Best players since expansion: which Sabres make the cut?

[dudacek]

The Athletic has started a new project ranking and profiling the NHL’s best players of the modern era, which coincides with expansion.

Criteria is anyone who has played 400 NHL games since 1967.

https://theathletic.com/3550299/2022/10/14/nhl99-ranking-the-greatest-players-in-modern-nhl-history/

Gretzky has already been crowned #1, they are counting down the rest of the top 100, starting this week with 100 Marc-Andre Fleury, 99 Kris Letang, 98 Guy Lapointe, 97 Henrik Zetterberg and 96 Johnny Bucyk.

Im curious which Sabres people think belong on the list and where?

 

[Weave]

Not sure I want to delve into where, but Hasek, Perrault and Hawerchuck should be there I think.  Thats probably it.

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, Weave said:

Not sure I want to delve into where, but Hasek, Perrault and Hawerchuck should be there I think.  Thats probably it.

If Hasek’s not top 10 there has to be a Euro bias going on.

Perreault and Hawerchuk for sure and Lafontaine as well.

Housley and Andreychuk are in the Hall of Fame, Martin and Mogilny should be; not sure if any make this list.

[DarthEbriate]

7 minutes ago, Weave said:

Not sure I want to delve into where, but Hasek, Perrault and Hawerchuck should be there I think.  Thats probably it.

Hasek's placement will be determined by how the Athletic staff/metrics value goalies and how good the teams around them were. Hasek could be as high as #2. If it's all about Cups and dominant teams then he'll be top 15 with Roy/Brodeur above him.

Edited October 15, 2022 by DarthEbriate

[Weave]

10 minutes ago, dudacek said:

If Hasek’s not top 10 there has to be a Euro bias going on.

Perreault and Hawerchuk for sure and Lafontaine as well.

Housley and Andreychuk are in the Hall of Fame, Martin and Mogilny should be; not sure if any make this list.

I think the last third of LaLas career will work against him making the list.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Weave

[JoeSchmoe]

They didn't have a long stint on the team, but you gotta figure Gilmour is on the list and Fuhr has a shot. 

He'll probably get screwed due to the Russian political thing, my vote goes out to Anatoli Semonov. 

[Thorner]

7 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

Hasek's placement will be determined by how the Athletic staff/metrics value goalies and how good the teams around them were. Hasek could be as high as #2. If it's all about Cups and dominant teams then he'll be top 15 with Roy/Brodeur above him.

It’s so so hard to split hairs when determining “best”, especially across eras, but the all-time NHL Hart trophy could, and probably should, have Hasek’s name on it. 

[RangerDave]

Taro Tsujimoto!

[mjd1001]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

It’s so so hard to split hairs when determining “best”, especially across eras, but the all-time NHL Hart trophy could, and probably should, have Hasek’s name on it. 

I agree.  Mario Lemieux always makes the top 10 lists, but I think a case can be made for him at #1.  He did not have the longevity for sure, that is the biggest thing going against him, but of all the players I have ever watched play hockey, he was the one that could take over the game and be totally unstoppable more than anyone (including Gretzky).  

Lemieux and Hasek are the only two players that had players on the other side shaking their heads because at times there was NOTHING the other team could do against them.

[Taro T]

Considering it's the Athletic rather than THN or TSN/SN wtf knows?

But figure Hasek, Perreault, & Hawerchuk are locks.  LaFontaine should make it, but his career was pretty short due to injuries.  Expect the short career will do in Martin's chances the same as it doomed his HoF chance.

Expect Gilmour & Fuhr have a legit chance.

Doubt they make it, but Mogilny, Andreychuk, Crozier, Horton, & Clark Gillies all could make a case.  Barrasso & Housley could get mentions but doubt either makes it.  (And Phil absolutely should not.)  Could Briere or Miller sneak in?  Doubt it.  Only 100 slots.

[Curt]

11 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

I agree.  Mario Lemieux always makes the top 10 lists, but I think a case can be made for him at #1.  He did not have the longevity for sure, that is the biggest thing going against him, but of all the players I have ever watched play hockey, he was the one that could take over the game and be totally unstoppable more than anyone (including Gretzky).  

Lemieux and Hasek are the only two players that had players on the other side shaking their heads because at times there was NOTHING the other team could do against them.

I’m not saying you are wrong, but I just wanted to point something crazy out.  Gretzky had a stretch of 6 consecutive years where he not just led the league in scoring, he did it while having over 65 points more than the next guy.  Insane.

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

I’m not saying you are wrong, but I just wanted to point something crazy out.  Gretzky had a stretch of 6 consecutive years where he not just led the league in scoring, he did it while having over 65 points more than the next guy.  Insane.

I agree.  I can't argue he isn't great and it is hard to not say he wasn't the 'best ever' simply because of the numbers. Numbers rarely lie.  That 92 goal season was insane.  You can look at it another way through...for the first segment of his career (from when he started in the NHL until the year before Lemieux came into the league) 1977-78 to 1983-84, he had 356 goals.  Bossy had 416 and Dionne had 351 over that same time period. Gretzky did have more goals-per-game though.

From 1984-85 (When Lemiuex came into the league) until 189-90 (when Lemieux first started missing major games due to his injury/ and or illness), Gretzky had 321, Lemieux had 345 and Lemiuex did it in less games.

Take nothing away from either of those guys, but a lot of it has to do with Goaltending just not being as good decades ago as it was now.  When looking this up I looked at shooting percentages...over the course of multiple seasons, guys like Lemieux had a 20.6% shooting percentage, Gretzky was at 17.4, and Jari Kurri was 23.4% over 5 seasons.

[Pimlach]

23 hours ago, dudacek said:

The Athletic has started a new project ranking and profiling the NHL’s best players of the modern era, which coincides with expansion.

Criteria is anyone who has played 400 NHL games since 1967.

https://theathletic.com/3550299/2022/10/14/nhl99-ranking-the-greatest-players-in-modern-nhl-history/

Gretzky has already been crowned #1, they are counting down the rest of the top 100, starting this week with 100 Marc-Andre Fleury, 99 Kris Letang, 98 Guy Lapointe, 97 Henrik Zetterberg and 96 Johnny Bucyk.

Im curious which Sabres people think belong on the list and where?

 

#96 John Bucyk?    Interesting guy.  He played 23 years in the NHL and 12 were post expansion. Over 300 of his 556 goals where post expansion.   He is the tale of two eras.  Pre expansion he was a good, maybe a very good 20 goal player.   Post expansion he benefited greatly from Orr, Esposito, and longevity.  
 

I am not a fan of these lists either. 

[DarthEbriate]

The only Gretzky stat I need to list him #1 is this: If he had never scored a single goal (like Muel so far!) he would still be the NHL career leader in points.

(p.s. Jagr would've caught him if not for lockouts and playing in Europe.)

[#freejame]

42 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

The only Gretzky stat I need to list him #1 is this: If he had never scored a single goal (like Muel so far!) he would still be the NHL career leader in points.

(p.s. Jagr would've caught him if not for lockouts and playing in Europe.)

Unless the lockout and playing in Europe helped extend his career. 

[Skibum]

Hasek (top 10), Perrault (top 25), and Housley (could be anywhere) should all make it. 

I want to think LaFontaine and Hawerchuk make it if Zetterberg did, but it's a crowded field.  Mogilny and Andreychuk probably don't get the nod. 

Edited October 16, 2022 by Skibum

[DarthEbriate]

4 hours ago, #freejame said:

Unless the lockout and playing in Europe helped extend his career. 

I don't think that's the case. He was super durable because he was basically a tank on skates. He never missed a bunch of games from injury.

Just to check: Jagr had 74 pts before the 2004 lockout, scored just fine overseas during lockout, and then benefitted from the same rules as the reborn Sabres by netting 123 pts in 2005. So figure 70ish more points if no lockout.

Then, he did three more seasons overseas (he was healthy all 3 years in terms of GP). Then, he returned and was still in the 40s-60s each year (except the 2013-14 half season lockout) and a couple seasons at the end. 4 more top-six seasons: that's somewhere around 200-280 more points he left on the table.

[tom webster]

If Johnny Buick made it, there may be room for that Sabre great, Clark Gillies.

[dudacek]

Pat Lafontaine comes in at 94.

https://theathletic.com/3637201/2022/10/18/nhl99-pat-lafontaine/

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Sort of off topic, but the NHLNetwork had the French Connection as the 2nd best line of all time.  

That said Perreault will make the list but maybe top 50.  No Cups.  

[dudacek]

Another sabre drops: Alex Mogilny, fittingly at 89.

https://theathletic.com/3666529/2022/10/24/nhl-99-alexander-mogilny/

 

[matter2003]

On 10/16/2022 at 7:03 AM, Curt said:

I’m not saying you are wrong, but I just wanted to point something crazy out.  Gretzky had a stretch of 6 consecutive years where he not just led the league in scoring, he did it while having over 65 points more than the next guy.  Insane.

Agree, it's Gretzky and it's not close.

[GASabresIUFAN]

If Mogilny made the cut, how far behind can Andreychuk be?  Hawerchuk is now certainly on the list soon.

What about Housley?  Isn’t he the early prototype for this era’s offensive defensemen? He’s 2nd behind Modano in points by a US born player. (Brett Hull saw born in Belleville Ont).  He is also 4th all-time for D in points and goals behind only Bourque, Coffey and Macinnis. That’s pretty elite company. 

[Weave]

Pleasantly surprised Mogilny made the cut.  Maybe Wowee does too.