When is the Time to Trade Girgensens?

[JoeSchmoe]

With the log jam on forward, I have him as my 13th man with JJP in the starting lineup, Bjork waived, and Sheahan sent down for call up in case of injury.

Would he take a 13th man job given his leadership role? We kind of need him for depth until we get a few more of the young prospects ready.

I feel he's about the last of the JAGs that have made us suck for so long. It's fun seeing him throw the odd hit, but it's not fun watching him blow the number of scoring chances he blows.

 

[Zamboni]

I have a sneaking suspicion they don’t want a $2.2 million popcorn munching press box vet who only gets the occasional game.

Not to mention, the coaching staff and GM value him and view him as much more than a JAG. 
 

Sooooo it’s not gonna happen the way it seems you are hoping it happens.

[msw2112]

I'd like to keep Girgensons on the roster.  He's a solid veteran player.  He provides leadership, hustle, two-way play, and some level of scoring ability.  You need to have a few veterans on the roster.  He's a good bottom six forward and his contract is not outrageous.  I don't think he was part of the problem, except that perhaps, at times in his career, he was cast as a top 6 player and not a bottom 6 player, which he has turned out to be (and is paid to be).  Eventually, as some of the younger guys mature and take on larger roles, he will work his way off the roster, but not this season.

Edited September 21, 2022 by msw2112

[Curt]

Girgensons will be on the team, and in the starting 12 for most of the season.  It’s possible he gets traded depending on how the season goes.

I don’t think JJP is a sure thing to start in the NHL.

[mjd1001]

You don't trade him.

He is actually decent in terms of scoring 5v5 per 60.  Every indication is he is a great locker room guy.  And he doesn't just kill penalties, from what I can tell he is actually very, very good at it. 

He can fill in on a higher line for short periods of time in case you need him to due to injury, and he may not produce much there but he won't embarrass himself like other 4th liners do.

You need a guy like that on your 4th line, so keep him.

Edited September 21, 2022 by mjd1001

[MattPie]

7 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

You don't trade him.

He is actually decent in terms of scoring 5v5 per 60.  Every indication is he is a great locker room guy.  And he doesn't just kill penalties, from what I can tell he is actually very, very good at it. 

He can fill in on a higher line for short periods of time in case you need him to due to injury, and he may not produce much there but he won't embarrass himself like other 4th liners do.

You need a guy like that on your 4th line, so keep him.

Same. Teams aren't all young scoring forwards, if it really becomes a thing, maybe you trade one of the younger guys that don't fit into the plan for a piece that you need. If one of the younger guys truly matches Girgensens full skillset, then we can talk.

[Pimlach]

48 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

With the log jam on forward, I have him as my 13th man with JJP in the starting lineup, Bjork waived, and Sheahan sent down for call up in case of injury.

Would he take a 13th man job given his leadership role? We kind of need him for depth until we get a few more of the young prospects ready.

I feel he's about the last of the JAGs that have made us suck for so long. It's fun seeing him throw the odd hit, but it's not fun watching him blow the number of scoring chances he blows.

 

How about if we let JJP actually beat out Girgensens before we give him the job?   Isn't that the culture we want?  

This team is very young, we need a few vets.  Girgs is a hard working good soldier.  If by the end of the year we see that a trade is beneficial then we address it. 

[GoPuckYourself]

What are you possibly going to get of value for him? I think he's more important to this roster as a bottom tier hard working forward who is a grinder, we don't have many of those left imo.

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

7 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

How about if we let JJP actually beat out Girgensens before we give him the job?   Isn't that the culture we want?  

This team is very young, we need a few vets.  Girgs is a hard working good soldier.  If by the end of the year we see that a trade is beneficial then we address it. 

I don’t disagree, I just think that’s a very big if to assume JJP (or insert any unproven rookies name here) beats out Girgs in the checking line/PK role.  

Also, you don’t necessarily want to trade your character vet(s) for a 4-7th rounder when you are in another developmental season IF he is helping those younger players learn the game at this level.  

Now if I get offered a 2nd or 3rd rounder for him, I’m making that trade in a heartbeat no matter the situation…

[Marvin]

Guys like Zemgus are very valuable, particularly to a very young, green team.  I'd give him an extension at about his current salary before trading him even enters my mind.

[RochesterExpat]

I am deeply offended that you called Zemgus 'NHL All Star' Girgensons a JAG. How dare you disparage the Latvian Locomotive like that?

You seem to forget in the 2019-2020 season he finished 5th(!) on the team in scoring.

He's the only player that didn't have a down season in 2020-2021. 

Come on, what JAGs have songs in their honor???

On a serious note, he's a role player and he plays that role well.  Is he a flashy, high-powered offensive weapon? Not in the least.  But, for forwards, he was second only to John Hayden in hits. He was third in blocked shots by a forward. His FO% was second best among centers or first if we want to pretend Cody Eakin wasn't here.

There is also something to be said about leadership.

[GASabresIUFAN]

At the trade deadline.  

[Stads]

It'd be nice to show the man enough respect to spell his name correct in the title. I have always loved his energy and his "whatever you need me to do" attitude. If we are well out of a playoff spot nearing the deadline, move him to a contender if possible. I personally would like to see him playing in big games

[JoeSchmoe]

I guess I'm in the minority here. I like Z's effort, but I just don't think he's very good. Yes, he got uncharacteristically hot at the beginning of last year, but for the most part, he's been a large part of the umpteen seasons with no playoffs. 

Let's load up on skill guys and let them kill penalties... Like the Bruins. And then when we're not shorthanded, our 4th line will seriously outscore their 4th line.

 

[Taro T]

Am hoping the answer to the Q is "never."

Expect Girgensons to be useful in his 60ish healthy games played and don't see much of a trade market for him.  Hope he gets a 1-2 year contract this off-season & the Sabres getting 1-2 more good years out of him but at his age,, if he does take a step back, no point in trading him because they won't get anything of value back..  So he then retires a Sabre.  Darn few guys have gone cradle to grave w/ the Sabres; would like to see him add 1 more to the list.

[LGR4GM]

I have no interest in trading Zemgus this season. 

[Huckleberry]

yeah keep him, unless some crazy offer but I'm not trading a corner stone leader.

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, JoeSchmoe said:

I guess I'm in the minority here. I like Z's effort, but I just don't think he's very good. Yes, he got uncharacteristically hot at the beginning of last year, but for the most part, he's been a large part of the umpteen seasons with no playoffs. 

Let's load up on skill guys and let them kill penalties... Like the Bruins. And then when we're not shorthanded, our 4th line will seriously outscore their 4th line.

 

Um, for years on end, the checking line that got nearly historical unfavourable deployment game-in-game-out but had clearly above average possession stats has had one constant: Zemgus Girgensons.  Maybe if he got more typical deployment for a checker rather than bottom 30 all-time unfavourable deployment 5 years running, including 2 of the top 3 places (#1 and 4 are Paul Gaustad), he might hit 15 goals.  He does the dirty jobs exceedingly well, which coaches, GMs, and scouts appreciate.  Every good team can use a player like Girgensons.

[JoeSchmoe]

8 minutes ago, Marvin said:

Um, for years on end, the checking line that got nearly historical unfavourable deployment game-in-game-out but had clearly above average possession stats has had one constant: Zemgus Girgensons.  Maybe if he got more typical deployment for a checker rather than bottom 30 all-time unfavourable deployment 5 years running, including 2 of the top 3 places (#1 and 4 are Paul Gaustad), he might hit 15 goals.  He does the dirty jobs exceedingly well, which coaches, GMs, and scouts appreciate.  Every good team can use a player like Girgensons.

I'd say the latest evidence is that Okposo carried the checking line but if you've got numbers that say otherwise, let's see'em.

[Thorner]

Ya, there’s no logjam. This is just what not being woefully paper thin on depth looks like. Been a while, yes. But it’s normal.

[Weave]

Logjam…. LOL

Every good team has a Zemgus.  We won’t have one if we move him. 

[Thorner]

18 minutes ago, Weave said:

Logjam…. LOL

Every good team has a Zemgus.  We won’t have one if we move him. 

Longest tenured Sabre now, no? 

[JoeSchmoe]

My best lineup this year has Skinner, TNT, Tuch, Krebs, Cozens, Quinn, JJP, Mitts, Oloffson, Hino, Okposo, and Asplund. Girgs and Sheehan are depth guys. And likely needed in case of injury. Of course we waive Bjork.

With more talent likely to emerge next year (Savoie, Kulich(?), and dare I say the "kid" from South Buffalo), I think we will win more without him.

[Marvin]

59 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

I'd say the latest evidence is that Okposo carried the checking line but if you've got numbers that say otherwise, let's see'em.

I can't find the place where I got the stats from the last time someone said Zemgus was "just a guy", so I will look for it once I get a charging cord for my laptop.  Thus, I will go from memory.

I recall Zemgus and Larsson had #2/3, 4/5, and something below 10 in the bottom 25 list for "most unfavourable player deployments" since 2005-6, with Paul Gaustad getting #1, 4, and a couple of others.  Okposo was down there for the median deployment, but his PP time lifted him off the first page for mean deployment.  In the disaster COVID year, Zemgus and Kyle carried that line.  Last season, Kyle was not on the checking line most of the season, yet Zemgus still was getting the bottom deployment.

This is not to gainsay Okposo's contributions to the LOG line or as a checker.  He excelled in that role.  Literally no other line in the NHL that season had a plus game against Pastrnak-Bergeron-Marchand like the LOG line had in one of its first times together.  No matter how good Larsson and Girgensons were at reinventing themselves as checkers, Okposo's presence elevated that line to elite status.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Marvin
Number mistake

[Getpucksdeep]

5 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

My best lineup this year has Skinner, TNT, Tuch, Krebs, Cozens, Quinn, JJP, Mitts, Oloffson, Hino, Okposo, and Asplund. Girgs and Sheehan are depth guys. And likely needed in case of injury. Of course we waive Bjork.

With more talent likely to emerge next year (Savoie, Kulich(?), and dare I say the "kid" from South Buffalo), I think we will win more without him.

It's a good question. Are we over valuing our guy?  I lean towards the value of the vet presence, but if the youngsters are performing it's gonna resurface.  Then if playoff are in reach even more so I think I want Girgs over JJ/ Quinn.