One guy's opinion: Lessons learned from the Sabres rebuild

[grinreaper]

4 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Let's review those decisions, shall we?

Hired Lafontaine who hired Tim Murray. 

He fired Lindy, then hired Rolston, then Nolan again, before hiring Stanley Cup winning coach Disco Dan Bylsma.

Fired Murray and Bylsma and hired Sabres legends Jason Botterill and Phil Housely.

Fired Housely and brought in Megamind Ralph Krueger.

Now how many of those decisions were Terry's alone? Lafontaine and Botterill for sure, then Adams. But didn't Murray and Botterill bring in everyone else, assuming Terry wasn't dictating every move?

 

People don't want a meddling owner until they need someone to blame.  

Edited July 27, 2022 by grinreaper

[Doohicksie]

18 minutes ago, grinreaper said:

Seriously? Choosing KA as the GM was not stumbling. They had their eyes on him for some time and saw something in him that they obviously liked.

I see it differently.  KA worked several positions within the club, getting to know the ownership's traits, advantages and flaws and actively sought out the GM-ship.  He positioned himself as a valued advisor and tipped JBot over the edge and got his foot in the door.  He told the Pegulas his plan; they were impressed but not yet impressed to go with it.  They were still invested in Eichel and Krueger and the direction they were taking the team.  With the big losing streak he finally convinced the Pegulas to can Krueger and try it his way.

I've kind of fan-fictioned that into a yarn that Kevyn staged a coup but I haven't entirely convinced myself that this wasn't the case.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Doohickie

[Doohicksie]

13 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Megamind Ralph Krueger.

😄 😄 😄

[Taro T]

14 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I see it differently.  KA worked several positions within the club, getting to know the ownership's traits, advantages and flaws and actively sought out the GM-ship.  He positioned himself as a valued advisor and tipped JBot over the edge and got his foot in the door.  He told the Pegulas his plan; they were impressed but not yet impressed to go with it.  They were still invested in Eichel and Krueger and the direction they were taking the team.  With the big losing streak he finally convinced the Pegulas to can Krueger and try it his way.

I've kind of fan-fictioned that into a yarn that Kevyn staged a coup but I haven't entirely convinced myself that this wasn't the case.

Not within the "club," within PSE and Harborfront specifically.  He was an assistant coach & then a development coach w/ the Sabres relatively briefly & then spent a lot of time w/ the Hockey Academy and Harborfront itself.  But he wasn't on the Sabres org chart for a long time prior to being made the head of the Sabres hockey department.

[LabattBlue]

40 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Now how many of those decisions were Terry's alone? Lafontaine and Botterill for sure, then Adams. But didn't Murray and Botterill bring in everyone else, assuming Terry wasn't dictating every move?

 

No one here knows for sure how involved Terry has been over the last decade, but the accountability starts at the top, and he has been the top man over the last decade+ of this trainwreck. 

[SabresVet]

24 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

No one here knows for sure how involved Terry has been over the last decade, but the accountability starts at the top, and he has been the top man over the last decade+ of this trainwreck. 

I know someone who covers the team and Terry was opposed to drafting Russian players for some time.  And, that he pushed for Botterill to give those contracts to Eichel and then Skinner.  Also doesn't help they nuked their front office in early to mid 2020.  

There's meddling, and then there's significant meddling.  Yeah, it's their team and they can do what they want, but blaming the NHL for pushing GM candidates on them is weak.  You want credit for the good moves...gotta take the heat for the bad ones too.  

As it relates to the article, we've learned very little about this rebuild because it's incomplete although there are signs this is in a better direction.  That said, last year was Year 0.  2022-23 is Year 1.    

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

No one here knows for sure how involved Terry has been over the last decade, but the accountability starts at the top, and he has been the top man over the last decade+ of this trainwreck. 

And if he turns out around, even after 11 years, does he get the credit? Does he get credit for the Bills?

[DarthEbriate]

2 hours ago, Doohickie said:

I've kind of fan-fictioned that into a yarn that Kevyn staged a coup but I haven't entirely convinced myself that this wasn't the case.

Yes! The GM Sheev 10-year phantom-menace-plan approach.

[Curt]

2 hours ago, Doohickie said:

I see it differently.  KA worked several positions within the club, getting to know the ownership's traits, advantages and flaws and actively sought out the GM-ship.  He positioned himself as a valued advisor and tipped JBot over the edge and got his foot in the door.  He told the Pegulas his plan; they were impressed but not yet impressed to go with it.  They were still invested in Eichel and Krueger and the direction they were taking the team.  With the big losing streak he finally convinced the Pegulas to can Krueger and try it his way.

I've kind of fan-fictioned that into a yarn that Kevyn staged a coup but I haven't entirely convinced myself that this wasn't the case.

You have consistently maintained this half baked opinion.  It’s not full supported by facts, but not disproven by them either.  I can get on board.  There are much worse things to have as a GM than a master manipulator.

[Doohicksie]

17 minutes ago, Curt said:

There are much worse things to have as a GM than a master manipulator.

That's the weird thing though... if my theory is true, he reached the top with no small amount of conniving.  But now that he's there he seems to be using a solid approach to build them and seems to be leader that is curing much of the organization's recent ills.... and he's well liked.

[mjd1001]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Let's review those decisions, shall we?

Hired Lafontaine who hired Tim Murray. 

He fired Lindy, then hired Rolston, then Nolan again, before hiring Stanley Cup winning coach Disco Dan Bylsma.

Fired Murray and Bylsma and hired Sabres legends Jason Botterill and Phil Housely.

Fired Housely and brought in Megamind Ralph Krueger.

Now how many of those decisions were Terry's alone? Lafontaine and Botterill for sure, then Adams. But didn't Murray and Botterill bring in everyone else, assuming Terry wasn't dictating every move?

 

Calm down there, I never said it was Terry and Terry alone.  It is undeniable, however, that the Pegula ownership has had a negative impact on the franchise.  If you don't want to admit that then there is no reason to respond any further. Its obvious.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure Terry had major influence in most of those decisions and certainly signed off on all of them.

[LabattBlue]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

And if he turns out around, even after 11 years, does he get the credit? Does he get credit for the Bills?

Let’s get there first.  What do you think?

[Marvin]

2 hours ago, SabresVet said:

There's meddling, and then there's significant meddling.  Yeah, it's their team and they can do what they want, but blaming the NHL for pushing GM candidates on them is weak.  You want credit for the good moves...gotta take the heat for the bad ones too.  

To be fair to the Pegulas, they did consult with people around the NHL.  Murray and Botterill were both highly regarded around the league.

Having said that, the Pegulas deserve the discredit for hiring them.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Marvin, Sabres Fan

[PromoTheRobot]

4 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

Calm down there, I never said it was Terry and Terry alone.  It is undeniable, however, that the Pegula ownership has had a negative impact on the franchise.  If you don't want to admit that then there is no reason to respond any further. Its obvious.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure Terry had major influence in most of those decisions and certainly signed off on all of them.

Absolutely. The owner has the final say. And it's been brought up here from I assume is a credible source that Terry did get a little more involved in decisions. But I'm sure he also took a lot of advice from people. Maybe even people Gary Bettman recommended. Either way, you can't undo what's done. All that matters is what's coming up. Terry got it right, somehow, with the Bills. And somehow he seems to have it right now with Kevyn Adams and Don Granato. (Who knows? Maybe Beane and McDermott offered some advice on what qualities to look for in a GM?)

4 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Let’s get there first.  What do you think?

I think it'll be something like "yeah this is great but what about the past 11 years?"

[LabattBlue]

18 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I think it'll be something like "yeah this is great but what about the past 11 years?"

Well, we will see.  Maybe I will surprise you. 😂

[North Buffalo]

Lessons learned... dont allow an idiot GM to trade away no 1 draft choices for a goalie