Attendance issues at whatever our arena is named now

[Eleven]

21 minutes ago, LTS said:

The arena does suck and it makes a difference. The whole area sucks and that adds to the problem. The area lacks any character at all. There are a large contingent of people, like me, who will go to a game because it's a hockey game. There are far more people who are looking for an experience.  What's the experience around the arena or in it?

Hockey is entertainment but the arena isn't in an entertainment district. It's in an corporate/industrial area. There are things like the casino that have been built up but they are multiple blocks away, which is a hell of walk in the Buffalo winter. So people aren't going to get enough "extra" experience for the investment of going to the game. It's easy enough to avoid paying for food/beverages in the arena, but that usually means you're looking for somewhere to go before or after the game.

As for the in-arena experience. You talk about the crappy music that every arena plays, does that include the ones that have fans butts in seats? It seems those aren't being hampered by the music.  Everything about the in-game experience for the Sabres is absolute trash.  You have to really love hockey to be there because there's absolutely nothing else to add value to the cost of your ticket.  I used to be more forgiving but I went to the Sabres game in Nashville last year and it completely reset my expectations of what a hockey experience should be.

Also, the team has sucked, and that has had a lot to do with things. Football has an impact to be certain, but the economy being crap and people having to choose where to spend their money also has an impact. The cost of the ticket keeps rising, they charge what, $15 for the Southern Tier 2X IPA, 19.2oz can?  The same that I can pull off the shelves at Wegmans for $3?  Granted, if you had lower beer costs you'd have even more drunken fan problems but that price gouging has to go.

Since the area, the arena, the in-game experience, and the cost are all not contributing to drawing fans in the only thing left is the team. A team that has been absolute trash for too long and has a long way to go to drawing a capacity crowd on a routine basis.

There's a lot here, much of which I agree with.

I haven't been to Nashville, but I've been to NHL games in Washington, NYC, and Toronto recently enough to know that the experience in those arenas is pretty much the same as the experience in Buffalo.  Toronto had better fresh food options.  And even watching games on TV, you can tell that pretty much every venue has the same package of very loud bad music, stupid sound effects, and "noise meters" on the scoreboard.

Even with all the newer restaurants near the Arena, the neighborhood does still have a generic, corporate feel to it, yes, compared to the rest of Buffalo.  But that's because Buffalo is a pretty special place with a lot of individualism.  The areas around MSG, Capital One, and whatever Toronto's arena is called this week (a problem that also plagues us) are no less generic/corporate, really.  Especially MSG; it must be a record for number of Sbarro "pizzerias" in a two block radius.

Edited October 29, 2022 by Eleven

[Pimlach]

14 hours ago, FiXCzeR said:

Attendance now isn't anywhere near as bad as it was in the 2002-03 season. I went to the Ducks game with a friend on December 4, 2002. The lower bowl was so empty they had ushers at the top of the steps checking tickets to make sure you weren't trying to get a better seat than the one you paid for. Our seats were in the 300's but we managed to finagle our way to to one of the many empty spots against the glass. It was one of the few good games that year. The Sabres got their 5th win of the season with a 3-0 shutout.

Sounds exactly like last year.  Everyone was buying 300’s and moving down.  The ushers didn’t even stop it.   

[LTS]

1 minute ago, Eleven said:

There's a lot here, much of which I agree with.

I haven't been to Nashville, but I've been to NHL games in Washington, NYC, and Toronto recently enough to know that the experience in those arenas is pretty much the same as the experience in Buffalo.  Toronto had better fresh food options.

Even with all the newer restaurants near the Arena, the neighborhood does still have a generic, corporate feel to it, yes, compared to the rest of Buffalo.  But that's because Buffalo is a pretty special place with a lot of individualism.  The areas around MSG, Verizon Center, and whatever Toronto's arena is called this week (a problem that also plagues us) are no less generic/corporate, really.  Especially MSG; it must be a record for number of Sbarro "pizzerias" in a two block radius.

I've not been to any of those places for a game. I've been around Verizon Center before and I thought there was some reasonably interesting surroundings, but I could be wrong as its been quite a long time since I was there (10+ years). MSG is MSG though. It's a destination unto itself. It matters little what is around it. Toronto will never have an issue simply because they are hockey crazed. I would imagine that if you put KeyBank Center in Toronto it would be full every night. They are a population that goes to a hockey game.. for the game and pay even more to do so.

I definitely want to go to other arenas to check out some games.  That said, our arena is trash.  You point out the individualism of Buffalo.  I don't know if I grasp that. Granted I grew up but moved out in 1996.. which was around the time the city began changing for the better (certainly compared to Rochester). I just think Buffalo needs to undergo some additional changes in that area. It would have been ideal to use the Bills stadium as the cornerstone to those changes.

Also, can we really get on the name changes?  The arena has been under the same sponsorship agreement that was signed when it opened.  The name changes have occurred due to corporate acquisitions.  It's not like they've been out changing sponsors all this time.

[Pimlach]

11 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

They've been winning the last three months ofregular season play.

Part of the problem are the Bills. Sabres have always lagged in attendance while football is still on. If attendance still sucks in February with the Sabres in the hunt for the playoffs then this market isn't an NHL market anymore.

The Bills never mattered in the 70 and the early 80’s.  There was a time every Sabres game was sold out no matter what the Bills were doing.  The problem is we have a recent history of bad teams and no Star players.  No big name all star players.  Since the Hasek era and with very few seasons as exceptions, the Sabres are the Washington Generals of the NHL. 

[LTS]

9 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Sounds exactly like last year.  Everyone was buying 300’s and moving down.  The ushers didn’t even stop it.   

Nor should they.  They should want the lower bowl filled so that it looks like the attendance is higher. This creates the perception to people watching on TV that the arena is more full and that they are missing out on a great experience.

Paying for a 300 level ticket and being able to move into the 100s is a clear sign to the Sabres that their pricing is out line and that fans see the value in the 300 level price but not the 100 level price.  Letting people move down will increase that value of the 300 level ticket... so much so to the point that 300 level tickets will be sold out and then people will pay for the 100 level because they really want to go.

The Sabres goal should be to maximize arena capacity so they can make money on the concessions.  They should go so far as to sell the tickets for $10 at the door at the time of the game if they are available.  I say $10 because there is an inherent cost of cleaning and maintenance that has to be accounted for.

 

[mjd1001]

2 hours ago, Eleven said:

The arena sucks, but building a new one isn't the answer.  Making it less generic would really help.  Turn down the same crappy music that every arena plays, make it a Buffalo experience, don't worry so much about making a 3x profit on the food and focus on serving good stuff, and we're there.  These are easy fixes.

I don't know if it is still true or not, but a couple years ago there was an article about concession prices and it had Buffalo listed in the top 5 most expensive.

I also think that is a bigger issue than most think.  In terms of total numbers, the cost of 2 beers, or a soft drink and a pretzel and a hot dog....that isn't anywhere near as much as the ticket prices.  BUT, mentally its a big thing. You pay for parking, you pay for the tickets, then when you go to the concession stand and pay $20 for something that would cost you $5 at home....that give fans that "What am I doing here paying this much for this" moment.

Seriously correct me if I'm wrong on this:  I remember Terry Pegula saying the Sabres didn't really want to raise ticket prices, they understood the Buffalo market, but they had to because in order to get revenue sharing, that was part of the deal with the NHL.   HOWEVER, concessions are not part of that.  Having concession prices SO high is a totally different issue that I don't think needs to exist.

 

Edited October 29, 2022 by mjd1001

[Pimlach]

53 minutes ago, LTS said:

The arena does suck and it makes a difference. The whole area sucks and that adds to the problem. The area lacks any character at all. There are a large contingent of people, like me, who will go to a game because it's a hockey game. There are far more people who are looking for an experience.  What's the experience around the arena or in it?

Hockey is entertainment but the arena isn't in an entertainment district. It's in an corporate/industrial area. There are things like the casino that have been built up but they are multiple blocks away, which is a hell of walk in the Buffalo winter. So people aren't going to get enough "extra" experience for the investment of going to the game. It's easy enough to avoid paying for food/beverages in the arena, but that usually means you're looking for somewhere to go before or after the game.

As for the in-arena experience. You talk about the crappy music that every arena plays, does that include the ones that have fans butts in seats? It seems those aren't being hampered by the music.  Everything about the in-game experience for the Sabres is absolute trash.  You have to really love hockey to be there because there's absolutely nothing else to add value to the cost of your ticket.  I used to be more forgiving but I went to the Sabres game in Nashville last year and it completely reset my expectations of what a hockey experience should be.

Also, the team has sucked, and that has had a lot to do with things. Football has an impact to be certain, but the economy being crap and people having to choose where to spend their money also has an impact. The cost of the ticket keeps rising, they charge what, $15 for the Southern Tier 2X IPA, 19.2oz can?  The same that I can pull off the shelves at Wegmans for $3?  Granted, if you had lower beer costs you'd have even more drunken fan problems but that price gouging has to go.

Since the area, the arena, the in-game experience, and the cost are all not contributing to drawing fans in the only thing left is the team. A team that has been absolute trash for too long and has a long way to go to drawing a capacity crowd on a routine basis.

I think there is a lot to disagree with.  Did the old Aud suck because it had crowded halls, few food choices, crowded bathrooms, etc?   How many great bars and restaurants were outside the old Aud and adjacent to it?   The old Aud’s antiquity was the experience.  That, and good hockey, All Star players, and a team that was popular and embedded in the community.  In the best years the experience was the game, not the bars afterward. Many people bring a kid to a game, do you think they stay out all night bar hopping?  
 

The current arena is not great but it’s no much different than the average arena in most cities. There are bars and restaurants nearby if that is what you feel is needed for “the experience”, downtown Buffalo is so much better now than the 60’s, 70’s, 80’s and 90’s.   The music inside changes with the current pop culture. 
 

The only thing I agree with are the ridiculous costs of tickets and food.  That is true everywhere, in every city. 

Edited October 29, 2022 by Pimlach

[PromoTheRobot]

29 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

The Bills never mattered in the 70 and the early 80’s.  There was a time every Sabres game was sold out no matter what the Bills were doing.  The problem is we have a recent history of bad teams and no Star players.  No big name all star players.  Since the Hasek era and with very few seasons as exceptions, the Sabres are the Washington Generals of the NHL. 

We've got a million excuses. The bottom line is not enough people go to games. You say they'll come when the win? They've been playing winning hockey the last three months. The arena? You're not a hockey fan if the arena is stopping you. Too expensive? Go anywhere else and buy a ticket, buy a beer or pay for parking. I think Buffalo needs to prove it's still an NHL market. If you can't be bothered to go watch the current team then maybe the AHL is more your speed.

[LabattBlue]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

We've got a million excuses. The bottom line is not enough people go to games. You say they'll come when the win? They've been playing winning hockey the last three months. The arena? You're not a hockey fan if the arena is stopping you. Too expensive? Go anywhere else and buy a ticket, buy a beer or pay for parking. I think Buffalo needs to prove it's still an NHL market. If you can't be bothered to go watch the current team then maybe the AHL is more your speed.

I was part of a group who had seasons for almost 20 years, gave them up when Covid hit, and you want to tell me that I should become an AHL fan instead?
Seriously?  
 

Good for you and your super fan attitude, but don’t judge me or any other fans who doled out thousands of dollars as STH over the craptacular aka the Pegula era. 

Edited October 29, 2022 by LabattBlue

[sabremike]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

We've got a million excuses. The bottom line is not enough people go to games. You say they'll come when the win? They've been playing winning hockey the last three months. The arena? You're not a hockey fan if the arena is stopping you. Too expensive? Go anywhere else and buy a ticket, buy a beer or pay for parking. I think Buffalo needs to prove it's still an NHL market. If you can't be bothered to go watch the current team then maybe the AHL is more your speed.

The National Hockey League is over 100 years old and only one team has EVER missed the playoffs for 11 (soon to be 12 and counting) consecutive seasons. Before saying the market is no longer an NHL one maybe recognize the problem is that for over a decade the Sabres have been an NHL team in name only.

[mjd1001]

3 hours ago, LTS said:

The arena does suck and it makes a difference. The whole area sucks and that adds to the problem. The area lacks any character at all. There are a large contingent of people, like me, who will go to a game because it's a hockey game. There are far more people who are looking for an experience.  What's the experience around the arena or in it?

Hockey is entertainment but the arena isn't in an entertainment district. It's in an corporate/industrial area. There are things like the casino that have been built up but they are multiple blocks away, which is a hell of walk in the Buffalo winter. So people aren't going to get enough "extra" experience for the investment of going to the game. It's easy enough to avoid paying for food/beverages in the arena, but that usually means you're looking for somewhere to go before or after the game.

As for the in-arena experience. You talk about the crappy music that every arena plays, does that include the ones that have fans butts in seats? It seems those aren't being hampered by the music.  Everything about the in-game experience for the Sabres is absolute trash.  You have to really love hockey to be there because there's absolutely nothing else to add value to the cost of your ticket.  I used to be more forgiving but I went to the Sabres game in Nashville last year and it completely reset my expectations of what a hockey experience should be.

Also, the team has sucked, and that has had a lot to do with things. Football has an impact to be certain, but the economy being crap and people having to choose where to spend their money also has an impact. The cost of the ticket keeps rising, they charge what, $15 for the Southern Tier 2X IPA, 19.2oz can?  The same that I can pull off the shelves at Wegmans for $3?  Granted, if you had lower beer costs you'd have even more drunken fan problems but that price gouging has to go.

Since the area, the arena, the in-game experience, and the cost are all not contributing to drawing fans in the only thing left is the team. A team that has been absolute trash for too long and has a long way to go to drawing a capacity crowd on a routine basis.

As per my previous post, I agree with almost everything you say. There is so much they can do pretty easily.

-How about opening the doors to the Arena earlier...keeping that entire atrium open for fans to mingle at.  2 hours before the game, maybe have a band playing.  Bing in the games for the kids (shooting the puck, other stuff).  sell food and drink ad a REDUCED (but still profitible rate)..Maybe bring in open vendors and before the game have them sell their food there instead of standard concessions.  EVERY game have an alumni or maybe even a current player make an appearance/sign autographs. Put up a big projection screen there and show your 'beyond blue and gold', 'sabres embedded' or highlights of the season so far on it. Have Marty Biron, Duff, and/or Rob Ray mingle before the pre-game show its the air. Sure, that won't make the 'in game' experience better, but give peopel MORE Of a reason to show up at the game, to show up early with something to do.  Maybe some of those are bad idea, but do something like that, something bigger than what you do now.

[jad1]

From top to bottom this organization has no real expectation of making the playoffs this year, and the fans recognize that and are responding by staying home.

The NHL isn't a developmental league.  Most fans aren't interested in dropping 100 bucks to see if this is the year that Casey Mittelstadt actually because a legit NHL player.

While many on this board might be thrilled with the team's salary cap management, nobody shows up to a professional sports game to watch the home teams humongous cap space.

The things that the Sabres management team values right now, isn't what the general fanbase values.  If Adams and Co. believe that the team will compete for a championship two years from now, the fans say, great, we'll check back in with you then.

As for high prices and the dump of an arena, the Bills play in the same city and have even higher prices and even more of a dump of a stadium, and even play in the elements.  They have no problem filling the stadium.  Of course, unlike the Sabres, they've had no problems letting everyone and their brother know that they expect to win a championship, and have made moves to accomplish that goal.  The fans seem to like that and respond better to that approach that the Sabres current wait-and-see strategy.

 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, sabremike said:

The National Hockey League is over 100 years old and only one team has EVER missed the playoffs for 11 (soon to be 12 and counting) consecutive seasons. Before saying the market is no longer an NHL one maybe recognize the problem is that for over a decade the Sabres have been an NHL team in name only.

 

2 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

I was part of a group who had seasons for almost 20 years, gave them up when Covid hit, and you want to tell me that I should become an AHL fan instead?
Seriously?  
 

Good for you and your super fan attitude, but don’t judge me or any other fans who doled out thousands of dollars as STH over the craptacular aka the Pegula era. 

So if I understand you both, you won't support the Sabres until they make the playoffs? Make it twice? Three times? Win a cup? Erase the last 11 years so they never happened?  You want Kevin Adams to build the team the right way but you're mad that the team hasn't made any  blockbuster signings or trades?  And as for craptacular Terry, if the Bills are craptacular, sign me up for that!  

Sorry if I offend some of you. I am just so tired of these weak sauce excuses. I heard the same things about the Bills for years. Be a fan. Buy a ticket.

[Thorner]

4 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

We've got a million excuses. The bottom line is not enough people go to games. You say they'll come when the win? They've been playing winning hockey the last three months. The arena? You're not a hockey fan if the arena is stopping you. Too expensive? Go anywhere else and buy a ticket, buy a beer or pay for parking. I think Buffalo needs to prove it's still an NHL market. If you can't be bothered to go watch the current team then maybe the AHL is more your speed.

 

2 hours ago, sabremike said:

The National Hockey League is over 100 years old and only one team has EVER missed the playoffs for 11 (soon to be 12 and counting) consecutive seasons. Before saying the market is no longer an NHL one maybe recognize the problem is that for over a decade the Sabres have been an NHL team in name only.

Exactly. 3 months of "winning" after more than a decade of awfulness.

A cheerio life-preserver to a drowning man.

Give it time. If we make the playoffs, the crowds will be electric. 

We don't need to "win games", we don't need to "win playoff rounds". The narrative of this hockey team begins, and ends, right now with one word: Playoffs. That's the lead - no playoffs in 11 years. Making the playoffs is the tipping point for a turn around. 

In terms of the GM having done a good job, in terms of the fans being fully on board again...that's the bar. Truly believe that. 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

29 minutes ago, jad1 said:

From top to bottom this organization has no real expectation of making the playoffs this year, and the fans recognize that and are responding by staying home.

 

Remember when the Bills hired McDermott and Beane and started trading away all their "stars?" Everyone was so sure they were tanking, and yet that 2017 team made the playoffs and broke the drought. Funny how you never notice a team getting good while it's happening. 

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

 

Exactly. 3 months of "winning" after more than a decade of awfulness.

A cheerio life-preserver to a drowning man.

Give it time. If we make the playoffs, the crowds will be electric. 

We don't need to "win games", we don't need to "win playoff rounds". The narrative of this hockey team begins, and ends, right now with one word: Playoffs. That's the lead - no playoffs in 11 years. Making the playoffs is the tipping point for a turn around. 

In terms of the GM having done a good job, in terms of the fans being fully on board again...that's the bar. Truly believe that. 

 

That's called being a bandwagon fan.

Edited October 29, 2022 by PromoTheRobot

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

So if I understand you both, you won't support the Sabres until they make the playoffs? Make it twice? Three times? Win a cup? Erase the last 11 years so they never happened?  You want Kevin Adams to build the team the right way but you're mad that the team hasn't made any  blockbuster signings or trades?  And as for craptacular Terry, if the Bills are craptacular, sign me up for that!  

Sorry if I offend some of you. I am just so tired of these weak sauce excuses. I heard the same things about the Bills for years. Be a fan. Buy a ticket.

The folks on this message board are the 99 billionth percentile for passionate fans. 

Imagine posting 27k times on a message board for a hockey team during a historically bad stretch of hockey, worldwide. Absolute madness.

Anyone posting here over this stretch regularly deserves a thank you card from the team once the team is good. That's not a joke. They should actually do it. 

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, Thorny said:

The folks on this message board are the 99 billionth percentile for passionate fans. 

Imagine posting 27k times on a message board for a hockey team during a historically bad stretch of hockey, worldwide. Absolute madness.

Anyone posting here over this stretch regularly deserves a thank you card from the team once the team is good. That's not a joke. They should actually do it. 

I don't consider ragging on a team in an online forum being a fan. 

[Thorner]

11 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Remember when the Bills hired McDermott and Beane and started trading away all their "stars?" Everyone was so sure they were tanking, and yet that 2017 team made the playoffs and broke the drought. Funny how you never notice a team getting good while it's happening. 

That's called being a bandwagon fan.

Look Promo, they've invented a new fan category for you because you are so far beyond comparison to anyone else. Never once have you doubted the team in 10 years, you have spared no penny in donations to the team, you've spread the word far and wide and attended 41 games a season, knocking over the beers of fans you've deemed to not be cheering loud enough, and chastising fans on the way out the door who have been disappointed in losses. 

You are Him. You are THE fan of the Buffalo Sabres.

- - - 

That out of the way: how the heck are people who are watching all these games and following the team through all this muck "bandwagon" fans? Is there an official definition I'm missing where there's a minimum ticket purchase requirement per year?

Asking for a friend. If my attendance in Winnipeg for the Sabres games isn't meeting the criteria, I'd have you tell me. And I'm hitting you up for free living accommodations when I come to Buffalo to make up the gap. 

Edited October 29, 2022 by Thorny

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I don't consider ragging on a team in an online forum being a fan. 

Fan. Short form for: fanatic. a person filled with excessive and single-minded zeal, especially for an extreme religious or political cause.

Anyone fanatically supporting the team in an absolutely positive, or absolutely negative way, is assuredly Sith. 

And they scare me a little bit, to be honest. 

[PromoTheRobot]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Look Promo, they've invented a new fan category for you because you are so far beyond comparison to anyone else. Never once have you doubted the team in 10 years, you have spared no penny in donations to the team, you've spread the word far and wide and attended 41 games a season, chastising fans on the way out the door who have been disappointed in losses. 

You are Him. You are THE fan of the Buffalo Sabres.

- - - 

That out of the way: how the heck are people who are watching all these games and following the team through all this much "bandwagon" fans? Is there an official definition I'm missing where there's a minimum ticket purchase requirement per year?

Asking for a friend. If my attendance in Winnipeg for the Sabres games isn't meeting the criteria, I'd have you tell me. And I'm hitting you up for free living accommodations when I come to Buffalo to make up the gap. 

Fans spend money and attend games. You are a fan. Fans buy jerseys and spring for ESPN+ or whatever. Fans are invested in their teams. (Not all can afford to spend money but invest with their hearts.) Just being a critic is not fandom.

And yes, I have been angry and despaired over the direction of the Sabres. I considered not renewing my seasons a few times. As for the team itself, all you can do is watch them and judge what they are doing. I think this team and front office deserve support. If you don't want to that's fine. Just don't make excuses about cracked floors in the arena keeping you away.

Edited October 29, 2022 by PromoTheRobot

[jad1]

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Remember when the Bills hired McDermott and Beane and started trading away all their "stars?" Everyone was so sure they were tanking, and yet that 2017 team made the playoffs and broke the drought. Funny how you never notice a team getting good while it's happening. 

 

Right, McDermott made the playoffs his first season, breaking the 17 year drought, winning fans over to the idea that he and Beane were competent custodians for the franchise.

Let's be kind to Granato and consider last season to be his first with the Sabres. If Adams/Granato would have snagged the 8th playoff spot last season, the arena most likely would have been full to start the season.  But they missed that mark by 25 points.  And the general fanbase remains unconvinced that he can break the  team's playoff drought. So they stay home.

 

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Fans spend money and attend games. You are a fan. Fans buy jerseys and spring for ESPN+ or whatever. Fans are invested in their teams. Just being a critic is not fandom.

And yes, I have been angry and despaired over the direction of the Sabres. I considered not renewing my seasons a few times. As for the team itself, all you can do is watch them and judge what they are doing. I think this team and front office deserve support. If you don't want to that's fine. Just don't make excuses about cracked floors in the arena keeping you away.

I can see where you are coming from on this, where your emotions are at. I feel this way about movie theatres. The industry itself is dying, the theatres struggling to keep up profits often have fallen into disrepair - the theatre by my place is becoming a POS. But I go, all the time, because I love movies and the theatrical experience and I want it to succeed. I'll put up with a sh*tty experience in theatre because I want to be there. 

But it would be a massive mistake for me to hold a grudge against people who want to experience their movies in a different way. It's 2022, there are myriad of ways to experience the art form without having to put yourself in a situation one finds uncomfortable - how anyone could believe they have the authority to tell people *how* to engage with a product/art form/sport they love is beyond me. -

It's a personal relationship. It should be enough that people want to be here, discussing the team, with you.

We shouldn't ever forget that the Buffalo Sabres are, first and foremost in essence, a product. An entertainment product. The burden of convincing fans to part with their hard earned money assuredly falls on the party doing the selling. 

Fans who are engaging with the team but not spending as much money are simply fans waiting to be convinced to part with their hard-earned dollars. The point, though, is that they are still around, listening, and waiting, for the argument that'll finally convince them. 

 

[LabattBlue]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

So if I understand you both, you won't support the Sabres until they make the playoffs? Make it twice? Three times? Win a cup? Erase the last 11 years so they never happened?  You want Kevin Adams to build the team the right way but you're mad that the team hasn't made any  blockbuster signings or trades?  And as for craptacular Terry, if the Bills are craptacular, sign me up for that!  

Sorry if I offend some of you. I am just so tired of these weak sauce excuses. I heard the same things about the Bills for years. Be a fan. Buy a ticket.

Did you read my post?  I was a STH for 20 years.  Now, just because they have a few interesting prospects, I am a terrible fan for not attending games. 
 

I am not apologizing for not getting my pom poms out, I will leave that to you, and at the same time demote myself to AHL level fan.   No one should be shamed for not attending games…especially by an anonymous person on the internet  

Keep the cape on, and carry on with your super fan propaganda.  

[Pimlach]

6 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

We've got a million excuses. The bottom line is not enough people go to games. You say they'll come when the win? They've been playing winning hockey the last three months. The arena? You're not a hockey fan if the arena is stopping you. Too expensive? Go anywhere else and buy a ticket, buy a beer or pay for parking. I think Buffalo needs to prove it's still an NHL market. If you can't be bothered to go watch the current team then maybe the AHL is more your speed.

I never said the fans will come when the team wins.  Others have said that but not me.   I go think they will, everyone Ioves a winner.  
 

I said the excuses like “the experience”, the arena, the music, the food, the bars, etc., is all BS.  Hockey fans want good hockey. 

Edited October 29, 2022 by Pimlach

[JohnC]

5 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I never said the fans will come when the team runs.  Others have said that but not me.   I go think they will, everyone Ioves a winner.  
 

I said the excuses like “the experience”, the arena, the music, the food, the bars, etc., is all BS.  Hockey fans want good hockey. 

Last year, there were two games that celebrated RJ. In both of those games the arena was closed to being filled or filled. The fans showed up because they appreciated him and his service to this franchise. There is enough of a fanbase to draw from in Western NY and Canada for the arena to get back to being alive and rocking. As you and others have said the biggest factor in regenerating interest is for this franchise/team to demonstrate that they can compete enough to be considered a serious team in this league. Gimmicks are not going to be a significant factor in the return of the fans. Playing meaningful hockey is the obvious antidote to this franchise's malaise. Without question this year's team is entertaining to watch. The next step is to regularly win. I sincerely don't believe that this franchise is far away to regaining back the fans that they lost in their recent ignominious journey. 

I want to emphasize that I don't have any criticism for the skeptics. It's the organization's responsibility to win them back. The fans didn't fail the franchise; the franchise failed the fans. It's now their responsibility to win their trust back.