His Line was good tonight in a small sample size, but that’s probably more on Quinn than the other two)

Cozens and Peterka had Their Worst Game of Season when He was added to their line. 
He cannot tank other players if this team is going succeed. 
Tonight the Power Play worked, most of the season it hasn’t. 

The same offseason that saw Thompson and Samuelsson get 7 year extensions, saw Olofsson get two. That’s not by accident.

The Sabres took calls on VO as the trade deadline last year. Per Friedman one of the biggest barriers was the fact He was a RFA and teams particularly the Rangers were worried about how much His Extension would be. Now that He has cost certainty for two seasons, the Sabres can retain 50% and increase His Value.  I’m not looking to move Him for a Draft Pick but as part of a package for  a RHD. 

In regards to Kevin, He is pretty well respected by the Hockey Analytics Community and is followed by a majority of its members including Sam Ventura, Dom Galamini and Matt Barlowe. (AKA the Sabres Analytics Department) 

I understand who Kevin is. We follow each other on Twitter, me and you I mean, so I know you know that. 

He obviously does know his stuff. Doesn’t mean he isn’t wrong sometimes. He was WILDLY wrong on Dahlin.

But my point was that quoting my post and saying “read this tweet”, in a dismissive way, doesn’t really add anything to the discussion. 

What you followed it up with was more along the lines of what I was looking for, even if I disagree with most of the arguments you made about VO

Edited October 30, 2022 by Thorny

[PerreaultForever]

12 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

At very least 2 of the 3 injured guys do actually clear out the net front usually.

Dahlin has also learned how to dish out some pain behind the net.

Yes, Samuelsson and Lybushkin gave us improvement in that area. Problem is we don't have similar guys in the pipeline ready to step in and fill that hole with the injury. Our D pool (both young prospects and competent Fitz level AHL subs) is simply too thin. 

[K-9]

3 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Yes, Samuelsson and Lybushkin gave us improvement in that area. Problem is we don't have similar guys in the pipeline ready to step in and fill that hole with the injury. Our D pool (both young prospects and competent Fitz level AHL subs) is simply too thin. 

How many teams have quality D depth that goes nine Dmen deep? 

[PerreaultForever]

2 minutes ago, K-9 said:

How many teams have quality D depth that goes nine Dmen deep? 

depends on how you define "quality" I suppose. 

are you suggesting our D depth is adequate?