2023 NHL draft rankings

[GASabresIUFAN]

I’d love love to see a comparison between Willander and Simashev. Simashev seems like a clone of Samuelsson, who maybe skates a little better.  While certainly a valuable player, I don’t see any offense there.  Willander maybe a few inches shorter, possesses the strong D attributes but also brings a solid O skill set.  He reminds me of Orlov.  I’d rather spend 13 on a complete 2 way D vs a D only D.  Also add the Willander will be in NA next season and Simashev still has 2 years in Putinland, I prefer taking the guy I have access to now.

[LGR4GM]

55 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I’d love love to see a comparison between Willander and Simashev. Simashev seems like a clone of Samuelsson, who maybe skates a little better.  While certainly a valuable player, I don’t see any offense there.  Willander maybe a few inches shorter, possesses the strong D attributes but also brings a solid O skill set.  He reminds me of Orlov.  I’d rather spend 13 on a complete 2 way D vs a D only D.  Also add the Willander will be in NA next season and Simashev still has 2 years in Putinland, I prefer taking the guy I have access to now.

Simashev  has offense. In the KHL it is harder to show that when you are limited both in ice time and opportunity. Also saying "Simashev seems like a clone of Samuelsson, who maybe skates a little better" is a rough eval of Simashev's skating. I think his overall agility and footspeed is probably better than what we have from Muel right now. Still, I like Willander and think he is a reliable 2-way defender although his offensive instincts don't seem highly developed. 

[French Collection]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I’d love love to see a comparison between Willander and Simashev. Simashev seems like a clone of Samuelsson, who maybe skates a little better.  While certainly a valuable player, I don’t see any offense there.  Willander maybe a few inches shorter, possesses the strong D attributes but also brings a solid O skill set.  He reminds me of Orlov.  I’d rather spend 13 on a complete 2 way D vs a D only D.  Also add the Willander will be in NA next season and Simashev still has 2 years in Putinland, I prefer taking the guy I have access to now.

I listened to hockeyprospects podcast and Simashev was called a cross between Heiskanen and K’Andre Miller.

[Thorner]

At this point I think my biggest thing is I hope they don’t draft Simashev at 13. There’s BPA, there’s drafting guys who have flexibility in playing both sides, and then there’s using your highest value selection on a LHD when when your probably two best future players are LHD and we also have Samuelsson, all of which are very young. Which mitigates the need to replenish the “system” at left D.

Again, positional flexibility is one thing, but investing such an extreme amount of capital in LHD essentially pigeonholes us into *necessarily* needing to play two players on their offhand in the top 4. It wouldn’t be an option, it would be strictly necessary to maximize the value of those selections 

BPA is fine in concept but the Sabres seeking to be the extreme outlier there, as they so often seem to do, in other ways, would be a mistake imo. You start to hedge the value of your own guys if you just keep stocking the same position.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Thorny

[Brawndo]

 

[dudacek]

Sorry @Thorny but you know I don’t share that particular set of concerns.

I’m going to be quite happy if Simashev is a Sabre: big kid, beautiful skater, understands the game, knows how to defend

[Thorner]

Just now, dudacek said:

Sorry @Thorny but you know I don’t share that particular set of concerns.

I’m going to be quite happy if Simashev is a Sabre: big kid, beautiful skater, understands the game, knows how to defend

Don’t worry, I won’t argue with you about it. 

I’ll just give up lol

Again, it sorta leaves handedness “concerns” in the rear view mirror. It’s the inverse of committing to handedness: we’d be committing to NOT adhering to handedness. Just as hard line and absolute as the other way

[Thorner]

2 left shots on the right side would be *mandatory* to get the proper value out of said pick. Not only is that asking for trouble, the data broke down quite clearly that not only was Adams aware it was harder to play your off hand (thus sheltering the younger players from having to do it), Dahlin, who is a unicorn in being able to handle it, had his numbers *suffer* relative to his output on the left. They are going to be willfully handcuffing 2 (exceptionally important) players, as a rule, if they take Simashev

Edited June 27, 2023 by Thorny

[dudacek]

A team that had Thompson Mittelstadt Cozens and Krebs on their roster already, went out invested 3 first round picks on centres last year.

I was perfectly fine with that - partly because I believe the more options you have the better, but mostly because I believe they were all good players and good value for the pick.

Pick the best player and it will all sort itself out.

Edited June 27, 2023 by dudacek

[Thorner]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

A team that had Thompson Mittelstadt Cozens and Krebs on their roster already went out invested 3 first round picks on centres last year.

I was perfectly fine with that - partly because I believe the more options you have the better, but mostly because I believe they were all good players and good value for the pick.

Pick the best player and it will all sort itself out.

Centres famously get moved to wing all the time, and there are way more F spots 

It we draft Simashev, two of Power Dahlin Simashev Samuelsson *must* play on their offhand.

I guess you could play Samuelsson on pair 3 but that seems exceptionally unlikely

And if the idea is we can trade one, trade a high level prospect, the various Wookiee led discussions of the past several weeks would determine that to be a near impossibility 

If you can’t find anyone else to call BPA when it’s time to pick a left shot D, you should absolutely, positively be trading the pick. We aren’t maximizing the value of a 13th overall pick by adding another left shot D, we just aren’t 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Thorny

[dudacek]

Just now, Thorny said:

Centres famously get moved to wing all the time, and there are way more F spots 

Sure, but aren’t we handcuffing Krebs by forcing him to play with the geezers? Are we really going to get everything we should from Savoie by playing him on the wing? Aren’t we going to have to trade Östlund because we don’t have a slot for him?

[Thorner]

It’s not always about value. Winning trades. Build a team.

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

It’s not always about value. Winning trades. Build a team.

Agree.

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Sure, but aren’t we handcuffing Krebs by forcing him to play with the geezers? Are we really going to get everything we should from Savoie by playing him on the wing? Aren’t we going to have to trade Östlund because we don’t have a slot for him?

Yes, forwards can transition to W without drop-off as handedness is specifically an added difficulty when it comes to defending and being a defenseman. The data, and operations of GMs, have statistically borne that out in vast sample sizes

Edited June 27, 2023 by Thorny

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Yes, forwards can transition to W without drop-off as handedness is specifically an added difficulty when it comes to defending and being a defenseman. The data, and operations of GMs, have statistically borne that out in vast sample sizes

For some. And now we’re right back to where we started 😄

Edited June 27, 2023 by dudacek

[Buffalonill]

Welp it seems less likely we trade the pick which sucks

[Thorner]

The thing is, there are exceptions to every rule. BPA included. The Sabres aren’t “pretty set” at LHD. It’s nothing like the other positions, they are unbelievably *stacked* at LHD. Ignoring the context and going with a hard line rule is ridiculously shortsighted. We have two *number 1 overall* picks who play LHD. 66% of our LHD unit is filled by first overall picks, 2/3rds. Spending 2 first overall picks and then adding a 13th overall at LHD would be insane to me. 

It’s not that it couldn’t work to a reasonably degree, but you are cutting off your own value. I’d imagine the haul you could get in a trade would dwarf it if we actually used it as as opportunity to build the team rather than horde value. 

[Thorner]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

And now we’re right back to where we started 😄

It’s true, the discussion can’t really go anywhere if you are operating as if handedness concerns on D provide no different obstacle to value than handedness concerns at F. And if I’m sticking with what my interpretation of the data is. If D can move around positionally as freely, I’d be hard pressed to make an argument we need a F more than a D, if D are just D, LHD/RHD need not apply. Functionally, we are then selecting a Guy Who Will Play Right Side D with Simashev. I just don’t believe that to the case.

For the sake of argument, if handedness IS more of a concern with D, if there’s isn’t a reasonable “BPA” option that shoots right around where we are picking, I’d definitely trade the pick rather than take a guy we might not get full value from anyways at 13 due to organizational depth 

[dudacek]

What are the numbers for forwards?

Does Ryan O’Reilly’s game drop by 5 per cent on the wing compared to centre? 
How about Sam Reinhart’s? Dylan Cozens?

Do you actually know we aren’t short-circuiting Mitts by playing him on the wing? Or is that all VO’s fault?

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by dudacek

[DarthEbriate]

27 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

Welp it seems less likely we trade the pick which sucks

I don't think we'll trade the pick. However... r-e-l-a-x. They've still got 25-26 hours. ROR wasn't acquired the day before Eichel was drafted.

[Curt]

Personally, I think that the forward options that will be available at 13 are simply more talented than the defensive options.  Seems like defensemen in this 1st round are going to get over drafted because of scarcity. Reinbacher seems ok as a top 15 pick, but I’m not sure if any other defensemen are really worthy of that investment.  

[Brawndo]

 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

 

I like him. 

[Dr. Who]

What I learned over the past few weeks is that Big Macs are super expensive in Winnipeg and that there may be some correlation between how much you pay for a hamburger and how much anxiety you have over balancing handedness on your blueline.  

[Brawndo]

Wheeler has the Sabres taking ASP. 
 

The 5-foot-11 Sandin Pellikka could be a great foil to the size of Owen Power, Mattias Samuelsson and Rasmus Dahlin(though there’s only so much power play time to go around) and Simashev would add more of a good thing with his length and skating, plus they’re among the teams that have shown no aversion to drafting Russians and getting them over here. A combine interview with Pellikka and more certainty around getting him over here won out, but it could go either way for me.

 

An interview with Simashev and His Interview posted up thread, diminishes the concerns IMHO