Sabres vs Red Wings vs Sens (vs CBJ) - Who is a better team right now?

[GASabresIUFAN]

All 3 teams finished within 2 points of each other last season. (Buf 75, Det 74 and Ott 73)

Sabres scored the most goals of the 3 at 232, followed by Det 230 and Ott at 227

Ott had the least goals against with 266, Buffalo was second at 290 and Det the worst at 312.  

Buffalo adds Power, Quinn, JJP, Lyubushkin and Comrie to an already young team, plus full seasons of Tuch and Krebs.

Stevie Y is going for it.  He has added Husso, Maatta, Chariot, Copp, Kubalik, and Perron.  I can even see Kasper possibly earning a spot in camp.  

Ott is also going for it adding Giroux, DeBrincat and Talbot.

So who is the better team on paper heading into next season? Which team has the most potential to make the playoffs next season?

Goaltending:  IMHO Ottawa has the edge with the tandem of Talbot and Forsberg.  Forsberg was great for them last year.  I also have more confidence in the tandem of Husso and Nedeljkovic over our pair of Comrie/Anderson.

Defense: This is a very hard question.  Seider/Hronek are the top 2 in Detroit.  Chabot/Sanderson in Ott and Dahlin/Power in Buffalo. Seider, Dahlin and Chabot are probably 3 of the most exciting young veteran D in the NHL.  I give the edge to Buffalo because of better young depth, but they all seem much the same.

Forwards:  I know I'm biased, but I feel the Sabres are the only one of the 3 squad to be able to field 4 lines that can score, despite all the additions Stevie Y made.  Det has an excellent top of the order in Raymond, Larkin and Bertuzzi.  I love their addition of Copp.  I see 3 capable lines after the additions.  Ott will have a lethal top 6 with  Tkachuk, Stutzle, DeBrincat, Norris, Giroux and Batherson, but not much in scoring depth after that.  The Sabres on the other hand truly look 4 lines deep if (and this is a big if) Quinn and JJP make an impact.  They don't have to score 20+, but getting 10-15 might give us 11 forwards and 2 D who could score in double digits next year.

These three teams look very close on paper with Det maybe having the edge of proven talent.  However, the Sabres have the most upside.  Healthy is going to be one the biggest issues with these teams.  The one that stays the healthiest will be the one that challenges for a playoff spot.

EDIT: A requested was made to add the CBJ to the conversation.  Please see below.  

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[PerreaultForever]

Columbus should be added to that title imo. 

I think all 3 (Detroit, Ottawa & Columbus) all made moves that will elevated them ahead of us. Given that, we'd need 4 playoff teams from last year to drop out for us to get in. It isn't going to happen.   

I personally felt we were ready to make the type of moves those teams did and leap forward. KA either failed or decided intentionally not to. I think it will turn out to be a huge mistake.

 

[Gatorman0519]

Short term we are the worst.  Long term we may have the most upside. 

[Doohicksie]

I think the wildcard here is coaching.  Donny Meatballs has been excellent as a development coach, but does he have what it takes to win consistently at the NHL level? Detroit has a new coach and I think there will be a learning curve; I think they might start fast out of the gate and then hit a few bumps.  Ottawa and Columbus both have younger coaches but they've been with the teams at least one year (so kind of like Donny in terms of tenure).

I thought the Wings were ahead of the Sabres last season but the Sabres finished ahead of them.  On paper the Wings might have the edge again, but I think the Sabres may still be better.  I think part of it comes from the fact that the Sabres aren't adding a ton of new players; their stars are already there and contributing. 

As for the elite of the conference, I really think we will see a changing of the guard.  I think Boston is on their last gasp.  Tampa seems to keep it going year on year but sooner or later they, too, will stumble.  I think Toronto will be in the playoffs but just from what I've seen in free agency, they'll be ousted again in the first round.  They concentrate too much of offense to the detriment of their defense and expect their goaltending to bail them out.  But their goaltending is not top shelf.  So we'll see.

[Buffalonill]

Wings ,Ottawa are better now but buffalo will pass them both very easily in 2 years 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Johnny Hockey is certainly a nice addition to an 81 pt team, but that left them 6th in the metro.  They also just invested 4 a year for 4 years in maybe the slowest D in the NHL in Gudbranson.  Obviously Werenski is excellent.  Boqvist is just ok for such a high draft pick.  I do like Bean however.  Still I'd rather have our trio of Samuelsson, Dahlin and Power over Werenski, Bean and Boqvist.   

Upfront Voracek and Johnny Hockey should work together well.  Laine is solid scorer if they can get him re-signed.  Bjorkstad and Jenner are also solid.  It looks kind of like Ott with a solid top 6, but questionable after that.  They did score 262 last year, but gave up 300 for a -38.  

Ultimately they fit with Buf, Ott, and Det.  I still like our potential the best of the bunch.  

With all 4 teams and the Islanders looking better for next year, these 4 teams are going to shave points from the 8 playoff teams.  I think Tor, Wash, Bos have regressed.  This should make the East much more balanced.  

[Doohicksie]

8 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

Wings ,Ottawa are better now but buffalo will pass them both very easily in 2 years 

I really don't think so.  I would say we're even with Ottawa, slightly behind Detroit... IF their new coach has his act together.

[SwampD]

8 hours ago, Gatorman0519 said:

Short term we are the worst.  Long term we may have the most upside. 

8 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

Wings ,Ottawa are better now but buffalo will pass them both very easily in 2 years 

😂

The Buffalo Sabres. Forever 2 years away from being good.

Do people actually believe this, or is it just something that rolls off the tongue now after almost a decade of suck?

#itsnotatanktank

[ddaryl]

I don't think those teams did anything really special. Buffalo has a young core that's getting better. Ottawa and Detroit brought in some players that may become a part of their core but I fail to see how a few FA's are going to propel them much.

I think our young team makes an equal jump from experience that matches those teams FA pickups.

Time will tell but the whole Detroit / Ottawa fascination here doesn't even phase me a little bit. We have a deep pipeline with talented players and I expect the trend to continue upward and matching the abilities of FA's acquired by sed teams

 

[apuszczalowski]

Having a 'Young Core' means F***-All really, It means you have 'Hope' and 'Potential'.

The Sabres had a great 'Young Core' not too long ago with a few really high draft choices, and one of the being a 'close consolation prize' in the McDavid Sweepstakes and it got them no where.

So far, the other teams around the Sabres added proven talent to their rosters to go along with their own 'Young Cores'

Buffalo added one potentially solid defencemen, more 'Potential'/lottery ticket in Comrie, and a bunch of filler.

On paper, those other teams have taken strides ahead of the Sabres while they appear to be treading water, but thats why games are played

Theres a chance that something clicks and some of the 'Young Core' in Buffalo make huge leaps this season, but theres just as likely a chance that they struggle or take a step back too.

[Curt]

I think Buffalo looks to be ahead of Detroit and New Jersey still.  Ottawa and Buffalo are close but ahead of the other two.

Best evaluation I can give on July 14.

[Dr. Who]

2 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

Having a 'Young Core' means F***-All really, It means you have 'Hope' and 'Potential'.

The Sabres had a great 'Young Core' not too long ago with a few really high draft choices, and one of the being a 'close consolation prize' in the McDavid Sweepstakes and it got them no where.

So far, the other teams around the Sabres added proven talent to their rosters to go along with their own 'Young Cores'

Buffalo added one potentially solid defencemen, more 'Potential'/lottery ticket in Comrie, and a bunch of filler.

On paper, those other teams have taken strides ahead of the Sabres while they appear to be treading water, but thats why games are played

Theres a chance that something clicks and some of the 'Young Core' in Buffalo make huge leaps this season, but theres just as likely a chance that they struggle or take a step back too.

I'd rather be the Sabres. Folks are bitter after a decade plus of sorrow. Young Core Eichel lacked coherent leadership and in the end it fell apart. The new build is already ahead of the game. Tuch was a perfect add, Okposo is veteran leader that is respected, the "want to be here" mantra is a real thing. I don't think anyone imagines everyone is going to take a step forward. Even average hit rate is going to work because of the depth of prospects in the system.

[Pimlach]

With Detroit’s FA pickup they have the edge in NHL Talent.  The Sabres are banking on last years players getting better (Dahlin, Cozens, Mitts, Krebs), plus another strong season from Tage/Okposso/Skinner, plus many rookies contributing (Power, Quinn, JJP, Samuelsson, and maybe UPL).  
 

I can definitely see Detroit passing the Sabres in the standings, they beat us every game last season.   Yzerman is making a move.  In the long term the Sabres have a deeper pipeline but prospects are prospects and many big questions remain, especially in net.  
 

Ottawa might have closed the slight gap with Buffalo but I wouldn’t want those contracts. 

[postseasonblues]

Sabres not only need to look ahead in the standings to get to the next step, which is being in the playoff race, they will need to look at who's hanging around with them also.

Sabres may be getting better, but things aren't getting easier.

[LGR4GM]

The thing that is being ignored by just about EVERY SINGLE POSTER in this thread is that Ottawa and Detroit HAD to sign those players to fill out their teams because they don't have the depth or young talent that Buffalo has. I don't think Ottawa or Detroit got better than Buffalo, I think all teams at this point are still on the same level and it all depends on which young players on those respective teams make a jump. Comrie is a significant improvement to a team that was already figuring it out. We basically went from having the 40th best goalie in GSAA to having the 2nd. Even if there is regression, I doubt it goes all the way back to 40 so idk, I think we see Detroit and Ottawa making moves and assume that means they passed us as opposed to realizing they had to make those moves to stay on the same level as Buffalo because again, the team we have is young and moving forward together.

Time will tell.

[aristocrat]

Det picked up a bunch of free agents but how do you know what's gonna happen in the locker room? Do these guys like each other? Good work ethic? etc. We know our guys get along in the room and are coming up together.  That's realy important over a long grind of a season.  I'd give the edge to us right now. 

[nucci]

9 hours ago, Gatorman0519 said:

Short term we are the worst.  Long term we may have the most upside. 

how much longer do I have to wait?

[mjd1001]

On paper, it appears Buffalo fell behind both Ottawa and Detroit. On paper.

I think you can flip a coin (or two or 3, have a coin flipping tournament to see what order these teams will finish in).

But I'll make the case for Buffalo:

-Sabres don't really have any key pieces that are aging and can have that 'fall off the cliff' year.  Neither do the Red Wings.  Ottawa, I really don't like the Giroux signing, I think he won't add as much to that team as others thing. The Sabres have Okposo, but you could also say Perron is in the same situation (but any falloffin Perron is more important because if his expected production)

-All 3 teams have some young prospects in their lineup, but the Sabres have the most that played for them last year that will this year.  Why is that a plus for the Sabres?  USUALLY those guys progress year to year at this age.  Stats may or may not show it, but it is reasonable to expect that Dahlin, Power,  Samuelsson will all be better plays this year than they were last year, and that also goes for a few guys up front.  All of these teams SHOULD be better because younger players get better as time goes on, but that applies to the Sabres with more guys than the other teams.

 

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, nucci said:

how much longer do I have to wait?

Until October of 2022.

[nucci]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Until October of 2022.

I can do that

[LGR4GM]

I am too lazy to do it, but someone should write out the predicted lines for each team and we can compare them that way. Rate them 1, 2, or 3 based on if they are the best or worst of the 3 teams. We rate them line by line and then whichever team has the lowest points, is the best.

Example:

Skinner - Tage - Olofsson

Raymond - Larkin - Bertuzzi

Brady Tkchuk - Josh Norris? (Does Stutzle or Giroux get this?) - Batherson

How would you rate these lines? It is hard for sure. I think Detroit I put 3rd. Ottawa and Buffalo I could be convinced on.

1 - Buffalo (continued Tage growth, Olofsson stays healthy)

2 - Ottawa (regardless of the center I think this is a strong line and I think Tkachuk and Batherson will elevate the center)

3 - Detroit (Raymond is still very young, Larkin is good and I think Bertuzzi is good.)

This is hard because if Raymond takes a jump I could see Detroit jumping up but also Olofsson could be replaced by JJP and what does that look like. Who is the actual first line center for Ottawa? Anyways that is the first line, someone else feel free to do the rest. I used... https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/teams/buffalo-sabres/line-combinations/

[sabresparaavida]

32 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

Having a 'Young Core' means F***-All really, It means you have 'Hope' and 'Potential'.

The Sabres had a great 'Young Core' not too long ago with a few really high draft choices, and one of the being a 'close consolation prize' in the McDavid Sweepstakes and it got them no where.

So far, the other teams around the Sabres added proven talent to their rosters to go along with their own 'Young Cores'

Buffalo added one potentially solid defencemen, more 'Potential'/lottery ticket in Comrie, and a bunch of filler.

On paper, those other teams have taken strides ahead of the Sabres while they appear to be treading water, but thats why games are played

Theres a chance that something clicks and some of the 'Young Core' in Buffalo make huge leaps this season, but theres just as likely a chance that they struggle or take a step back too.

Some differences between then and now (comparing to the 2018-19 season: 

Sabres have 4 players (Tage, Mitts, Cozens, Krebs) which would have been better options at 2C compared to back then. Going by TOI/g to determine the depth chart, every single forward position outside of the 1st line has gotten significantly better. Oloffson was 4th in TOI/g of our forwards in 2018-2019, and he has improved significantly since his rookie year. 5th was Erod, 6th was Sheary. Those players would be on our 4th line at best now. 
On Defense, arguably every player has improved. Dahlin>>>>Risto, Samuelson >Montour, lybushkin>Bogo, 19yo Power>? 18yo Dahlin. 
Goaltending may have gotten worse, but this is a much much deeper team, and the “young core” of then was pretty much just the first line and 2 guys on defense. Now, the “young core” (core likely is the wrong word) is the majority of the team. 

[Doohicksie]

5 minutes ago, sabresparaavida said:

Goaltending may have gotten worse,

Let's see if Comrie hits before you assume that.

6 minutes ago, sabresparaavida said:

this is a much much deeper team, and the “young core” of then was pretty much just the first line and 2 guys on defense. Now, the “young core” (core likely is the wrong word) is the majority of the team. 

You forgot to mention coaching.

[GoPuckYourself]

17 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

All 3 teams finished within 2 points of each other last season. (Buf 75, Det 74 and Ott 73)

Sabres scored the most goals of the 3 at 232, followed by Det 230 and Ott at 227

Ott had the least goals against with 266, Buffalo was second at 290 and Det the worst at 312.  

Buffalo adds Power, Quinn, JJP, Lyubushkin and Comrie at an already young team, plus full seasons of Tuch and Krebs.

Stevie Y is going for it.  He has added Husso, Maatta, Chariot, Copp, Kubalik, and Perron.  I can even see Kasper possibly earning a spot in camp.  

Ott is also going for it adding Giroux, DeBrincat and Talbot.

So who is the better team on paper heading into next season? Which team has the most potential to make the playoffs next season?

Goaltending:  IMHO Ottawa has the edge with the tandem of Talbot and Forsberg.  Forsberg was great for them last year.  I also have more confidence in the tandem of Husso and Nedeljkoiv over our pair of Comrie/Anderson.

Defense: This is a very hard question.  Seider/Hronek are the top 2 in Detroit.  Chabot/Sanderson in Ott and Dahlin/Power in Buffalo. Seider, Dahlin and Chabot are probably 3 of the most exciting young veteran D in the NHL.  I give the edge to Buffalo because of better young depth, but they all seem much the same.

Forwards:  I know I'm biased, but I feel the Sabres are the only one of the 3 squad to be able to field 4 lines that can score, despite all the additions Stevie Y made.  Det has an excellent top of the order in Raymond, Larkin and Bertuzzi.  I love their addition of Copp.  I see 3 capable lines after the additions.  Ott will have a lethal top 6 with  Tkachuk, Stutzle, DeBrincat, Norris, Giroux and Batherson, but not much in scoring depth after that.  The Sabres on the other hand truly look 4 lines deep if (and this is a big if) Quinn and JJP make an impact.  They don't have to score 20+, but getting 10-15 might give us 11 forwards and 2 D who could score in double digits next year.

These three teams look very close on paper with Det maybe having the edge of proven talent.  However, the Sabres have the most upside.  Healthy is going to be one the biggest issues with these teams.  The one that stays the healthiest will be the one that challenges for a playoff spot.

 

Ottawa is clearly going for it and has a solid young roster with Alex Debrincat, Brady Tkachuck, Thomas Chabot, Drake Batherson, Tim Stutzle, Josh Norris, Erik Brannstrom, Shane Pinto, Claude Giroux and add Cam Talbot in net and that's a pretty solid core right there worthy of making a serious playoff run.

Detroit is right behind them with a nice blend of solid vets and young core pieces in Lucas Raymond, Moritz Seider, Dylan Larkin, Tyler Bertuzzi, Filip Zadina, Jacob Vrana, Dominik Kubalik, Andrew Copp, Ben Chariot, Gustav Lindtrom and Ville Husso in net.

I think we finish behind both those teams this season but we'll find out who our core pieces going forward are like is Tage Thompson going to be an 80 point, 40 goal scorer each year or was he a 1 year wonder? Is Casey Middlestadt anymore than a 3rd-4th line grinder? Will Peyton Krebs take the next step? Are Quinn and Peterka core line mates? Is Eric Comrie coming into his prime or just got lucky in a short period of time? Will Victor Goalofsson live up to the 4.75M we just gave him? Will Dylan Cozens take the next step? The one thing I know for sure is that Buffalo has a solid pipeline of youth that the likes of Ottawa and Detroit don't although Detroit's prospect pool is still pretty solid but now that they're going for it I see them depleting some of those prospects to get better now.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 14, 2022 by GoPuckYourself

[Curt]

The way I see it, Buffalo has so many young talented players that odds are that a couple will “pop” each year for the next 3-4 years.

Last season it was Thompson and Dahlin.  Next season Mitts, Cozens, Krebs, Quinn, Power, Samuelsson, Jokiharju, Comrie all look like candidates.  Some will and some won’t, but odds are that a couple will.

The year after that it’s the above guys who don’t plus Savoie, JJP, UPL.

The year after that it’s the above guys who don’t plus Bloom, Nadeau, Kisakov, Östlund, Kulich, Johnson?, Levi, and others.