Sabres Sign Malcolm Subban 1 year 850k

[PromoTheRobot]

He's been conspicuously absent from any chatter good or bad. Is he recovered from his injury? Is his agent talking with KA? Does he have any future beyond the AHL or emergency NHL backup? Or does he become the Sabres new Doug Allen?

Edited July 10, 2022 by PromoTheRobot

[dudacek]

He’s on the wait and see what else happens list

[tom webster]

I heard he was auditioning for one of those singing shows.

[Digger]

I said this in another thread but I'm not sure why any of us care about Subban.  His stats are poor and he doesn't look like he's going to make it in the NHL.  

I would rather sign Tokarski again as a player for Rochester and call up for the Sabres along with UPL (because we have had so many injuries in the past 2 seasons).

Still need a viable option for playing 50 games with the Sabres to play with Anderson.

[PromoTheRobot]

11 minutes ago, Digger said:

I said this in another thread but I'm not sure why any of us care about Subban.  His stats are poor and he doesn't look like he's going to make it in the NHL.  

I would rather sign Tokarski again as a player for Rochester and call up for the Sabres along with UPL (because we have had so many injuries in the past 2 seasons).

Still need a viable option for playing 50 games with the Sabres to play with Anderson.

Because goalies, especially, go up and down. You can count on one hand the NHL goalies who are consistently elite. The vast majority get hot then fade and maybe get hot again before fading again. Remember Dominic Hasek was considered a scrub before his trade to Buffalo.

Hopefully Buffalo's analytics and coaching staffs can spot a guy who has the tools and the potential to get hot. Is that Subban? 

 

Edited July 10, 2022 by PromoTheRobot

[mjd1001]

34 minutes ago, Digger said:

I said this in another thread but I'm not sure why any of us care about Subban.  His stats are poor and he doesn't look like he's going to make it in the NHL.  

I would rather sign Tokarski again as a player for Rochester and call up for the Sabres along with UPL (because we have had so many injuries in the past 2 seasons).

Still need a viable option for playing 50 games with the Sabres to play with Anderson.

I like Subban for some reason, but I kinda agree. He was drafted pretty high, and early in his career he looked on pace to be a good NHL goaltender, but over the last few years, he just got worse and worse for whatever reason.

His career Save percentage is below .900 and his worst years were the most recent years.  If you wanted to give him a tryout deal with thinking he may end up in Rochester OK, but I wouldn't expect much more than that right now.

I'm not saying that Houser is an NHL goalie at all, but he has played 6 games for the Sabres in the past 2 year and in that very, VERY small sample size he played actually really well. He also has a history of being decent in the ECHL and AHL. I'd just as soon sign Houser as a guy for the ECHL or Roch, and you know you can use him in an emergency in the NHL and hes not going to let in 8 goals.  Same thing with Tokarski.  Honestly, you can flip a coin and choose weather you want Tokarski or Subban in that role also, but I don't see anything that would tell me that at this point, Subban would be better.

[Digger]

42 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Because goalies, especially, go up and down. You can count on one hand the NHL goalies who are consistently elite. The vast majority get hot then fade and maybe get hot again before fading again. Remember Dominic Hasek was considered a scrub before his trade to Buffalo.

Hopefully Buffalo's analytics and coaching staffs can spot a guy who has the tools and the potential to get hot. Is that Subban? 

 

I thought Subban was a good gamble last year but he didn't look good in the limited time he played before injury (so why re-sign him).  I do believe Tokarski is ahead of him in my opinion assuming he'll sign again as an insurance guy.................but still need a goalie vastly better than both for the Sabres to play with Anderson.

[Eleven]

He's just not very good.  There's no reason to bring him back, unless he really likes being a black man in Cincinnati, which I understand is not fun.  He might make a great coach someday, though.

Edited July 10, 2022 by Eleven

[Taro T]

7 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Because goalies, especially, go up and down. You can count on one hand the NHL goalies who are consistently elite. The vast majority get hot then fade and maybe get hot again before fading again. Remember Dominic Hasek was considered a scrub before his trade to Buffalo.

Hopefully Buffalo's analytics and coaching staffs can spot a guy who has the tools and the potential to get hot. Is that Subban? 

 

He was considered a scrub?  Really?  He was the best goalie in the 3rd best league in the world for 1/2 a decade.  His stats were near the top in every league he ever played in including those NA ones he finally got to play in after the Iron Curtain fell.

That he was considered expendable by the team he was on when that team had a 2nd year goalie who'd set team & league records as a rookie & got the majority of the starts on a run to the Final when there was an expassion draft & teams could only keep 1 goalie did NOT make him a scrub.  (Without the expansion draft, Winnipeg isn't desperate to protect Beauregard & Chicago & Buffalo don't work out that deal.) 

Muckler being too dumb to realize what he lucked into isn't a knock on Dom either.  That's squarely on Muckler and still chafes to this day.  What useful pieces could Puppa, Andreychuck, & a 1st turned into that could've helped the Sabres past the Habs rather than another goalie?

Really doubt Subban will be anything more than a tweener/ poor team's backup goalie.  Too bad for him because he seems like a really good team guy.

[Digger]

24 minutes ago, Taro T said:

He was considered a scrub?  Really?  He was the best goalie in the 3rd best league in the world for 1/2 a decade.  His stats were near the top in every league he ever played in including those NA ones he finally got to play in after the Iron Curtain fell.

That he was considered expendable by the team he was on when that team had a 2nd year goalie who'd set team & league records as a rookie & got the majority of the starts on a run to the Final when there was an expassion draft & teams could only keep 1 goalie did NOT make him a scrub.  (Without the expansion draft, Winnipeg isn't desperate to protect Beauregard & Chicago & Buffalo don't work out that deal.) 

Muckler being too dumb to realize what he lucked into isn't a knock on Dom either.  That's squarely on Muckler and still chafes to this day.  What useful pieces could Puppa, Andreychuck, & a 1st turned into that could've helped the Sabres past the Habs rather than another goalie?

Really doubt Subban will be anything more than a tweener/ poor team's backup goalie.  Too bad for him because he seems like a really good team guy.

I agree that Promo could have chosen a better example than Hasek to make his point.

I always remember this save by Hasek on Mario in the playoffs, traded to the Sabres in the off season.  Unfortunately too many GM's thought he had no style before he got his chance.  Absolutely agree on not needing the Fuhr trade for what could have been.

 

[matter2003]

Does it really matter? He is terrible. He should never play in the NHL again.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

He was considered a scrub?  Really?  He was the best goalie in the 3rd best league in the world for 1/2 a decade.  His stats were near the top in every league he ever played in including those NA ones he finally got to play in after the Iron Curtain fell.

That he was considered expendable by the team he was on when that team had a 2nd year goalie who'd set team & league records as a rookie & got the majority of the starts on a run to the Final when there was an expassion draft & teams could only keep 1 goalie did NOT make him a scrub.  (Without the expansion draft, Winnipeg isn't desperate to protect Beauregard & Chicago & Buffalo don't work out that deal.) 

Muckler being too dumb to realize what he lucked into isn't a knock on Dom either.  That's squarely on Muckler and still chafes to this day.  What useful pieces could Puppa, Andreychuck, & a 1st turned into that could've helped the Sabres past the Habs rather than another goalie?

Really doubt Subban will be anything more than a tweener/ poor team's backup goalie.  Too bad for him because he seems like a really good team guy.

 

52 minutes ago, Digger said:

I agree that Promo could have chosen a better example than Hasek to make his point.

I always remember this save by Hasek on Mario in the playoffs, traded to the Sabres in the off season.  Unfortunately too many GM's thought he had no style before he got his chance.  Absolutely agree on not needing the Fuhr trade for what could have been.

 

My point is the Blackhawks traded him for Stephan Beauregard. They couldn't have seen him as a future hall of famer.

[Taro T]

8 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

My point is the Blackhawks traded him for Stephan Beauregard. They couldn't have seen him as a future hall of famer.

They had what they thought was a future HoFer in Belfour.  And they were only allowed to protect 1 goalie.  They weren't getting a king's ransom for him.  And the Hawks didn't trade him for Beauregard.  They ended up w/ Ruuttuu and the pick that became Daze.  The amazing thing wasn't him getting through 1 expansion draft unclaimed, it was his getting through a 2nd one as well.  (Muckler was in full blown moron mode.)  And again, getting exposed to an expansion draft doesn't mean you are considered a "scrub" unless guys like Fluery were scrubs too.

Heck, Luongo at a similar stage of his career after having been the 4th overall pick could only bring back Parrish & Kvasha and the Aisles had to throw in Jokinen to get even that.  Young goalies that haven't established themselves in the NHL bring back underwhelming returns.  It doesn't make them "scrubs."

IMHO, it was a poor analogy.  What leagues have Malcolm Subban been hands down the best goalie in the league?  And yes, he made ONE Hasekesque save in Buffalo, but given the injury he suffered later that game, his ability to do that again is very much in question.

[GASabresIUFAN]

10 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Does it really matter? He is terrible. He should never play in the NHL again.

I won't go this far, but he is best suited as an AHL backup and spot injury starter.

[Pimlach]

17 hours ago, Eleven said:

He's just not very good.  There's no reason to bring him back, unless he really likes being a black man in Cincinnati, which I understand is not fun.  He might make a great coach someday, though.

He could play in Rochester.  

[Taro T]

24 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

He could play in Rochester.  

If he's re-signed, that's where he should be looking for an apartment.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

They had what they thought was a future HoFer in Belfour.  And they were only allowed to protect 1 goalie.  They weren't getting a king's ransom for him.  And the Hawks didn't trade him for Beauregard.  They ended up w/ Ruuttuu and the pick that became Daze.  The amazing thing wasn't him getting through 1 expansion draft unclaimed, it was his getting through a 2nd one as well.  (Muckler was in full blown moron mode.)  And again, getting exposed to an expansion draft doesn't mean you are considered a "scrub" unless guys like Fluery were scrubs too.

Heck, Luongo at a similar stage of his career after having been the 4th overall pick could only bring back Parrish & Kvasha and the Aisles had to throw in Jokinen to get even that.  Young goalies that haven't established themselves in the NHL bring back underwhelming returns.  It doesn't make them "scrubs."

IMHO, it was a poor analogy.  What leagues have Malcolm Subban been hands down the best goalie in the league?  And yes, he made ONE Hasekesque save in Buffalo, but given the injury he suffered later that game, his ability to do that again is very much in question.

I never compared Subban to Hasek. I said that the light comes on later for goalies sometimes.

Edited July 11, 2022 by PromoTheRobot

[Taro T]

40 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I never compared Subban to Hasek. I said that the light comes on later for goalies sometimes.

You said Hasek was considered a scrub which is serious hyperbole at its most favorable reading and a significant mischaracterization .  Forgive any misconstruing of your meaning.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

You said Hasek was considered a scrub which is serious hyperbole at its most favorable reading and a significant mischaracterization .  Forgive any misconstruing of your meaning.

Scrub in the sense he was considered expendable by the Blackhawks. He wasn't "The Dominator" when he was traded to the Sabres.

 

[Taro T]

5 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Scrub in the sense he was considered expendable by the Blackhawks. He wasn't "The Dominator" when he was traded to the Sabres.

 

Of course he was considered ####ing expendable.  They had a good chance to lose him for nothing because of the expansion draft and they had another goalie heading into his third season after having played 70+ games as a rookie cleaning up on the league hardware and then being the primary starter on a run to the Finals.

By your definition, Gretzky was a "scrub" as HE was "expendable."

When you have Montana & Young or Favre and Rodgers, necessarily one of them becomes "expendable."  It doesn't make one a "scrub."

Dude, stop digging.  😉

 

[MattPie]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

If he's re-signed, that's where he should be looking for an apartment.

If he's an optimist, Batavia.

8 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Scrub in the sense he was considered expendable by the Blackhawks. He wasn't "The Dominator" when he was traded to the Sabres.

And that the Sabres (as others alluded to) traded for Fuhr while Hasek was already in the system.

[Taro T]

Just now, MattPie said:

If he's an optimist, Batavia.

And that the Sabres (as others alluded to) traded for Fuhr while Hasek was already in the system.

And again, Muckler being a ####ing idiot doesn't make Hasek a scrub nor mean it was the prevailing sentiment.  Guess who was between the pipes when "May Day" occurred?  Guess who let in at least 1 bad goal in 4 straight 4-3 losses (3 of which came in OT)? It wasn't the guy that wore a full cage.  Had Muckler not been a MFing idiot, that team could've won the Stanley Cup.

[Taro T]

PS - One further point, Muckler trading for whom he considered the best goalie in the league doesn't mean he considered Hasek a "scrub."  It simply reinforced that he was too stupid to understand what he'd lucked into and was akin to the Bills drafting Spiller in the 1st round when they already had Jackson & Lynch.  Sometimes GMs outsmart themselves trying to upgrade that which doesn't need upgrading.

[PromoTheRobot]

55 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Of course he was considered ####ing expendable.  They had a good chance to lose him for nothing because of the expansion draft and they had another goalie heading into his third season after having played 70+ games as a rookie cleaning up on the league hardware and then being the primary starter on a run to the Finals.

By your definition, Gretzky was a "scrub" as HE was "expendable."

When you have Montana & Young or Favre and Rodgers, necessarily one of them becomes "expendable."  It doesn't make one a "scrub."

Dude, stop digging.  😉

 

No. Gretzky was already "The Great One" when he was traded to LA. What was Dom Hasek?

[Taro T]

13 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

No. Gretzky was already "The Great One" when he was traded to LA. What was Dom Hasek?

You said he was a "scrub" because he was "expendable."  Well, Gretzky was expendable, ...

Dom Hasek was the best goalie ever to play in the 3rd best league in the world and had excelled at every level he'd played.

And maybe had Captain Hook given him a start, he might not have been swept by the Pens.  He kept the guy who got 70+ starts the year before and after only playing in 50 some RS games.  That ain't a "scrub."