Rd 2, Pick #41: Topias Leinonen (G)

[Huckleberry]

Yeah I guess I shouldn't complain about it being to early to pick a goalie , if they really wanted him and thought he was the only one they wanted.

[Flashsabre]

29 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

I get the impression that there were picks made where the analytics group wasn’t in agreement with the scouting staff and this was one of them IMO 

Why? With the Russian kid they said the Analytics dept had a first round grade on him and their in person viewings backed it up.

Forton says the Analytics Dept notifies them when players pop in their models then the scouts dive in on those players.

They were considering taking him at #28. 

Forton choked up talking about Adams and how he is brought everyone together and let people do their jobs and that everyone works together now. If the Analytics guys were down on him they wouldn’t have drafted him high.

The Hockey News guide said he was injured this season so he was a bit of a mystery.

[Brawndo]

12 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Why? With the Russian kid they said the Analytics dept had a first round grade on him and their in person viewings backed it up.

Forton says the Analytics Dept notifies them when players pop in their models then the scouts dive in on those players.

They were considering taking him at #28. 

Forton choked up talking about Adams and how he is brought everyone together and let people do their jobs and that everyone works together now. If the Analytics guys were down on him they wouldn’t have drafted him high.

The Hockey News guide said he was injured this season so he was a bit of a mystery.

He also mentioned that Sam Ventura came up and said great draft to Him, right before He talked about there was some healthy disagreement between the scouting staff and analytics department.  I believe He was higher on the board than the analytics department wanted. 
 

I put this in another thread-

I believe the emotions were more for Kim Pegula and what She is going through. He mentioned Adams,  got choked up and His Voice cracked when He said the Pegulas. 
I do the franchise is pointed in the right direction and Adams is a primary driver behind this though 

He has become very close friends with Terry and Kim and I believe that’s how He has survived the multiple FO purges. 

 

[triumph_communes]

You draft a goalie every year. They got high on one and think he dropped a whole round. Let it be. 

[matter2003]

Listening to the WGR interview with the director of amateur scouting they were contemplating taking him with one of their first round picks...said the dropoff between him and the next goalie was huge in their minds and were always taking him at 41 and the only question was if they were picking him earlier.

[That Aud Smell]

The 2nd round goalie thread gets more chatter than the threads for each of the 3 1st rounders.

This team needs a 1A goalie.

[Doohicksie]

7 hours ago, Eleven said:

They can trade for RHD prospects.

Hell, every Sabres trade proposal I see involves moving Bryson.  If Kevyn decides he needs an actual RH shot for RHD he should be able to trade Bryson for a decent RHD straight up.

7 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Devin Levi just turned 20 in December.

But he hasn't signed with the Sabres yet.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Doohickie

[Doohicksie]

6 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

If KA felt he had little or no chance to sign these guys, their rights would have already been traded.

You haven't been watching how KA operates in the trade market, have you?

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

You haven't been watching how KA operates in the trade market, have you?

I have.  I've seen great patience work both for him (Eichel) and against him (the continued failure to secure adequate goaltending entering it's 3rd season).  I've seen him act quickly and get rewarded (Risto) and act quickly but not get a max return (Reinhart).  I've seen smart moves to get to cap floor (Boychuk and Bishop) and a dumb move to get to the cap floor (Butcher).  

Ultimately, KA has been mostly on the plus side of his deals, but I don't think he has quite learned when to be aggressive and when not to be.  Stevie Y wanted to improve his goaltending and went out and made it happen. KA is still waiting for someone to fall into his lap.

[LGR4GM]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I have.  I've seen great patience work both for him (Eichel) and against him (the continued failure to secure adequate goaltending entering it's 3rd season).  I've seen him act quickly and get rewarded (Risto) and act quickly but not get a max return (Reinhart).  I've seen smart moves to get to cap floor (Boychuk and Bishop) and a dumb move to get to the cap floor (Butcher).  

Ultimately, KA has been mostly on the plus side of his deals, but I don't think he has quite learned when to be aggressive and when not to be.  Stevie Y wanted to improve his goaltending and went out and made it happen. KA is still waiting for someone to fall into his lap.

We got a 5th round pick for that sooo 100% disagree. Turned it into Vsevolod Komarov and all it cost us was a few games of Butcher while the defense was battered by injury. Calling it dumb is short sighted.

Oh god I just realized who wrote this. Get over it already, your view on this is one of the most bizarre things on the planet. Adams weaponized his cap and got a 5th round pick but all you see is that bizarre stance of it prevented us from signing another 3mil dollar player even though we were like 20 million on the cap. It was a good move, you just hate Adams.

[Buffalonill]

Dumbest pick in the draft 

[Huckleberry]

7 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

Dumbest pick in the draft 

Maybe not, if its really the only goalie they saw something in, I get they wanted it with the 2nd rounder to make sure.

[SDS]

20 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

Dumbest pick in the draft 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

13 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

You draft a goalie every year. They got high on one and think he dropped a whole round. Let it be. 

But the Internet says.....

[dudacek]

This strikes me as a case where they put need over BPA.

Not that he wasn’t rated there on their list - he clearly was - I just think a desire to get a goalie, lack of goalies, his physical tools, good character, and the gap between him and the next goalie all factored in to them not giving enough weight to performance.

I’m not overly worried about it because goalies are an inexact science at the best of times. Development matters most, and there is an enormous mound of raw clay to work with.

[MBD]

If they had him as a 1st round talent, then they got him at good value.  Now the next thing is for him to prove he was worth the pick.

[Pimlach]

More posts on this goalie than on Savoie.  It shows the frustration in the fan base for the overall goaltending situation on this club.  
 

I am not a scout, and not a fan that follows Junior Hockey and the draft in the detail that some of do.  I like the pick. I think the argument that it might have been a round early is valid to a point.  I also trust that the Sabres FO  and analytics/scouting might be on to something.  
 

No one can argue that they didn’t need to draft a goalie this year.  It could be they took the most worthy one for fear that they might not get him otherwise.   With 11 picks and 3 good looking 1st rounders this strategy is sound to me.  

[kas23]

21 minutes ago, dudacek said:

This strikes me as a case where they put need over BPA.

Not that he wasn’t rated there on their list - he clearly was - I just think a desire to get a goalie, lack of goalies, his physical tools, good character, and the gap between him and the next goalie all factored in to them not giving enough weight to performance.

I’m not overly worried about it because goalies are an inexact science at the best of times. Development matters most, and there is an enormous mound of raw clay to work with.

How can this be “need” when everyone and their sister knows this kid won’t reach the Sabres for at least 4-5 years?

[That Aud Smell]

2 minutes ago, kas23 said:

How can this be “need” when everyone and their sister knows this kid won’t reach the Sabres for at least 4-5 years?

Pipeline needs.

[kas23]

Just now, That Aud Smell said:

Pipeline needs.

But isn’t this an inherent part of the draft itself? Teams are drafting players because their pipeline needs players. 

[MBD]

22 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

More posts on this goalie than on Savoie.  It shows the frustration in the fan base for the overall goaltending situation on this club.  
 

I am not a scout, and not a fan that follows Junior Hockey and the draft in the detail that some of do.  I like the pick. I think the argument that it might have been a round early is valid to a point.  I also trust that the Sabres FO  and analytics/scouting might be on to something.  
 

No one can argue that they didn’t need to draft a goalie this year.  It could be they took the most worthy one for fear that they might not get him otherwise.   With 11 picks and 3 good looking 1st rounders this strategy is sound to me.  

Well, goalie is the most important position in hockey, just like QB is in the NFL.  Not surprising there are more posts, especially when he was considered to be a reach.

But who is to say he's a reach?  is there some master rating guide?  Like with QBs, if you think he'll be good, you take him earlier than you otherwise would out of FOMO.  Seattle was obviously looking for a goalie and might have taken him just a few picks later, leaving the Sabre without (the-rated top one). 

Edited July 9, 2022 by MBD

[postseasonblues]

I don't know why they didn't just draft the next Cale Makar or Connor McDavid with the 41st pick.

[Eleven]

21 minutes ago, kas23 said:

How can this be “need” when everyone and their sister knows this kid won’t reach the Sabres for at least 4-5 years?

This mentality is what lead to the dearth of goalies in the first place.

[Curt]

31 minutes ago, kas23 said:

But isn’t this an inherent part of the draft itself? Teams are drafting players because their pipeline needs players. 

Yes, in this case drafting a goalie because their pipeline needs goalies.

[dudacek]

39 minutes ago, kas23 said:

How can this be “need” when everyone and their sister knows this kid won’t reach the Sabres for at least 4-5 years?

My post was not referring to the current need.

I think others have answered this, but the organization didn’t draft a goalie the past 2 drafts and just 2 in their past 7.

A smart organization needs to constantly have someone coming up behind in the pipeline so there are other options when prospects fail like Johansson or move on because of contracts like Husso.