Sabres vs Red Wings vs Sens (vs CBJ) - Who is a better team right now?

[Carmel Corn]

I don't have a crystal ball, but IMHO goaltending and injuries will dictate the final standings between these 3 teams next season.  Obviously, better goaltending and/or depth of NHL talent will translate to more success.

[sabresparaavida]

Just now, Doohickie said:

Let's see if Comrie hits before you assume that.

Note the may have, I did not say got worse. It may have gotten better, but in 2018-2019, both Hutton and Ullmark were better than Anderson In 2021-2022. Sure, Comrie could break out and we Could end up in a much better place, but it’s also possible that he tanks. 

[JoeSchmoe]

I know we were close in points for the season as a whole, but after Tuch came in, how close were we? 

I feel like we ended the season much better than either of those two.

I'm also hopeful that the elimination of the hot puke line of Eakin-Bjork-Hayden will give us a massive addition by subtraction. They were by a fair margin the worst line in hockey last year.  God help us all if Bjork finds a way into the playing time. 🤮

[sabresparaavida]

Something else to note on the playoff front:

100 points was good for the last playoff spot in the east. However, there were a lot of bad teams, and Sabres, NJ, Ottawa, and Columbus all improved to a degree (on paper). These improvements should make it harder on the existing playoff teams, and probably will push the playoff line down to 95-96 points.

[GASabresIUFAN]

When I look at these 4 teams, honestly, I think the other teams had significantly more work to do this summer than we did.  @dudacek did a graphic in another thread showing the change in our roster over last season.

Last season opened with Eakin, Caggiula, Bjork, Hayden, Hagg, Butcher, Miller, Pysyk and Tokarski in our lineup. That pile of JAG gave us 391 games last year and a total of 21 goals (plus 50 assists).  Tokar did give us 29 games, but allowed 3.27 goals per game.  We also used 3 other JAG goalies in 18 other games who were much worse than Tokarski.

None of those players, except Bjork (and he is the 14th forward at this point), return.  

They have been replaced by Tuch, Krebs, Quinn, JJP, Power, Samuelsson, Fitz, Lyubushkin and Comrie.  Anderson and Hinostroza both return but likely in diminished roles.  Quinn alone will probably replace the JAG corps 21 goals. The Sabres return 208 of the 232 goals scored last season.  Now add full seasons of Krebs, Tuch and Mitts, plus talented rookies Power, Quinn and JJP and getting to 250+ goals looks very feasible.  If we get to that level, it's going to be a very entertaining season.

Getting to the playoffs however will require Comrie stepping up and giving us Ville Husso level goaltending.  If he does that, then this team will likely compete for a playoff spot.  

Ultimately it comes down to goal differential.  Playoff teams score more that they allow.  Non playoff teams don't.  Yes there are some exceptions, but usually not many.  For example, in the East last year all 8 playoffs teams had positive differentials and in the West 7 of 8.  Dallas was -8.  In the West LV and Van had positive differentials and missed the playoffs, but still had 90+ pt seasons.

 

[DarthEbriate]

14 minutes ago, sabresparaavida said:

Something else to note on the playoff front:

100 points was good for the last playoff spot in the east. However, there were a lot of bad teams, and Sabres, NJ, Ottawa, and Columbus all improved to a degree (on paper). These improvements should make it harder on the existing playoff teams, and probably will push the playoff line down to 95-96 points.

^This. Last season's records of the top 4 vs. the bottom 4:   Tampa: 10-3-1; Florida 14-2-0; Toronto 10-6-0 (1-3 vs. BUF); Boston 13-3-0

Husso, Forsberg+Talbot (removing Murray), Comrie, and maybe Price are going to sneak away a few more points, in addition to other improvements.

[French Collection]

1 hour ago, DarthEbriate said:

^This. Last season's records of the top 4 vs. the bottom 4:   Tampa: 10-3-1; Florida 14-2-0; Toronto 10-6-0 (1-3 vs. BUF); Boston 13-3-0

Husso, Forsberg+Talbot (removing Murray), Comrie, and maybe Price are going to sneak away a few more points, in addition to other improvements.

I think that the bottom teams will erode points off of the top teams in the east, closing the gap.

As others have said, Comrie will be important to the Sabres making a run. I think he will be solid overall, there will be ups and downs but he will relish the chance he has been given and win more games than he loses. 
 

Back to the question.

I like the Sabres defense the best. The Sabres have the most balanced forward lines, especially if the young guns take a step.

The Sabres have good team chemistry and it sounds like Comrie should add to that. The other clubs have added significant pieces but their chemistry may take time to gel or it might get worse.

I like the Wings add of Copp, I can’t see how he doesn’t help them. Perron is good but he is 34 and was a Blue at heart.

I don’t think DeBrincat gets 40 goals without Kane. Talbot is a good addition. Giroux will help too, despite his age.

I am biased but I think the Sabres will be better than these two due to growth and team make up. Comrie needs to be good for this to happen. If it’s UPL/Anderson getting more games then I think they take a back seat.

[nfreeman]

13 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Columbus should be added to that title imo. 

I think all 3 (Detroit, Ottawa & Columbus) all made moves that will elevated them ahead of us. Given that, we'd need 4 playoff teams from last year to drop out for us to get in. It isn't going to happen.   

I personally felt we were ready to make the type of moves those teams did and leap forward. KA either failed or decided intentionally not to. I think it will turn out to be a huge mistake.

 

Serious question:  what moves did those teams make that you would've wanted the Sabres to make?  I think you were lobbying for Copp -- he's a solid player, but is he a difference-maker?  In 7 NHL seasons he's put up more than 28 points just twice.  The Rangers didn't try to keep him.  Would you have wanted the Sabres to give him that contract (I think $5.75MM x 5 years)?  Would you have wanted them to spend $10MM per year on Gaudreau?  Or give a 3-year contract to Giroux?  I like the Cam Talbot move for Ottawa, but how confident are you that he'll be a better #1 than Comrie?

I think the Sabres are a very young team that KA has been running for one full season with his management team in place.  When they got healthy last year, and when the season was already lost, they finally came to life in the last 28 games or so.  It's still a pretty small sample size to conclude that they have the internal pieces they need in place and now is the time to bring in high-priced talent from outside to complete the picture.

[PromoTheRobot]

14 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Columbus should be added to that title imo. 

I think all 3 (Detroit, Ottawa & Columbus) all made moves that will elevated them ahead of us. Given that, we'd need 4 playoff teams from last year to drop out for us to get in. It isn't going to happen.   

I personally felt we were ready to make the type of moves those teams did and leap forward. KA either failed or decided intentionally not to. I think it will turn out to be a huge mistake.

 

The Sabres were hands-down the worst NHL team going into last season. A five-win team at best. Anyone remember that?

[GASabresIUFAN]

20 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Serious question:  what moves did those teams make that you would've wanted the Sabres to make?  

Would a better question be "which of these moves would have made the Sabres improved enough to block a prospect or swap for a veteran"?  

Copp would certainly be an upgrade over Girgensons or Asplund.  The length of the deal would be a long-term issue, but he would definitely help the Sabres now.

I also would have done the Talbot deal and the Husso deals (trade and contract).  I don't trust UPL and it maybe another 3 years before Levi or Portillo are NHL ready, assuming Portillo signs. 

Obviously Debrincat would help this team, but not enough to spend 6.4 on him this year and be stuck with a minimum Q offer next season of $9 mill.  That said he is an amazing goal scorer.  

[MattPie]

3 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said:

I know we were close in points for the season as a whole, but after Tuch came in, how close were we? 

I feel like we ended the season much better than either of those two.

I'm also hopeful that the elimination of the hot puke line of Eakin-Bjork-Hayden will give us a massive addition by subtraction. They were by a fair margin the worst line in hockey last year.  God help us all if Bjork finds a way into the playing time. 🤮

This is a good point. The Sabres dumpster fire in net between November and like February sunk the season. Easy to say, but if you earse that part of the season the Sabres are an OK team, a step better than the other teams we're talking about here. I'd think even average goaltending gets the Sabres into mid-80s last year. Those teams made a bunch of moves, but (big) assuming the goaltending next year is average, I'm not sure the other teams' moves jump them 15-20 points up the standings to be clearly ahead of Buffalo.

[Buffalonill]

5 hours ago, SwampD said:

😂

The Buffalo Sabres. Forever 2 years away from being good.

Do people actually believe this, or is it just something that rolls off the tongue now after almost a decade of suck?

#itsnotatanktank

Hopefully it's real this time lol 

[Buffalonill]

5 hours ago, Doohickie said:

I really don't think so.  I would say we're even with Ottawa, slightly behind Detroit... IF their new coach has his act together.

Ottawa has norris, giroux, tkachuk debrincat,Stutzle with  Sanderson, Chabot

With possible break out season with Batherson , Pinto

 

I would say we're to raw right now and they're more established this coming year 

[GASabresIUFAN]

I went back and looked closer at CBJ's offense and they are actually very deep.  They had 10 forwards score in double digits and 2 D score 11 each.  They now add Johnny Hockey and his 40 goals.  I wouldn't be surprised if the score 270+ this season.   They scored 258 last year and the only contributor they lost is Maxi Domi and his 9 goals.  Their D last year scored nearly 40 goals as a group.  

Many of their guys are young and just entering their primes:  Laine 24, Werenski 25, Sillinger 19, Texier 22, Roslovic 25, Boqvist 22, Roslovic 25, and Bean 24.

Forwards CBJ 1, Buff 2, Det 3 and Ott 4

Defense CBJ 1, Buf 2, Ott 3, Det 4

Goaltending Ott 1, Det 2, Buf 3, CBJ 4

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Is none of the above an option ??

[Doohicksie]

7 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

Ottawa has norris, giroux, tkachuk debrincat,Stutzle with  Sanderson, Chabot

With possible break out season with Batherson , Pinto

 

I would say we're to raw right now and they're more established this coming year 

We'll see.  I'm confident.

[nfreeman]

50 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Would a better question be "which of these moves would have made the Sabres improved enough to block a prospect or swap for a veteran"?  

Copp would certainly be an upgrade over Girgensons or Asplund.  The length of the deal would be a long-term issue, but he would definitely help the Sabres now.

I also would have done the Talbot deal and the Husso deals (trade and contract).  I don't trust UPL and it maybe another 3 years before Levi or Portillo are NHL ready, assuming Portillo signs. 

Obviously Debrincat would help this team, but not enough to spend 6.4 on him this year and be stuck with a minimum Q offer next season of $9 mill.  That said he is an amazing goal scorer.  

I don't think that would've been a better question.  Copp wasn't available on a 2-year deal.  If you wanted him, you were giving up term and AAV.  You have to take the whole package -- so if you're unhappy about the Sabres not getting Copp, you have to decide whether you would've given him the same contract Detroit gave him (or, realistically, a richer deal, since he was inclined towards Detroit anyway).

Preferring Talbot and/or Husso to Comrie is fair, but again, far from a sure thing.

As for Debrincat -- I'm not sure I'd rather have him, with that contract, than Savoie and the other picks it would've taken to get him.

[GASabresIUFAN]

17 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I don't think that would've been a better question.  Copp wasn't available on a 2-year deal.  If you wanted him, you were giving up term and AAV.  You have to take the whole package -- so if you're unhappy about the Sabres not getting Copp, you have to decide whether you would've given him the same contract Detroit gave him (or, realistically, a richer deal, since he was inclined towards Detroit anyway).

Preferring Talbot and/or Husso to Comrie is fair, but again, far from a sure thing.

As for Debrincat -- I'm not sure I'd rather have him, with that contract, than Savoie and the other picks it would've taken to get him.

There are no sure things.  None.  Vets get hurt, prospect don't develop and get hurt, coaches change, linemates change etc...   I'd have done the Copp deal term and $.  As I wrote above, Debrincat would help but not at the money involved.  No way I'm paying him $9 mill plus after next season.  The goalies I'd have done in a heart beat, but I felt back in May that KA would go the value route.  

[SabresVet]

4 teams in the Atlantic Division basically lapped the other 4 into the playoffs and of those, only Boston might take a step down next season.  

The "lapped" teams  were BUF, DET, OTT, and MON and of those, it's concerning that DET and OTT are going hard to compete in 2022-23.  MON is not far behind them.  Slow and steady is nice for nursery rhymes, but I'm not sure it's always the way to go in the NHL. 

Yet, Buffalo is taking the slow, steady, and cautious approach banking on youth to arrive while building their prospect pipeline.  That, and fitting in low cost UFAs to theoretically be in position to re-sign their own when the time arrives.  

Adams' plan is to do this and have it come together under the HC, but that must be viewed as it relates to how this is shaping up to be one of the most competitive divisions in the NHL.  

Improving perhaps 5-10 points per season while others are taking a bigger leap will only be appreciated by the hardest of hard core fans.  Unless most of their young players come on strong, Buffalo may find themselves looking up in the standings more than most here would want or hope for.    

[matter2003]

Sabres...we had AHL or worse level goaltending last year and still finished on a 102 point pace over the last 2 months. Think we have a chance to be a fringe payoff team and I don't think that's realistic for the others.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, SabresVet said:

4 teams in the Atlantic Division basically lapped the other 4 into the playoffs and of those, only Boston might take a step down next season.  

The "lapped" teams  were BUF, DET, OTT, and MON and of those, it's concerning that DET and OTT are going hard to compete in 2022-23.  MON is not far behind them.  Slow and steady is nice for nursery rhymes, but I'm not sure it's always the way to go in the NHL. 

Yet, Buffalo is taking the slow, steady, and cautious approach banking on youth to arrive while building their prospect pipeline.  That, and fitting in low cost UFAs to theoretically be in position to re-sign their own when the time arrives.  

Adams' plan is to do this and have it come together under the HC, but that must be viewed as it relates to how this is shaping up to be one of the most competitive divisions in the NHL.  

Improving perhaps 5-10 points per season while others are taking a bigger leap will only be appreciated by the hardest of hard core fans.  Unless most of their young players come on strong, Buffalo may find themselves looking up in the standings more than most here would want or hope for.    

Dude, Montreal is tanking.  Adding Dach is ok, but he has never really recovered from his terrible wrist injury. I love the draft pick of Slafkovsky, but he isn't Connor McDavid.  Their best D is Petry and he's 34.  Price is likely to spend the season on IR.

The Sabres as we wrote above didn't need to make drastic moves to compete, because they changed the roster over mid season last year.  They brought in Tuch and Krebs, and then added four top notch kids in Power, Samuelsson, Quinn and JJP.  Yes the kids need to step it up to make it work, but when you bring back 90% on an improving offense and then add the two top rookies from the AHL, you are going to score some goals. 

[LGR4GM]

33 minutes ago, SabresVet said:

4 teams in the Atlantic Division basically lapped the other 4 into the playoffs and of those, only Boston might take a step down next season.  

The "lapped" teams  were BUF, DET, OTT, and MON and of those, it's concerning that DET and OTT are going hard to compete in 2022-23.  MON is not far behind them.  Slow and steady is nice for nursery rhymes, but I'm not sure it's always the way to go in the NHL. 

Yet, Buffalo is taking the slow, steady, and cautious approach banking on youth to arrive while building their prospect pipeline.  That, and fitting in low cost UFAs to theoretically be in position to re-sign their own when the time arrives.  

Adams' plan is to do this and have it come together under the HC, but that must be viewed as it relates to how this is shaping up to be one of the most competitive divisions in the NHL.  

Improving perhaps 5-10 points per season while others are taking a bigger leap will only be appreciated by the hardest of hard core fans.  Unless most of their young players come on strong, Buffalo may find themselves looking up in the standings more than most here would want or hope for.    

What move did Detroit or Ottawa make that you think Buffalo should have?

28 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Dude, Montreal is tanking.  Adding Dach is ok, but he has never really recovered from his terrible wrist injury. I love the draft pick of Slafkovsky, but he isn't Connor McDavid.  Their best D is Petry and he's 34.  Price is likely to spend the season on IR.

The Sabres as we wrote above didn't need to make drastic moves to compete, because they changed the roster over mid season last year.  They brought in Tuch and Krebs, and then added four top notch kids in Power, Samuelsson, Quinn and JJP.  Yes the kids need to step it up to make it work, but when you bring back 90% on an improving offense and then add the two top rookies from the AHL, you are going to score some goals. 

I think Slafskovsky was a major mistake by Montreal and they will come to regret it.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

What move did Detroit or Ottawa make that you think Buffalo should have?

I think Slafskovsky was a major mistake by Montreal and they will come to regret it.

I love Slafkovsky the player, but I agree Wright should have been the choice. 

[LGR4GM]

36 minutes ago, SabresVet said:

4 teams in the Atlantic Division basically lapped the other 4 into the playoffs and of those, only Boston might take a step down next season.  

The "lapped" teams  were BUF, DET, OTT, and MON and of those, it's concerning that DET and OTT are going hard to compete in 2022-23.  MON is not far behind them.  Slow and steady is nice for nursery rhymes, but I'm not sure it's always the way to go in the NHL. 

Yet, Buffalo is taking the slow, steady, and cautious approach banking on youth to arrive while building their prospect pipeline.  That, and fitting in low cost UFAs to theoretically be in position to re-sign their own when the time arrives.  

Adams' plan is to do this and have it come together under the HC, but that must be viewed as it relates to how this is shaping up to be one of the most competitive divisions in the NHL.  

Improving perhaps 5-10 points per season while others are taking a bigger leap will only be appreciated by the hardest of hard core fans.  Unless most of their young players come on strong, Buffalo may find themselves looking up in the standings more than most here would want or hope for.    

Let's look at this. Ottawa added Debrincat, Talbot, Giroux. How do they match up to what Buffalo has?

Detroit: Copp, Perron, Chairiot, Matta, and Husso. How do they match up to what Buffalo has?

Which of these guys are clear improvements over the players the Sabres have?

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Serious question:  what moves did those teams make that you would've wanted the Sabres to make?  I think you were lobbying for Copp -- he's a solid player, but is he a difference-maker?  In 7 NHL seasons he's put up more than 28 points just twice.  The Rangers didn't try to keep him.  Would you have wanted the Sabres to give him that contract (I think $5.75MM x 5 years)?  Would you have wanted them to spend $10MM per year on Gaudreau?  Or give a 3-year contract to Giroux?  I like the Cam Talbot move for Ottawa, but how confident are you that he'll be a better #1 than Comrie?

I think the Sabres are a very young team that KA has been running for one full season with his management team in place.  When they got healthy last year, and when the season was already lost, they finally came to life in the last 28 games or so.  It's still a pretty small sample size to conclude that they have the internal pieces they need in place and now is the time to bring in high-priced talent from outside to complete the picture.

I'm not necessarily looking at the same players they did, but rather at the idea of filling the holes now so that the team can win now rather than waiting for the holes to slowly fill with prospects that develop. 

Everyone keeps saying the mantra over and over about our good young players. Those teams, especially Detroit and Ottawa also have a lot of good young players. They've now added good veterans to play with them and lead them and thus they have a step up on us. 

I'm not sure why people think Comrie is so good. So yes, I think Talbot will be a lot better. There is a possible, stress possible, upside to Comrie and he might be better than he's ever been, but really, our goaltending is still questionable at best. 

Copp apparently wanted to be near family in Michigan so he wasn't an option I guess but he would have been good. imo we didn't add a good enough goalie or fill the other holes adequately.