Where do the Sabres Rank in terms of Prospect Pools post draft?

[Stoner]

There's no official ranking of course.

2015 #2 (Bleacher Report)

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2505679-re-ranking-every-teams-prospect-pool-after-2015-nhl-draft

2018 #1 The Sporting News

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nhl/news/nhl-top-prospects-best-worst-farm-system-draft-history-sabres-flyers-canucks-penguins/tn8fb6mqnial16bxvtds5dacu

No cherry picking needed. These landed in my lap with one simple Google search. There are many more spanning many years.

If you're not skeptical about prospect pipelines given what they've amounted to in Buffalo, well, God love ya.

[mjd1001]

On 7/16/2022 at 12:30 AM, GASabresIUFAN said:

Depends on how they define "prospect," although adding 3 centers ranked by Wheeler at 4, 23 and 22 respectfully doesn't hurt. Wheeler uses 22 (Under 25 for goalies) and under as his prospect criteria and then adds a nebulous "Not a full-time NHL player. This is the arbitrary section of the criteria." 

His top 10 for us in February were Power, Krebs, Quinn, Levi, JJP, Rosen, Johnson, Portillo, UPL & Samuelsson.  My guess is Krebs and Samuelsson graduate from his list as they finished last season on the Sabres (not including being sent down for the AHL playoffs).  I doubt Power's 8 games will disqualify him.  FYI he had Kisakov 11, Poltapov 12, Nadeau 13 and Bloom 19.

Now add Savoie, Östlund and Kulich.  

Given how highly he thought of the pool 5 months ago, my guess if we'd still be No. 1

 

I'll add to that it is about 'quantity' vs 'quality' in term of how you rank them.  If you rank them in terms of 'quantity' with your cuttoff point in terms of quality being guys who are good enough to just make the NHL? Or is that 'quality' giving very little weight to guys who might make the NHL and mostly focusing on guys you think can legit be difference makers at the highest level (top 1-2 line guys or top 2 d-men?)

[matter2003]

20 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

There's no official ranking of course.

2015 #2 (Bleacher Report)

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2505679-re-ranking-every-teams-prospect-pool-after-2015-nhl-draft

2018 #1 The Sporting News

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nhl/news/nhl-top-prospects-best-worst-farm-system-draft-history-sabres-flyers-canucks-penguins/tn8fb6mqnial16bxvtds5dacu

No cherry picking needed. These landed in my lap with one simple Google search. There are many more spanning many years.

If you're not skeptical about prospect pipelines given what they've amounted to in Buffalo, well, God love ya.

They traded most of them away during those years. Definitely not happening under Adams.

[Stoner]

2014 #1 A++

https://lastwordonsports.com/2014/09/07/tsp-2014-nhl-organizational-prospect-rankings-top-10/

[Curt]

45 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

There's no official ranking of course.

2015 #2 (Bleacher Report)

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2505679-re-ranking-every-teams-prospect-pool-after-2015-nhl-draft

2018 #1 The Sporting News

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nhl/news/nhl-top-prospects-best-worst-farm-system-draft-history-sabres-flyers-canucks-penguins/tn8fb6mqnial16bxvtds5dacu

No cherry picking needed. These landed in my lap with one simple Google search. There are many more spanning many years.

If you're not skeptical about prospect pipelines given what they've amounted to in Buffalo, well, God love ya.

Not surprised that you had to go back to 2014-15 lists that included Eichel/Reinhart to find it.

There are dozens (100s?) of sites the create lists like this.  If you google “Sabres #1 prospects ranking” you are bound to get a few hits.  I was looking more for a look at one or two of the more reputable sites year over year.

Not that you need to do that, but you made an assertion, I disagree with it, and you have provided anything that changes my mind.

[Stoner]

10 minutes ago, Curt said:

Not surprised that you had to go back to 2014-15 lists that included Eichel/Reinhart to find it.

There are dozens (100s?) of sites the create lists like this.  If you google “Sabres #1 prospects ranking” you are bound to get a few hits.  I was looking more for a look at one or two of the more reputable sites year over year.

Not that you need to do that, but you made an assertion, I disagree with it, and you have provided anything that changes my mind.

That's not what I googled. But all of these lists are derivative of a herd mentality. So I have no concern about outlier top rankings.

I've given pre Eichel, Eichel draft and 2018. I read above Sabres were #1 in a reputable ranking last year. I don't know what more you have to see. If there's a franchise whose prospects have been more highly regarded the last 10 years I'd like to see it.

You can throw in the G&G draft of 2012. I saw a piece where Grigs was #2 and Girgs was #15.

Edited July 17, 2022 by PASabreFan

[Curt]

41 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

That's not what I googled. But all of these lists are derivative of a herd mentality. So I have no concern about outlier top rankings.

I've given pre Eichel, Eichel draft and 2018. I read above Sabres were #1 in a reputable ranking last year. I don't know what more you have to see. If there's a franchise whose prospects have been more highly regarded the last 10 years I'd like to see it.

You can throw in the G&G draft of 2012. I saw a piece where Grigs was #2 and Girgs was #15.

I disagree with bolded.  You are saying that you found it one one site, so all the other sites on the internet must be basically the same.  Disagree.

It doesn’t really matter though.  Don’t worry about it.

[LGR4GM]

I just looked at the top 10 pools from last year and added in their drafts, really hard to say any are deeper than Buffalo. 

[Flashsabre]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

I just looked at the top 10 pools from last year and added in their drafts, really hard to say any are deeper than Buffalo. 

This is where I am at. People can argue that other teams have a couple prospects that they might rank higher than the Sabres top prospects but for sure depth of quality prospects with NHL potential no one holds a candle to Buffalo.

[SwampD]

Awesome! Did we win something else in the offseason?

PA is right. This has been a reoccurring theme for some time now. I yawn every time.

Someday it will translate to the regular season, I mean, its just gotta?… right!?

[JoeSchmoe]

5 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Awesome! Did we win something else in the offseason?

PA is right. This has been a reoccurring theme for some time now. I yawn every time.

Someday it will translate to the regular season, I mean, its just gotta?… right!?

I don't recall ever being this optimistic though since the Eichel draft. And in that case it was all about Eichel.

Never can I remember so many good prospects. We've got potential star level prospects (Power, Quinn, Levi, etc), potential NHL regular candidates (JJP, Savoie, Krebs, Samuelsson, etc), and we have a ton of wildcards... more than I can ever recall that could make the jump to NHL regular or star status.

Obviously, not every prospect will stay on the path they're on (for better or worse), but our cupboard is so well stocked that statistically, the odds for a few players to break out is really in our favour.

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

9 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

There's no official ranking of course.

2015 #2 (Bleacher Report)

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2505679-re-ranking-every-teams-prospect-pool-after-2015-nhl-draft

2018 #1 The Sporting News

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nhl/news/nhl-top-prospects-best-worst-farm-system-draft-history-sabres-flyers-canucks-penguins/tn8fb6mqnial16bxvtds5dacu

No cherry picking needed. These landed in my lap with one simple Google search. There are many more spanning many years.

If you're not skeptical about prospect pipelines given what they've amounted to in Buffalo, well, God love ya.

Point made.  Maybe it's different this time because we actually try to develop the talent rather than just sticking them in the NHL. 

[matter2003]

35 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Awesome! Did we win something else in the offseason?

PA is right. This has been a reoccurring theme for some time now. I yawn every time.

Someday it will translate to the regular season, I mean, its just gotta?… right!?

If you watched the last 2 months of the season you started to see it.

[matter2003]

26 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

I don't recall ever being this optimistic though since the Eichel draft. And in that case it was all about Eichel.

Never can I remember so many good prospects. We've got potential star level prospects (Power, Quinn, Levi, etc), potential NHL regular candidates (JJP, Savoie, Krebs, Samuelsson, etc), and we have a ton of wildcards... more than I can ever recall that could make the jump to NHL regular or star status.

Obviously, not every prospect will stay on the path they're on (for better or worse), but our cupboard is so well stocked that statistically, the odds for a few players to break out is really in our favour.

 

I think Savoie is going to end up being a star and likely battling for the top point getter on this team on a regular basis.

Edited July 18, 2022 by matter2003

[SwampD]

10 hours ago, matter2003 said:

If you watched the last 2 months of the season you started to see it.

Like PA said, we’ve been at or near the top of the prospect pool rankings off an on for a decade.

It means nothing until it means something. I’m going to wait until the first 2 months of a season look good before I’m convinced.

Edited July 18, 2022 by SwampD

[JoeSchmoe]

5 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Like PA said, we’ve been at or near the top of the prospect pool rankings off an on for a decade.

When we were high in the Tim Murray days, he foolishly traded a lot of the prospects away. Besides, I don't think we had anyway near the volume of prospects we do now. It was Eichel and Reinhart that had us so high.

[Taro T]

10 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

When we were high in the Tim Murray days, he foolishly traded a lot of the prospects away. Besides, I don't think we had anyway near the volume of prospects we do now. It was Eichel and Reinhart that had us so high.

The bolded is true.  But people were also pretty hopeful/excited about the "big 4" prospects - Bailey, Baptiste, Fascinating, & Carrier.  And the only one that became a regular NHLer was lost in an expansion draft. 

He kept the guys that didn't pan out & like you said traded away/ lost the guys that became NHLers (Armia, Compfer, Lemieux, Carrier - that can't be the entire list, can it?).

[dudacek]

4 minutes ago, Taro T said:

The bolded is true.  But people were also pretty hopeful/excited about the "big 4" prospects - Bailey, Baptiste, Fascinating, & Carrier.  And the only one that became a regular NHLer was lost in an expansion draft. 

He kept the guys that didn't pan out & like you said traded away/ lost the guys that became NHLers (Armia, Compfer, Lemieux, Carrier - that can't be the entire list, can it?).

Zadorov and Grigorenko.

[LGR4GM]

31 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Like PA said, we’ve been at or near the top of the prospect pool rankings off an on for a decade.

It means nothing until it means something. I’m going to wait until the first 2 months of a season look good before I’m convinced.

The Sabres being good and the prospect pool being good are not synonymous. There's lag there but again, you'd be really hard pressed to find a prospect system as deep as Buffalo. 

Anaheim has a good system with some depth,  Mason McTavish,  Pavel Mintyukov, Jacob Perrault are all good. Zellweger, Warren, Luneau, Gaucher, Colangelo, Pastujov, Tracey, Thrun are all interesting at the very least. 

Carolina is okay but Seth Jarvis is no longer a prospect so they lack that high end guy although Trikozov and Koivunen are solid. 

Blackhawks are where Buffalo was in 2021, Korchinski, Nazar are good but they need another draft to add depth. 

Blue Jackets are decent but Sillinger isn't a prospect anymore. I think they have about 4-5 really good pieces and they could probably match Buffalo, outside of our goalie prospects, at the top with Jiricek, K. Johnson, Mateychuk, Sillinger all part of the system. 

Dallas is interesting. They don't have the depth but they have Wyatt Johnston, Logan Stankoven, abs Mavrik Bourque who all lead their leagues so some high end there but not the depth. 

Kings could probably beat Buffalo in defensive depth but not forward depth or talent anymore. 

Love the Wild 2022 draft. That said, there isn't quite the depth of the Sabres especially in high end guys. 

Montreal drafted Mailoux, they can ***** off. 

The NYI... lol. Lou is running that team into the ground. 

Sharks have depth in the system but not high end depth. Östlund is basically a poor man's Eklund at this point and after that, we have multiple forward prospects I'd rank over their next guy. 

Vegas... I've never seen a team run so poorly except maybe the Sabres or Yotes. They just crap away 1st round picks and good prospects. 

That's it really. I think the Blue Jackets, with Sillinger, and Anaheim are the two systems that could be compared right now in 2022 to Buffalo with an honorable mention to Dallas. If I was forced to rank them... 

Buffalo/Anaheim 1a and 1b

Columbus 2

Dallas 3

[JoeSchmoe]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

The bolded is true.  But people were also pretty hopeful/excited about the "big 4" prospects - Bailey, Baptiste, Fascinating, & Carrier.  And the only one that became a regular NHLer was lost in an expansion draft. 

He kept the guys that didn't pan out & like you said traded away/ lost the guys that became NHLers (Armia, Compfer, Lemieux, Carrier - that can't be the entire list, can it?).

I don't think any of those big 4 were highly regarded outside of the Sabres fanbase. As someone that only saw their scoresheets, I never understood the hype. Once I actually saw Bailey and Baptiste play, you could see the tools were there... they just couldn't figure out how to use them. That's where Bjork sits today and will likely soon be out of the league.

[Carmel Corn]

The future certainly looks bright and in a couple years we may finally have a depth of team scoring that will take us back to the President Cup team or even back to the 80's.  The one thing I would like to see our pool improve upon is on defense.  I'd like to see more top 4 potential defender prospects, especially right handers.  With the 2nd round picks next year, maybe that will happen.

[Taro T]

14 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

I don't think any of those big 4 were highly regarded outside of the Sabres fanbase. As someone that only saw their scoresheets, I never understood the hype. Once I actually saw Bailey and Baptiste play, you could see the tools were there... they just couldn't figure out how to use them. That's where Bjork sits today and will likely soon be out of the league.

Fair enough.

[LGR4GM]

27 minutes ago, Taro T said:

The bolded is true.  But people were also pretty hopeful/excited about the "big 4" prospects - Bailey, Baptiste, Fascinating, & Carrier.  And the only one that became a regular NHLer was lost in an expansion draft. 

He kept the guys that didn't pan out & like you said traded away/ lost the guys that became NHLers (Armia, Compfer, Lemieux, Carrier - that can't be the entire list, can it?).

Yea but are we really comparing Bailey, Baptiste, Fasching, and Carrier to Kulich, Östlund, Savoie, and Rosen? 

Not to mention that was basically it, those 4 needed to hit. I can name another 4 or 8 right now in this pool outside of the 4 1st round guys. Poltapov, Kisakov, Peterka, Neuchev, Kozak, Rousek, etc... that are at or above the level of those other 4.

Hell, I didn't even mention jack quinn. It's not the same. The skill level, the development team in place, the number of options, the fact we draft smarter. It could turn out the same but I doubt that. Just because something happened that's surface level similar, doesn't make this the same.

[Flashsabre]

The big difference is the organization.

The Sabres under Murray were a disaster. A lack of communication throughout the organization that bled to the development staff.

Now the organization looks unified and all pulling in the same direction. The prospects have been making great strides. Listen to Levi talk about Kotyk.

There are no guarantees in life but if I had to bet then I would put money on this group forming a core that leads to years of playoff runs. Time will tell but the organization is in much better shape then the other times they have had prospect pools near the top of the league.

[Crusader1969]

41 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

I don't think any of those big 4 were highly regarded outside of the Sabres fanbase. As someone that only saw their scoresheets, I never understood the hype. Once I actually saw Bailey and Baptiste play, you could see the tools were there... they just couldn't figure out how to use them. That's where Bjork sits today and will likely soon be out of the league.

I went to see both Bailey and Baptiste a few times in the OHL.  Easily the best players on the ice in the games I saw.  Still can’t believe neither were able to carve out a NHL career as 3rd or 4th line guys 

 

Bailey is hanging on by a thread and Baptiste is in Europe.  I do wonder how they would have turned out if they were coached under the current development team?