Defense Injury Survival

[GASabresIUFAN]

33 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

The main question I have about Myers is if he is good enough for the bottom pair?

if the answer is yes - the. You give the Canucks some draft picks and a middle of the road prospect  

taking him off their books is a huge bonus to them , he should come relatively cheap   

 

KA is very deliberate.  He most likely going to give Pilut and Fitz a legit chance to succeed before making a trade.  The caveat is if someone makes an offer he can’t refuse

[nfreeman]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Why would it be a negative to the locker room?  If anything they’d likely view it as a positive that their GM has faith in them and is supporting the team in their hour of need.  When is the last time you heard players pissed that the GM made deadline additions to fill holes in the roster?  The added bonus is that he is signed for another year and depending on his play and our needs he could be traded at the deadline or in the offseason or if he plays well he could earn a role next season as well.

His cap hit would also free up KA to trade Bishop’s contract for other assets.  

Because he'd parachute in as the highest-paid defenseman on the team, despite being a 3rd-pairing guy whose team dumped him as part of a burn-it-down process, and despite not having proven himself here.

These guys are human.  They compare themselves to each other on a number of factors, and one of those is pay.

[Huckleberry]

Myers also has an M-NTC , so might not be able to get him.     2 more years at 6 mill though.  

[Pimlach]

Depth.  I don’t think Pilut or Kale Clagburger are the answer.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

6 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Depth.  I don’t think Pilut or Kale Clagburger are the answer.  

Nor is Fitz.

 

[LGR4GM]

We've known since this summer the needed 2 defenders added who were 4/5 level or better. Adams only added one. He needs to find another, sooner rather than later. 

[mjd1001]

I know Jokiharju isn't always the favorite of people on this board, but I think last night was a good indication of why he is missed. 

He makes mistakes, he CAN be frustrating at times...but he is skilled (skating, passing) and most of the time he uses that skill to get the puck out of the zone better than the 5-6-7 D-men we are seeing now.

[LGR4GM]

14 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I know Jokiharju isn't always the favorite of people on this board, but I think last night was a good indication of why he is missed. 

He makes mistakes, he CAN be frustrating at times...but he is skilled (skating, passing) and most of the time he uses that skill to get the puck out of the zone better than the 5-6-7 D-men we are seeing now.

The thing with Joker has always been he should be a 3rd pairing guy. The thing with Fitz and what comes after him is they should be Rochester guys. Depth at defense is a problem and there isn't much help that will natural come along. 

[John Tucker]

If last night was any indication, KA needs to get on the horn pretty quick.  The defensive zone play was beyond abysmal.  Once we start playing all those quality teams in our conference, this could get ugly fast.  Can't let it get away from us this early in the season, especially when they finally have the potential to contend for a playoff spot.  

[Drag0nDan]

13 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

The thing with Joker has always been he should be a 3rd pairing guy. The thing with Fitz and what comes after him is they should be Rochester guys. Depth at defense is a problem and there isn't much help that will natural come along. 

Yeah, Pilut can create space for himself and is a skilled passer.  Fitzgerald is not giving me the best vibes.  It's always tough to be the swing guy on these type of arrangements though.  They pair you with randoms constantly and theres no chemistry, but he was bad in his own end last night.

[mjd1001]

13 minutes ago, John Tucker said:

If last night was any indication, KA needs to get on the horn pretty quick.  The defensive zone play was beyond abysmal.  Once we start playing all those quality teams in our conference, this could get ugly fast.  Can't let it get away from us this early in the season, especially when they finally have the potential to contend for a playoff spot.  

I honestly didn't think the D played THAT awful last night.

I posted a lot of this in another thread, but Seattle had 2 goals that the D-had nothing to do with (one great pass and one lucky boune off of a stick).  A third was the deflection of Hinostrozas pass right to the front of the net.  A 4th goal was more a result of the wingers pinching in 2 deep, and then Cozens going in deep leaving NO ONE  to cover the shooter (D-played positionally well there, it was the wingers and Cozens out of position mostly Cozens)

Power was out of position a lot, but I dont' think those were mistakes but rather he needs a little more experience with the NHL game.  Pilut, Fitzgerald, and Bryson need to win more battles and be less sloppy with the puck, but they didn't really make any mistakes the caused goals against.  

[John Tucker]

9 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I honestly didn't think the D played THAT awful last night.

I posted a lot of this in another thread, but Seattle had 2 goals that the D-had nothing to do with (one great pass and one lucky boune off of a stick).  A third was the deflection of Hinostrozas pass right to the front of the net.  A 4th goal was more a result of the wingers pinching in 2 deep, and then Cozens going in deep leaving NO ONE  to cover the shooter (D-played positionally well there, it was the wingers and Cozens out of position mostly Cozens)

Power was out of position a lot, but I dont' think those were mistakes but rather he needs a little more experience with the NHL game.  Pilut, Fitzgerald, and Bryson need to win more battles and be less sloppy with the puck, but they didn't really make any mistakes the caused goals against.  

I didn't get a chance to watch the whole game, but what I did see was a lot of 2 on 1's, 2 on 0's and sloppy, sloppy play.  I only saw one Kraken goal but from what I witnessed, there could've easily been another 4 or 5...They were a mess.  Bryson in particular lost every single board battle.   Now that we some good puck movers I think another stay at home d-man is needed, especially if Samuelsson is out longer than expected.  We have enough assets to pry someone away.

[bob_sauve28]

I wish they offered Pysyk some more money. Not great, but very good compared to what we have to throw out there at 5-6 

[Derrico]

On 10/23/2022 at 11:41 AM, matter2003 said:

I think they will be fine...that's why they got Pilut. Willing to bet he looks a lot better under Meatball's system than he did last time he was here.

I think they got Pilut because he didn't want to play in Russia anymore (understandably). 

[GASabresIUFAN]

The truth is almost no team in the NHL can lose 50% of their top four D without seeing a significant drop in the quality of play.  However, the GM’s job is to limit that drop off as much as possible. For a team with a rookie in Power and the average age of the top 4 of 21.5 getting veteran depth was a greater necessity than for many other teams and adding only Bush wasn’t enough.   With 19 mill in cap space he certainly has the money to correct the mistske, but does he have the will?  

Sadly, I don’t think he’ll act to fill that hole, even if the team languishes for the next few games. 

Edited October 26, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[LGR4GM]

17 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The truth is almost no team in the NHL can lose 50% of their top four D without seeing a significant drop in the quality of play.  However, the GM’s job is to limit that drop off as much as possible. For a team with a rookie in Power and the average age of the top 4 of 21.5 getting veteran depth was a greater necessity than for many other teams and adding only Bush wasn’t enough.   With 19 mill in cap space he certainly has the money to correct the mistske, but does he have the will?  

Sadly, I don’t think he’ll act to fill that hole, even if the team languishes for the next few games. 

My concern is there isn't anything in the pipe that gets blocked by trading for a defender. It's a shallow pool back there. 

[Marvin]

33 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The truth is almost no team in the NHL can lose 50% of their top four D without seeing a significant drop in the quality of play.  However, the GM’s job is to limit that drop off as much as possible. For a team with a rookie in Power and the average age of the top 4 of 21.5 getting veteran depth was a greater necessity than for many other teams and adding only Bush wasn’t enough.   With 19 mill in cap space he certainly has the money to correct the mistske, but does he have the will?  

Sadly, I don’t think he’ll act to fill that hole, even if the team languishes for the next few games. 

I imagine he views it as a chance to develop the bottom of the roster for a month.

[Taro T]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

We've known since this summer the needed 2 defenders added who were 4/5 level or better. Adams only added one. He needs to find another, sooner rather than later. 

Wonder if he thought Pilut was that 2nd 4/5?  The contract he gave him says 'no.'  But part of that might just be residual from the way Larry left.  He'd made up his mind to leave after Botterill wouldn't give him a 1 way deal, but he didn't actually leave until it was on Adams watch.

Also wonder if he thought a guy would become available when rosters had to become cap compliant.

Either way, yes, 1 more D-man would be a good thing if Jokiharju or Samuelsson will be out LT, but it then also puts somebody on waivers (Pilut has to clear waivers with 13 more NHL games) that might not clear and then they're back to 8 NHLers.  So, whatever they give up the bring in another D, unless he's brought in really quickly, the price likely also includes Pilut or Fitzgerald too and expect Adams will include that in what he's willing to give up.

The ton of cap space Adams still has could be leveraged into a significant portion of what they need to pay to bring somebody in if Adams wants to go that route of bringing someone extra in.

 

But, that game had a lot of the same errors from all the skaters that we saw in the Otter game though on a greater scale.  It wasn't just the D that were bad in their own end.

Let's see if things are cleaned up Thursday night before panicking.  

[Taro T]

Personally, until either Jokiharju (their 4th or 5th best D-man) or Samuelsson (their 2nd best) are ready, would be running Dahlin for about 27 minutes typically w/ 1 of the bottom 3 (rotating which of the 3 get that pairing until/unless 1 of the 3 click w/ him) but if they know they're about to be getting the other team's top line put Lyubushkin out with him.  Run Lyubushkin and Power for ~23 minutes.  And then run the other 2 guys together for the other up to 10 minutes.  (And hopefully for a lot of PPs, so a pairing of the 2 of the bottom 3 could be together for ~6 minutes total.)  Primarily run them w/ the Okposo line and try to avoid having them on the ice w/ Cozens line.

If they get 3 PPs, that would have Dahlin at 27, Buush & Power at 23 each, and the other 3 at 14 each.  Don't really want to push Lyubushkin up towards 25 minutes as he plays hard minutes when he's out there.  One of the 3 probably slides up to 18 and the other 2 get 12.  Shouldn't be the D killing them if they do lose w/ that sort of a deployment.

They've got 4 games in a row at home, so they can to a certain degree get the matchups they want.

Doubt Granato does that as he'd probably view it as "playing scared."  But, expect it could work.

[GASabresIUFAN]

33 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

My concern is there isn't anything in the pipe that gets blocked by trading for a defender. It's a shallow pool back there. 

That’s correct.  There are no legit prospects in Rochester on defense.  Acquiring someone, even someone with term, wouldn’t block anyone.  

From KA’s point of view, I think he and DG like the top 6 when everyone is healthy.  Getting someone like Myers would complicate their goal of max PT for guys like Bryson and Joki. While I would agree seeing what we have in those two is important, I saw enough in the first 5 games to believe that with a good D group we could be a legit playoff contender this season.  It’s time to move on from a strictly developmental goal for the team and try to field a winner. Making a bold move to shore up the defense now would help that winning narrative.  I’m just not sure KA is willing to be that bold.  

28 minutes ago, Marvin said:

I imagine he views it as a chance to develop the bottom of the roster for a month.

What happens if no more development is possible for those players?

[Marvin]

34 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That’s correct.  There are no legit prospects in Rochester on defense.  Acquiring someone, even someone with term, wouldn’t block anyone.  

From KA’s point of view, I think he and DG like the top 6 when everyone is healthy.  Getting someone like Myers would complicate their goal of max PT for guys like Bryson and Joki. While I would agree seeing what we have in those two is important, I saw enough in the first 5 games to believe that with a good D group we could be a legit playoff contender this season.  It’s time to move on from a strictly developmental goal for the team and try to field a winner. Making a bold move to shore up the defense now would help that winning narrative.  I’m just not sure KA is willing to be that bold.  

What happens if no more development is possible for those players?

I agree with you.  This team could be good enough to seriously challenge for the playoffs if the defence can be patched up for the short term.

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, Marvin said:

I agree with you.  This team could be good enough to seriously challenge for the playoffs if the defence can be patched up for the short term.

And if the goaltending holds up.  Both are necessary; neither is sufficient.

[thewookie1]

I think the biggest issue with any trade for another Dman is the fact we'd be put in a bad spot once Joki and Muel return.

 

The Sabres want to see what Bryson is and don't want to waive Fitzgerald thus leaving no roster spots open post injury. 

[Weave]

3 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

I think the biggest issue with any trade for another Dman is the fact we'd be put in a bad spot once Joki and Muel return.

 

The Sabres want to see what Bryson is and don't want to waive Fitzgerald thus leaving no roster spots open post injury. 

If the new guy is an upgrade over either, why would it matter?

I think we’ve seen all that either of those two are going to be.  Neither would be a loss worth not making a “now” upgrade.

[Marvin]

29 minutes ago, Taro T said:

And if the goaltending holds up.  Both are necessary; neither is sufficient.

Agreed.  I stand corrected.