Around The NHL 2022-23 Regular Season

[Zamboni]

1 hour ago, LTS said:

Really?

The Kraken selected Adam Larsson, Vince Dunn, Jamie Oleksiak, & Carson Soucy in the expansion draft.  Soucy is about the same stats wise as Borgen and the others are all above him.  So he's not even in the top 3 defense they received.

Now, let's talk about McCann, Eberle, Gourde, and potentially a few others on Forward.

So Borgen did what here?  Fought?  Big deal.  He's not the difference maker in Seattle and he'd be a JAG here too.

Would it be nice if he were on the roster now?  Potentially. But he's not.. you keep diving back into the history books looking for "what ifs".

Correct, he’s highly replaceable. At best a #5/6. At best. The myth vs reality of Borgen strikes again.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, LTS said:

He's not the difference maker in Seattle and he'd be a JAG here too.

Would it be nice if he were on the roster now?  Potentially. But he's not.. you keep diving back into the history books looking for "what ifs".

Borgen's better than Stillman. That is all. 

[JohnC]

10 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Borgen's better than Stillman. That is all. 

Whether that is true or not it is an inconsequential issue. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

Whether that is true or not it is an inconsequential issue. 

Everything in the past is inconsequential.........we can go zen on this if you like but then why have a Sabrespace cause everything will just be what it is.

D depth is a problem on this team. KA needs to address that further than he has as the prospect pool for D can't make this go away for next year with his internal development plan. That's the real issue. 

[JohnC]

7 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Everything in the past is inconsequential.........we can go zen on this if you like but then why have a Sabrespace cause everything will just be what it is.

D depth is a problem on this team. KA needs to address that further than he has as the prospect pool for D can't make this go away for next year with his internal development plan. That's the real issue. 

You don't think that the GM realizes he needs an upgrade to the unit? Why do you think he pursued Chycrun? The Borgen comparison to Stillman is a discussion over players who are marginally different, better or worse. 

[PerreaultForever]

19 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You don't think that the GM realizes he needs an upgrade to the unit? Why do you think he pursued Chycrun? The Borgen comparison to Stillman is a discussion over players who are marginally different, better or worse. 

Does he realize it? Good question. Seems to me he could have and should have acted on it much earlier and before the season even started. It's not just about Cjhychrun. That was just one option, one trade. It wasn't and isn't about try to get Chychrun and if that fails just shrug and go oh well we tried. 

We will see if he addresses it properly in the off season. 

[Sabres73]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Does he realize it? Good question. Seems to me he could have and should have acted on it much earlier and before the season even started. It's not just about Cjhychrun. That was just one option, one trade. It wasn't and isn't about try to get Chychrun and if that fails just shrug and go oh well we tried. 

We will see if he addresses it properly in the off season. 

Jeez man, you're sounding like a broken record. We get it, you've made the same point dozens of times now. Can you give it a rest for crying out loud? 

[thewookie1]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Does he realize it? Good question. Seems to me he could have and should have acted on it much earlier and before the season even started. It's not just about Cjhychrun. That was just one option, one trade. It wasn't and isn't about try to get Chychrun and if that fails just shrug and go oh well we tried. 

We will see if he addresses it properly in the off season. 

There isn’t exactly a Walmart for Top4 D that KA can merely walk in and pay for. I think he understands there’s an issue with our current Defense. Last year he brought in Lybushkin, this year he brought in Stillman and targeted Chychrun. He is specifically looking for bigger more defensively skewed Dmen that fall within a certain age group. He gave Bryson a chance along with Fitzgerald, Pilut and Clague and none of them truly picked it up and ran with it. Bryson is built like an offensive defenseman but rarely generates offense and is physically overwhelmed in our zone. Pilut is very much Bryson 2. Fitzgerald was meant to be our RHD depth but the freaking Panthers stole him to only sit in their press box. Clague has been good for spells like the others but is terribly inconsistent in general. As such he acquired Stillman for his size and potential to fight for the 3LHD spot and depth. And targeted Chychrun to better fill the Top 4. This tells me that he very well May of hoped for a Defense of 

Dahlin, Samuelsson, Power, Chychrun, Jokiharju and Lybushkin with Stillman and Bryson as extras. Clague being waived and then brought back up after the roster opened. 

[Eleven]

6 hours ago, LTS said:

Really?

The Kraken selected Adam Larsson, Vince Dunn, Jamie Oleksiak, & Carson Soucy in the expansion draft.  Soucy is about the same stats wise as Borgen and the others are all above him.  So he's not even in the top 3 defense they received.

Now, let's talk about McCann, Eberle, Gourde, and potentially a few others on Forward.

So Borgen did what here?  Fought?  Big deal.  He's not the difference maker in Seattle and he'd be a JAG here too.

Would it be nice if he were on the roster now?  Potentially. But he's not.. you keep diving back into the history books looking for "what ifs".

His ceiling is Jake McCabe.  And I like McCabe, but I wouldn't have protected him in an expansion draft.

[Two or less]

3 hours ago, Eleven said:

His ceiling is Jake McCabe.  And I like McCabe, but I wouldn't have protected him in an expansion draft.

Exactly. The debate is silly.

 

[sabrefanday1]

https://www.facebook.com/houseofhockey/photos/a.961614840517331/6375610895784338/

[MattPie]

17 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Does he realize it? Good question. Seems to me he could have and should have acted on it much earlier and before the season even started. It's not just about Cjhychrun. That was just one option, one trade. It wasn't and isn't about try to get Chychrun and if that fails just shrug and go oh well we tried. 

We will see if he addresses it properly in the off season. 

I have zero, and I mean zero, doubt that KA called about every D he could find that fit. Between NMCs, asking prices, and timing it may look like there wasn't anything done but I truly doubt they were just watching youtube videos instead of working.

On asking price: the Sabres are sitting on a goldmine of what appear to be high-level NHL or almost ready for NHL prospects and other GMs know this. They're not going to ask (for example) Ottawa for the same thing as the Sabres. Ottawa's picks are probably the most valuable thing they have. The Sabres have players.

[PerreaultForever]

21 hours ago, Sabres73 said:

Jeez man, you're sounding like a broken record. We get it, you've made the same point dozens of times now. Can you give it a rest for crying out loud? 

Sure, but I'm not the only one who repeats themselves around here. 

It is the primary issue that we still have to address. Like it or not. 

[PerreaultForever]

21 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

There isn’t exactly a Walmart for Top4 D that KA can merely walk in and pay for. I think he understands there’s an issue with our current Defense. Last year he brought in Lybushkin, this year he brought in Stillman and targeted Chychrun. He is specifically looking for bigger more defensively skewed Dmen that fall within a certain age group. He gave Bryson a chance along with Fitzgerald, Pilut and Clague and none of them truly picked it up and ran with it. Bryson is built like an offensive defenseman but rarely generates offense and is physically overwhelmed in our zone. Pilut is very much Bryson 2. Fitzgerald was meant to be our RHD depth but the freaking Panthers stole him to only sit in their press box. Clague has been good for spells like the others but is terribly inconsistent in general. As such he acquired Stillman for his size and potential to fight for the 3LHD spot and depth. And targeted Chychrun to better fill the Top 4. This tells me that he very well May of hoped for a Defense of 

Dahlin, Samuelsson, Power, Chychrun, Jokiharju and Lybushkin with Stillman and Bryson as extras. Clague being waived and then brought back up after the roster opened. 

Ya, that would have addressed the issue and it would have been good. Why I said I would have been willing to overpay for Chychrun. But since he didn't make that deal, okay he saved the draft capital but with lower first rounders and second rounders you're not going to get another Owen Power to step right in it'll be a 2-3 year project and so to make the playoffs next year he needs to find someone else to fill that second pairing spot. 

If it stays just in house development it'll be another year like this one and we will likely be outside looking in again. 

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, MattPie said:

I have zero, and I mean zero, doubt that KA called about every D he could find that fit. Between NMCs, asking prices, and timing it may look like there wasn't anything done but I truly doubt they were just watching youtube videos instead of working.

On asking price: the Sabres are sitting on a goldmine of what appear to be high-level NHL or almost ready for NHL prospects and other GMs know this. They're not going to ask (for example) Ottawa for the same thing as the Sabres. Ottawa's picks are probably the most valuable thing they have. The Sabres have players.

Well that's purely speculative. You are just making guesses and assumptions. I can only respond to what he did or didn't do, not to what he might have done or tried to have done in the back room. GMs who get things done are successes. GMs who don't are failures. 

imo he could have done more and we could have made the playoffs and that would NOT have meant selling off the future either. 

But whatever, it's too late now. Have to hope he gets it done for next year so we're not saying all this again in 365 days. 

[LTS]

On 4/5/2023 at 2:22 PM, PerreaultForever said:

Borgen's better than Stillman. That is all. 

And Stillman was not on the roster to leave unprotected.  I'm also reading all of your "improve the defense" comments.  Borgen doesn't improve the defense all that much.  And so pointing out Borgen is not really relevant to your point of improving the defense.

You can go on and on about how to improve the defense, but at least use relevant arguments.  Borgen would not fix the situation in Buffalo right now.  Not if you are advocating for players like Chychrun.  If you think it takes a Chychrun to improve the team then Borgen is not at that level.

 

[MattPie]

12 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Well that's purely speculative. You are just making guesses and assumptions. I can only respond to what he did or didn't do, not to what he might have done or tried to have done in the back room. GMs who get things done are successes. GMs who don't are failures. 

imo he could have done more and we could have made the playoffs and that would NOT have meant selling off the future either. 

But whatever, it's too late now. Have to hope he gets it done for next year so we're not saying all this again in 365 days. 

And, frankly, you're speculating that he tried to acquire one guy (Chychrun) and failed, and did nothing else.

Bold: GMTM got things done. He was not a success. Ottawa's GM this year got things done. They are also going to miss the playoffs.

[Zamboni]

28 minutes ago, MattPie said:

And, frankly, you're speculating that he tried to acquire one guy (Chychrun) and failed, and did nothing else.

Bold: GMTM got things done. He was not a success. Ottawa's GM this year got things done. They are also going to miss the playoffs.

I think that’s the blindspot of a lot of fans. They ignorantly think the GM is doing nothing. And therefore is a failure because he’s doing nothing. Or they ignorantly think the GM is doing everything, but it just hasn’t gone his way yet. Then they base their opinions on those two extreme viewpoints.
 

The thread I made a couple years ago regarding everything KA has done, definitely is in contrast to the mindset that the GM is doing nothing. Because “nothing“ and “not enough“ are two different things, but sometimes they get mashed together to mean the same thing by some fans. At least that’s how I see it.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Zamboni

[Andrew Amerk]

Looks like the Pens, Panthers, and Isles are all gonna win their games tonight. 

[DarthEbriate]

The Panthers have a chance now that they've gotten past Bobrovsky and found Lyon. In his last 5 games, he's saved 38/40, 18/20, 21/21, 39/40 (BUF), and tonight was 56/58. That's 5 wins in a row and kicking in the playoff door for them. Sheesh.

[PerreaultForever]

9 hours ago, LTS said:

And Stillman was not on the roster to leave unprotected.  I'm also reading all of your "improve the defense" comments.  Borgen doesn't improve the defense all that much.  And so pointing out Borgen is not really relevant to your point of improving the defense.

You can go on and on about how to improve the defense, but at least use relevant arguments.  Borgen would not fix the situation in Buffalo right now.  Not if you are advocating for players like Chychrun.  If you think it takes a Chychrun to improve the team then Borgen is not at that level.

 

Borgen would not "fix" the problem but he would have been solid D depth. He's as good as Lybushkin, but with more of a physical edge. Solid bottom pairing player.

9 hours ago, MattPie said:

And, frankly, you're speculating that he tried to acquire one guy (Chychrun) and failed, and did nothing else.

Bold: GMTM got things done. He was not a success. Ottawa's GM this year got things done. They are also going to miss the playoffs.

Incorrect. I'm not speculating on anything. I (among other people) identified defensive depth as a problem before this season started. Back to last year's free agency. KA hasn't fixed it. That's a simple fact. The rest is speculation. 

[Gatorman0519]

It’s laughable Seattle makes the playoffs year two and here we are languishing 12 years later. That alone should show what an incredible run of futility we are on. 

[Turbo44]

19 hours ago, LTS said:

And Stillman was not on the roster to leave unprotected.  I'm also reading all of your "improve the defense" comments.  Borgen doesn't improve the defense all that much.  And so pointing out Borgen is not really relevant to your point of improving the defense.

You can go on and on about how to improve the defense, but at least use relevant arguments.  Borgen would not fix the situation in Buffalo right now.  Not if you are advocating for players like Chychrun.  If you think it takes a Chychrun to improve the team then Borgen is not at that level.

 

There were to options to leave unprotected: Borgen and Risto. Risto ended up getting a 1st+ in a trade, Borgen would have not gotten even close to that

[Broken Ankles]

18 minutes ago, Turbo44 said:

There were to options to leave unprotected: Borgen and Risto. Risto ended up getting a 1st+ in a trade, Borgen would have not gotten even close to that

the "+" is Levi.  The first alone is enough to shut down that debate. 

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

the "+" is Levi.  The first alone is enough to shut down that debate. 

Levi was fruit of the Reinhart trade, not the Ristolainen trade.