GDT: Panthers @ Sabres 10/15/2022, 1pm, MSG, ESPN+, BSFL, WGR

[Taro T]

And the one other thing meant to add in the game write up. 

Very impressed w/ Tuch standing up for IIRC Jokiharju when Tkachuk submarined him.  Like to see them standing up for each other.  And not at all surprising it was Tuch leading that.

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, nfreeman said:

- I thought Mitts took a step back from his performance vs Ottawa and was pretty lousy -- although DG evidently didn't think so as MItts led all forwards in ice time.

This is so strange but I'm sort of intrigued by it. We were talking about this Mitts thing last game and had opposite views. This time I thought he was better and you thought he was worse. I haven't figured out how we are seeing this so opposite yet. Let's see how this plays out over the next 10 games or so. 

[Broken Ankles]

3 hours ago, Taro T said:

Only read the 1st 3-4 pages of this thread.  Sorry in advance for repeats of what was already posted.

Didn't hear what the official attendance was (guessing ~12k), eyeballing it would say there were actually 7-8k in the building but would believe it if somebody said ~6,500.  Very disappointing, but before the STH wait list started October games were a tough sell (though never this tough) so still expect to see attendance pick up mid-season.  But they still need to lower the PA system from an 11.  Waaaay too loud.

Agree on the 7k estimate.  Swaths of empty seats in the 100’s. Visiting the parents with my son this week, so I did a kids day purchase.  My ticket was $39 and $15 for my son. Then made our way to section 119 for the 3rd period. One the reasons I had to leave the 300s was an annoying spotlight that was blinding me every 60 seconds. WTF, why?

[nfreeman]

4 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

This is so strange but I'm sort of intrigued by it. We were talking about this Mitts thing last game and had opposite views. This time I thought he was better and you thought he was worse. I haven't figured out how we are seeing this so opposite yet. Let's see how this plays out over the next 10 games or so. 

I thought the same thing!

I thought Mitts was pretty ineffective yesterday, but I'm encouraged that you thought he looked better.

To be continued.
 

[Ducky]

Is Mitts playing the wing?

Glad most of you are happy with Comrie.

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, Ducky said:

Is Mitts playing the wing?

Glad most of you are happy with Comrie.

Data: incomplete.

He hasn’t done anything yet to hint that he can be a viable starter, but I’d also say he hasn’t done anything yet to definitively rule out that possibility. 

Has not been bad, has also not provided impact value. 

Only one game. I think his expected goals was about what he let up. 

Edited October 16, 2022 by Thorny

[SABRES 0311]

5 hours ago, Doohickie said:

But they clicked in the AHL.  The thought is put them in the combination where they've been successful.  Donny seems to be trying it here and there (after PP/PK sequences I think); let's see if it becomes a more regular thing.

I think this is somewhat by design; Donny Meatballs said he is encouraging them to "just play" but is making corrections in the locker room.

I know what you’re saying. I just think Quinn would be better off on a line with vets than fellow rookies. Krebs, I don’t know what the answer is. Peterka seems to be doing well where he’s at.

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, Ducky said:

Is Mitts playing the wing?

Glad most of you are happy with Comrie.

No.  Even when Cozens was on that line in place of Quinn, Mittelstadt was the C.

Krebs has been on the W except for~4 shifts in the Florida game late in the 1st & early in the 2nd when he centered Peterka & Quinn.

Cozens has been at C except for those few shifts w/ Mitts.

Asplund & Thompson have been exclusively at C.

[dudacek]

8 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

I think numbers all season will still be way down. Box office prices IMO are high, and the great attendance numbers in the last 20 years were due to crazy numbers of STH at a more reasonable price. 

Just read a piece where the Sabres were right down at the bottom of the league.

It was an article where they lumped in parking and concessions and ticket prices and I’m pretty sure Buffalo was the second -lowest out of the 32 teams.

[dudacek]

Found it. It was an Athletic piece from March.

Actually Buffalo was 3rd from bottom at $347 “based on the average cost of four non-premium tickets, two beers, two sodas, four hot dogs, two souvenir hats (as a proxy for merch buying) and parking.”

Average NHL price was $463. Florida and Arizona were the two rinks cheaper than the Sabres. The Leafs topped the charts at $698.

https://theathletic.com/3200274/2022/03/23/florida-panthers-remain-the-nhls-best-deal-for-fans-but-the-others-may-surprise-you/

Edited October 17, 2022 by dudacek

[Huckleberry]

29 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Found it. It was an Athletic piece from March.

Actually Buffalo was 3rd from bottom at $347 “based on the average cost of four non-premium tickets, two beers, two sodas, four hot dogs, two souvenir hats (as a proxy for merch buying) and parking.”

Average NHL price was $463. Florida and Arizona were the two rinks cheaper than the Sabres. The Leafs topped the charts at $698.

https://theathletic.com/3200274/2022/03/23/florida-panthers-remain-the-nhls-best-deal-for-fans-but-the-others-may-surprise-you/

For one game ? 🤯  What do you guys do rest of month ? 

[WhenWillItEnd66]

After watching this game i came away a bit bummed that our team cannot handle a trap or heavy neutral zone pressure, but happy that they were fighting and  trying to go toe to toe with the best team in the NHL. It is only game 2 and i am not going to make any judgements for now. Lots to adjust to and they all seem to be sticking up for each other. I do think they need Hinny's speed. For some reason, the team looks a bit slow.

[LabattBlue]

12 hours ago, dudacek said:

Found it. It was an Athletic piece from March.

Actually Buffalo was 3rd from bottom at $347 “based on the average cost of four non-premium tickets, two beers, two sodas, four hot dogs, two souvenir hats (as a proxy for merch buying) and parking.”

Average NHL price was $463. Florida and Arizona were the two rinks cheaper than the Sabres. The Leafs topped the charts at $698.

https://theathletic.com/3200274/2022/03/23/florida-panthers-remain-the-nhls-best-deal-for-fans-but-the-others-may-surprise-you/

Well then…Sabres fans must not realize what a great deal they are missing out on. 🤔

[BlowLeafsBlow123]

3 hours ago, NJhopelessSabresfan66 said:

After watching this game i came away a bit bummed that our team cannot handle a trap or heavy neutral zone pressure, but happy that they were fighting and  trying to go toe to toe with the best team in the NHL. It is only game 2 and i am not going to make any judgements for now. Lots to adjust to and they all seem to be sticking up for each other. I do think they need Hinny's speed. For some reason, the team looks a bit slow.

Longtime lurker, first time poster ...

They look slower than they should, and that's because they're not in rhythm and the lines are jiving outside of the bottom 6.  They seem to struggle with the bigger/faster teams with strong two-way centers at the top of their lineup.  I think one of the biggest reasons for this is Tage simply isn't good enough to fight through Barkov and Bergeron bearing down on him. His splits again Boston and Florida last season are paltry at best and should be of concern moving forward:

Against FL/BOS in 21/22 season:

8 Games - 1G 3A -9

Is it just me or is that not a potential issue?  I'm sure those guys do that to a lot of lesser first lines but if our goal is an eventual cup contender, we need someone that can go toe to toe with these guys a bit more effectively. He got skunked in 5 out of those 8 games. Oddly enough, he was also skunked by Ottawa in both games he played against them last year and now this year as well. He feasted on teams like Montreal, Philly and even Toronto, who play a less structured game.  However, I'm concerned that we're hitching our wagon to a Center that isn't able to step his play up against better opponents with any regularity and it seems to be a certain type of team that simply shuts him down.  Perhaps this points to him being better suited as a complimentary player, but that contract would suggest they see him as at least a 1B Center. I'm willing to give him this season to figure it out getting top minutes, but if things don't get better against the good teams they will need to consider re-allocating top line minutes accordingly.  We could really use Cozens developing into a true 2-way beast, because he might be able to force the issue against the big boys.

[dudacek]

10 minutes ago, BlowLeafsBlow123 said:

Longtime lurker, first time poster ...

They look slower than they should, and that's because they're not in rhythm and the lines are jiving outside of the bottom 6.  They seem to struggle with the bigger/faster teams with strong two-way centers at the top of their lineup.  I think one of the biggest reasons for this is Tage simply isn't good enough to fight through Barkov and Bergeron bearing down on him. His splits again Boston and Florida last season are paltry at best and should be of concern moving forward:

Against FL/BOS in 21/22 season:

8 Games - 1G 3A -9

Is it just me or is that not a potential issue?  I'm sure those guys do that to a lot of lesser first lines but if our goal is an eventual cup contender, we need someone that can go toe to toe with these guys a bit more effectively. He got skunked in 5 out of those 8 games. Oddly enough, he was also skunked by Ottawa in both games he played against them last year and now this year as well. He feasted on teams like Montreal, Philly and even Toronto, who play a less structured game.  However, I'm concerned that we're hitching our wagon to a Center that isn't able to step his play up against better opponents with any regularity and it seems to be a certain type of team that simply shuts him down.  Perhaps this points to him being better suited as a complimentary player, but that contract would suggest they see him as at least a 1B Center. I'm willing to give him this season to figure it out getting top minutes, but if things don't get better against the good teams they will need to consider re-allocating top line minutes accordingly.  We could really use Cozens developing into a true 2-way beast, because he might be able to force the issue against the big boys.

Good observations.

Where I might disagree is your thought that Tage is being tapped and paid to anchor their first line.

I think the proper role is 2C and the contract reflects that.

The issue is the roster right now demands him to be a 1C.

[nfreeman]

18 minutes ago, BlowLeafsBlow123 said:

Longtime lurker, first time poster ...

They look slower than they should, and that's because they're not in rhythm and the lines are jiving outside of the bottom 6.  They seem to struggle with the bigger/faster teams with strong two-way centers at the top of their lineup.  I think one of the biggest reasons for this is Tage simply isn't good enough to fight through Barkov and Bergeron bearing down on him. His splits again Boston and Florida last season are paltry at best and should be of concern moving forward:

Against FL/BOS in 21/22 season:

8 Games - 1G 3A -9

Is it just me or is that not a potential issue?  I'm sure those guys do that to a lot of lesser first lines but if our goal is an eventual cup contender, we need someone that can go toe to toe with these guys a bit more effectively. He got skunked in 5 out of those 8 games. Oddly enough, he was also skunked by Ottawa in both games he played against them last year and now this year as well. He feasted on teams like Montreal, Philly and even Toronto, who play a less structured game.  However, I'm concerned that we're hitching our wagon to a Center that isn't able to step his play up against better opponents with any regularity and it seems to be a certain type of team that simply shuts him down.  Perhaps this points to him being better suited as a complimentary player, but that contract would suggest they see him as at least a 1B Center. I'm willing to give him this season to figure it out getting top minutes, but if things don't get better against the good teams they will need to consider re-allocating top line minutes accordingly.  We could really use Cozens developing into a true 2-way beast, because he might be able to force the issue against the big boys.

Welcome!  Good stuff here -- please keep posting!

 

[SwampD]

12 minutes ago, BlowLeafsBlow123 said:

Longtime lurker, first time poster ...

They look slower than they should, and that's because they're not in rhythm and the lines are jiving outside of the bottom 6.  They seem to struggle with the bigger/faster teams with strong two-way centers at the top of their lineup.  I think one of the biggest reasons for this is Tage simply isn't good enough to fight through Barkov and Bergeron bearing down on him. His splits again Boston and Florida last season are paltry at best and should be of concern moving forward:

Against FL/BOS in 21/22 season:

8 Games - 1G 3A -9

Is it just me or is that not a potential issue?  I'm sure those guys do that to a lot of lesser first lines but if our goal is an eventual cup contender, we need someone that can go toe to toe with these guys a bit more effectively. He got skunked in 5 out of those 8 games. Oddly enough, he was also skunked by Ottawa in both games he played against them last year and now this year as well. He feasted on teams like Montreal, Philly and even Toronto, who play a less structured game.  However, I'm concerned that we're hitching our wagon to a Center that isn't able to step his play up against better opponents with any regularity and it seems to be a certain type of team that simply shuts him down.  Perhaps this points to him being better suited as a complimentary player, but that contract would suggest they see him as at least a 1B Center. I'm willing to give him this season to figure it out getting top minutes, but if things don't get better against the good teams they will need to consider re-allocating top line minutes accordingly.  We could really use Cozens developing into a true 2-way beast, because he might be able to force the issue against the big boys.

Welcome to the board.

Yeah, I agree with duds. In fact, I’m not sure anyone thinks Tage is a #1 (and certainly not a top 10, like the two you mentioned) center if we are to make a run.

I do like the exercise of actually comparing or team to good to great teams instead of our previous Sabres team.

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, BlowLeafsBlow123 said:

Longtime lurker, first time poster ...

They look slower than they should, and that's because they're not in rhythm and the lines are jiving outside of the bottom 6.  They seem to struggle with the bigger/faster teams with strong two-way centers at the top of their lineup.  I think one of the biggest reasons for this is Tage simply isn't good enough to fight through Barkov and Bergeron bearing down on him. His splits again Boston and Florida last season are paltry at best and should be of concern moving forward:

Against FL/BOS in 21/22 season:

8 Games - 1G 3A -9

Is it just me or is that not a potential issue?  I'm sure those guys do that to a lot of lesser first lines but if our goal is an eventual cup contender, we need someone that can go toe to toe with these guys a bit more effectively. He got skunked in 5 out of those 8 games. Oddly enough, he was also skunked by Ottawa in both games he played against them last year and now this year as well. He feasted on teams like Montreal, Philly and even Toronto, who play a less structured game.  However, I'm concerned that we're hitching our wagon to a Center that isn't able to step his play up against better opponents with any regularity and it seems to be a certain type of team that simply shuts him down.  Perhaps this points to him being better suited as a complimentary player, but that contract would suggest they see him as at least a 1B Center. I'm willing to give him this season to figure it out getting top minutes, but if things don't get better against the good teams they will need to consider re-allocating top line minutes accordingly.  We could really use Cozens developing into a true 2-way beast, because he might be able to force the issue against the big boys.

I don't see it as an issue per se.  If our top line is not as good as another team's top line you're going to see these kinds of stats, and it's unrealistic to think our top line is going to outperform every other top line.  The key to winning that matchup is in lines 2-4.  The Sabres right now are constructed with 2 second lines, a 2.5 line (optimistically) and a 4th line.  If our bottom 9 outperform the other team's bottom 9, we can still win games if our top line gets caved (as long as they don't get caved too bad).

[BlowLeafsBlow123]

2 hours ago, SwampD said:

Welcome to the board.

Yeah, I agree with duds. In fact, I’m not sure anyone thinks Tage is a #1 (and certainly not a top 10, like the two you mentioned) center if we are to make a run.

I do like the exercise of actually comparing or team to good to great teams instead of our previous Sabres team.

Indeed that's exactly what I'm doing. While yes, we've improved our team play and scoring overall, we still do not match up well with the big dogs of the league (except for Toronto of course).  The top of our conference is a bunch of deep rosters full of big, fast, skilled, and mean teams (Tampa, Florida, Boston, Carolina, Pittsburgh, etc.).  We simply don't have the horses to go line for line with them, especially when Donny is busy experimenting with the makeup of the lines.  

By the time some new contracts kick in over the next few years, Tage will be an average paid second line center, so I see that point fully.  I just hope the management realizes that it's unlikely for him to blossom much more than he has. They should take that house money they found and use it to the fullest, but please don't settle.  The search for a real # 1 center that can hopefully play a strong 2-way game is still on.  I personally don't see that guy on this roster or in the system, unless one of the recent first rounders really really develops.  We'll see how the year goes, but I would think they're still going to target centers in the 2023 draft in what will likely be one more top 10ish pick.

[BlowLeafsBlow123]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

I don't see it as an issue per se.  If our top line is not as good as another team's top line you're going to see these kinds of stats, and it's unrealistic to think our top line is going to outperform every other top line.  The key to winning that matchup is in lines 2-4.  The Sabres right now are constructed with 2 second lines, a 2.5 line (optimistically) and a 4th line.  If our bottom 9 outperform the other team's bottom 9, we can still win games if our top line gets caved (as long as they don't get caved too bad).

That's a great way to put it regarding their construction.  When you take an objective look at our team, our first line might be in the bottom 5 of the league.  However, if each of them can put up high 60s in points and we can get 55-60 out of one or two other guys below them we might be competitive.  

I do think you're correct in that our path to winning more than we lose is by our bottom 9 being better than other teams. That certainly seems to be where we have the advantage over several teams in our conference, but requires a couple very nice rookie/sophomore seasons and continued scoring touch from Okposo and Girgs. I really think if Cozens continues his step and can somehow become a 55-60 point two way center, a lot of our problems will work themselves out. 

[SwampD]

30 minutes ago, BlowLeafsBlow123 said:

Indeed that's exactly what I'm doing. While yes, we've improved our team play and scoring overall, we still do not match up well with the big dogs of the league (except for Toronto of course).  The top of our conference is a bunch of deep rosters full of big, fast, skilled, and mean teams (Tampa, Florida, Boston, Carolina, Pittsburgh, etc.).  We simply don't have the horses to go line for line with them, especially when Donny is busy experimenting with the makeup of the lines.  

By the time some new contracts kick in over the next few years, Tage will be an average paid second line center, so I see that point fully.  I just hope the management realizes that it's unlikely for him to blossom much more than he has. They should take that house money they found and use it to the fullest, but please don't settle.  The search for a real # 1 center that can hopefully play a strong 2-way game is still on.  I personally don't see that guy on this roster or in the system, unless one of the recent first rounders really really develops.  We'll see how the year goes, but I would think they're still going to target centers in the 2023 draft in what will likely be one more top 10ish pick.

Ugh. Why did Eichel have to be so toxic?!

Our team as it stands now, with a non-poisonous Eichel would sooo much fun to watch.

[BlowLeafsBlow123]

22 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Ugh. Why did Eichel have to be so toxic?!

Our team as it stands now, with a non-poisonous Eichel would sooo much fun to watch.

Yes, yes it would.  Having any of (non-toxic) Eichel, O'Reilly or Reinhart would be a huge help right now.  Remember how good O'Reilly and Reinhart were when Eichel was hurt that one year?

We are severely short on top-end talent with Savoie being the only hope for a first liner eventually (our new Briere!). I could maybe be talked into Östlund or Kulich getting there eventually, but the more likely scenario is for those guys to be good complimentary players. The organization is still going to need one or two top line talents in the system to become a real threat in the conference.  Adding that to our d-core and (hopefully) Devon Levi, and they might have something legit.

My hope is that some guys squeak free via trade next offseason, as we're going to be chocked full with prospects and not have enough spots for them to all develop.  Look for guys like Mitts, Olofsson, Rosen, etc. to become trade-bait at some point. A Skinner buyout is still something I'd be looking at over the next couple of off-seasons.  They are going to need that roster spot opened up, and to change the makeup of the team.

[Getpucksdeep]

On 10/15/2022 at 5:35 PM, LabattBlue said:

I want a defenseman who knows what he is doing in his own end, and isn’t getting caught out of position leading to odd man rushes.  If that needs to be learned, learn at the AHL level. 
 

I don’t see this poise at all. 

🤪

[SwampD]

On 10/15/2022 at 5:35 PM, LabattBlue said:

I want a defenseman who knows what he is doing in his own end, and isn’t getting caught out of position leading to odd man rushes.  If that needs to be learned, learn at the AHL level. 
 

I don’t see this poise at all. 

Why?

Unless there is someone better in Rochester to bring up in his stead. He’ll learn it much faster on the Sabres.

Edited October 17, 2022 by SwampD

[inkman]

7 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Well then…Sabres fans must not realize what a great deal they are missing out on. 🤔

This was the first time I attended a Sabres game since 2019.  I straight up laughed in the servers face when she told me it was $30 for 2 12 oz Genesee Ruby Reds.  After that I switched to Southern Tier 2X IPA.  I think they cost an extra $2.  I’ll pay the extra 7% cost for 8% ABV.