Rd 2, Pick #41: Topias Leinonen (G)

[GASabresIUFAN]

10 minutes ago, Contempt said:

Until he's under contract, he's not in the system.

Not exactly accurate.  As long as the Sabres hold his rights he is counted against our 90 player Reserve List.  

There are 3 important lists.  First, the NHL roster of 23.  Second the Contracts list limited to 50 players.  This includes all 23 NHL players, plus injured players and minor leaguers in the AHL or ECHL signed by the Sabres.  Signed players in the CHL don't typically count toward the 50.  All of draftees or players we hold the signing rights to (like Pilut) count toward the 90 player Reserve List.

So yes, Levi is in our system.

Edited July 8, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[Contempt]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

lol what?

He's not. He doesn't play for them, he's not under contract to them, they own his rights. Nothing more. All the guys they picked today aren't "in the pipeline" either until they their sign their ELCs. If you want to look at it differently go ahead

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, Contempt said:

He's not. He doesn't play for them, he's not under contract to them, they own his rights. Nothing more. All the guys they picked today aren't "in the pipeline" either until they their sign their ELCs. If you want to look at it differently go ahead

Please see above.

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Contempt said:

He's not. He doesn't play for them, he's not under contract to them, they own his rights. Nothing more. All the guys they picked today aren't "in the pipeline" either until they their sign their ELCs. If you want to look at it differently go ahead

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

100% agree. they could have taken him in the 3rd, this is a reach. I very reachy reach. They might have got him in round 4 to be honest.

as was pointed out a goalie went a few picks later so this take is wrong but I still don't like taking goalies this early.

[Second Line Center]

You draft a top end prospect goalie like Florida did, have 2 of them, and you can trade 1 in a package for Sam Reinhart.  

 

I'm not going to pretend I know anything about this goalie.  But I can tell you, still to this day outside of the QB in football and pitcher in baseball, the goalie is the most important position in sports. 

I know.  That's not how the team building in 2022 NHL works considering the cap.  I get it.  

Just because you don't break the bank for a goalie doesn't make the position less vital.  In fact with turnover because teams won't give big money extensions to them, having multiple in the system is more important then ever.

[Contempt]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Please see above.

Yes, I understand that. He's on the magic bean list until he signs his ELC.  Until that happens he's pipeline adjacent at best. His status is the same as Portillo's and Johnson's who also counts against the magic bean list but are probably going to walk away.  If Levi throws down another year like he just had he can choose his destination with absolutely no problems whatsoever. If you are seeing what's happening with Johnson and Portillo and then writing Levi's name down in ink you have a lot more faith than you should.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, Contempt said:

Yes, I understand that. He's on the magic bean list until he signs his ELC.  Until that happens he's pipeline adjacent at best. His status is the same as Portillo's and Johnson's who also counts against the magic bean list but are probably going to walk away.  If Levi throws down another year like he just had he can choose his destination with absolutely no problems whatsoever. If you are seeing what's happening with Johnson and Portillo and then writing Levi's name down in ink you have a lot more faith than you should.

You can say that about any drafted player.  Euro can walk away after 4 years just like the college kids.  Teams only have 2 years to sign CHL draftees. 

Guess what, how many drafted college kids in the history of the Sabres walked if the Sabres offered them a contract?  1, Cal Petersen.  Levi was very clear with KA.  He had zero problem with signing with the Sabres but wanted to go back to school for a chance to win a championship.  Portillo is in much the same boat.  He is in Michigan's excellent business school and wants to finish his degree and try to win a championship.  There is no indication that he won't sign as well.   If KA felt he had little or no chance to sign these guys, their rights would have already been traded.  

Sabres put together another improved year and the likelihood they don't sign further decreases.  

[Second Line Center]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

You can say that about any drafted player.  Euro can walk away after 4 years just like the college kids.  Teams only have 2 years to sign CHL draftees. 

Guess what, how many drafted college kids in the history of the Sabres walked if the Sabres offered them a contract?  1, Cal Petersen.  Levi was very clear with KA.  He had zero problem with signing with the Sabres but wanted to go back to school for a chance to win a championshiplived!!!!

 

Levi is my favorite prospect in this organization and maybe ever.  

 

The problem with the "only Cal Petersen" take is that was recent, and Portilo is going to go UFA making it 2 Sabres in 6 years (assuming he opts for UFA in 2023) 

AND both are goalies.  That's a trend.  

Until Levi signs an ELC we can't "count on" him.  KA can.  Maybe he knows something.  But Levi definitely did not leave an impression of 100% I'll be there so until he signs I'll be skeptical.  

Love him.  Want him to be here - and same Portillo for that matter.  

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, Second Line Center said:

Levi is my favorite prospect in this organization and maybe ever.  

 

The problem with the "only Cal Petersen" take is that was recent, and Portilo is going to go UFA making it 2 Sabres in 6 years (assuming he opts for UFA in 2023) 

AND both are goalies.  That's a trend.  

Until Levi signs an ELC we can't "count on" him.  KA can.  Maybe he knows something.  But Levi definitely did not leave an impression of 100% I'll be there so until he signs I'll be skeptical.  

Love him.  Want him to be here - and same Portillo for that matter.  

 

Again, then you can't "count" on any draft pick, because all picks can tell their NHL teams to F-off after a certain period of time.  Savoie can say he doesn't want to be a Sabre and return to the draft in 2 years.  Is that going to happen? Unlikely but it could.  Odds are he signs in the coming days and goes back to the WHL for next season.

Euro's can also sign and return to their current clubs.  This is probably why KA and his staff are concentrating on Euros in their drafts.  They get 4 years to develop the player, but can still sign them.  

That's my biggest gripe with the college thing.  Now with NIL, I think teams in all sports should be able to draft a college kid and return him to the school depending on the kids goals.  It would eliminate this alleged problem.

Edited July 8, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[kas23]

18 minutes ago, Second Line Center said:

Levi is my favorite prospect in this organization and maybe ever.  

 

The problem with the "only Cal Petersen" take is that was recent, and Portilo is going to go UFA making it 2 Sabres in 6 years (assuming he opts for UFA in 2023) 

AND both are goalies.  That's a trend.  

Until Levi signs an ELC we can't "count on" him.  KA can.  Maybe he knows something.  But Levi definitely did not leave an impression of 100% I'll be there so until he signs I'll be skeptical.  

Love him.  Want him to be here - and same Portillo for that matter.  

 

I agree. I dug up this article earlier today. It’s a good read. While I don’t know if Portillo is going to walk, I don’t think leaving before graduation was ever an option for him. 
 

https://www.buffalohockeybeat.com/sabres-goalie-prospect-erik-portillo-stands-out-on-ice/

 

I’m not ready to write him off yet. Every article I read about him brings up his view of academics. 

[Cheektorado]

8 minutes ago, kas23 said:

I agree. I dug up this article earlier today. It’s a good read. While I don’t know if Portillo is going to walk, I don’t think leaving before graduation was ever an option for him. 
 

https://www.buffalohockeybeat.com/sabres-goalie-prospect-erik-portillo-stands-out-on-ice/

 

I’m not ready to write him off yet. Every article I read about him brings up his view of academics. 

If Portillo (and Johnson for that matter) don't show up to the Development Camp next week I'm not counting on either to sign with the Sabres.

I hope they do and catch some hype for the future of the Sabres.  

[MBD]

I'd take the drafting of Leinonen as a sign EP isn't going to sign, for reasons I've mentioned.  But no matter.  UPL is no longer a prospect and it's now-or-never for him.  and the guy I'm looking forward to seeing is Levi, who would also be slated to sign next year, if he's going to sign (and I think he will, but until his name is on that contract...) and who was drafted 2 years ago.

[DarthEbriate]

2 minutes ago, MBD said:

I'd take the drafting of Leinonen as a sign EP isn't going to sign, for reasons I've mentioned.  But no matter.  UPL is no longer a prospect and it's now-or-never for him.  and the guy I'm looking forward to seeing is Levi, who would also be slated to sign next year, if he's going to sign (and I think he will, but until his name is on that contract...) and who was drafted 2 years ago.

I... I...  I don't know what to say. A 22 year-old goalie who has had injury- and COVID-schedule-impacted seasons in terms of games played is no longer a prospect?

 

Was Tim Thomas not still a prospect at age 23? (1st NHL season age 28). Was Dominik Hasek no longer a prospect at age 22? (1st NHL season age 26, 1st Sabres season age 28)

[MBD]

Just now, DarthEbriate said:

I... I...  I don't know what to say. A 22 year-old goalie who has had injury- and COVID-schedule-impacted seasons in terms of games played is no longer a prospect?

Was Tim Thomas not still a prospect at age 23? (1st NHL season age 28). Was Dominik Hasek no longer a prospect at age 22? (1st NHL season age 26, 1st Sabres season age 28)

 

He was drafted 5 years ago.  Time to see what he's got in the NHL.

[Derrico]

2 hours ago, Brawndo said:

The Sabres had a First Round Grade on Him and He was in consideration for the 28th Pick if Kulich was gone 😬

Ya I came to post fortons quote from post draft.  Sound like he was really in consideration at 29 OA.

[GASabresIUFAN]

13 minutes ago, Cheektorado said:

If Portillo (and Johnson for that matter) don't show up to the Development Camp next week I'm not counting on either to sign with the Sabres.

I hope they do and catch some hype for the future of the Sabres.  

KA has already said both Johnson and Portillo will be attending the Development Camp. 

[Curt]

14 minutes ago, MBD said:

I'd take the drafting of Leinonen as a sign EP isn't going to sign, for reasons I've mentioned.  But no matter.  UPL is no longer a prospect and it's now-or-never for him.  and the guy I'm looking forward to seeing is Levi, who would also be slated to sign next year, if he's going to sign (and I think he will, but until his name is on that contract...) and who was drafted 2 years ago.

With regards to UPL, I think you need to take a long look at what ages goalies generally become good NHL players.  In no way is it now or never for a 23 year old.

[bob_sauve28]

14 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

I... I...  I don't know what to say. A 22 year-old goalie who has had injury- and COVID-schedule-impacted seasons in terms of games played is no longer a prospect?

 

Was Tim Thomas not still a prospect at age 23? (1st NHL season age 28). Was Dominik Hasek no longer a prospect at age 22? (1st NHL season age 26, 1st Sabres season age 28)

Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other; I've seen a lot of strange goalie stuff. But I've never seen anything to make me believe that there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything about goaltending. There's no mystical energy field that controls my draft destiny.

 

Sorry, best I could do 

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, Brawndo said:

The Sabres had a First Round Grade on Him and He was in consideration for the 28th Pick if Kulich was gone 😬

 

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That's kind of scary

 

I wonder how much of that is analytics driven?

He passes the horseflesh test with that frame, but apparently not the eye test, based on his consensus ranking. His counting stats are meh.

I want four years like last year, when all the prospects were popping, so people start talking about to the Sabre development pipeline like they do Tampa's.

I want to be that team where pending UFA Victor Olofsson gets flipped for a 1st at the deadline and Victor Neuchaev (I'll learn to spell it later) slides right in to take his place.

[Derrico]

For those doubting the pick have a listen to forton interview post draft (I’m sure wgr will have it).  Sabres scouts are very very high on this kid.  Big and athletic Finn.  
 

In summary, he said there was a huge drop off after this kid for goalies( according to their draft board).  They were debating yesterday whether to take him at 28 or ‘gamble’ and see if they could still take him where they did.  Went into the scouting and interviews they’ve had with all of his club coaches and goalie coaches and they really believe in him.  I know every team is saying that right now but it was interesting how excited he seemed.  After the Quinn / Peterka draft I said I’m going to just leave my trust in this new analytics management group.  I will be very interested watching this kids development.

[Flashsabre]

6 minutes ago, Derrico said:

For those doubting the pick have a listen to forton interview post draft (I’m sure wgr will have it).  Sabres scouts are very very high on this kid.  Big and athletic Finn.  
 

In summary, he said there was a huge drop off after this kid for goalies( according to their draft board).  They were debating yesterday whether to take him at 28 or ‘gamble’ and see if they could still take him where they did.  Went into the scouting and interviews they’ve had with all of his club coaches and goalie coaches and they really believe in him.  I know every team is saying that right now but it was interesting how excited he seemed.  After the Quinn / Peterka draft I said I’m going to just leave my trust in this new analytics management group.  I will be very interested watching this kids development.

None of us know about him but kudos for them for getting their guy. They took the first goalie in the draft so they had their pick of all of them and thought he was the best so be it. No one knows how an 18 year old goalie will work out but if you believe in one then grab him.

They should draft one every year so it is great that they got another one.

[thewookie1]

1 minute ago, Derrico said:

For those doubting the pick have a listen to forton interview post draft (I’m sure wgr will have it).  Sabres scouts are very very high on this kid.  Big and athletic Finn.  
 

In summary, he said there was a huge drop off after this kid for goalies( according to their draft board).  They were debating yesterday whether to take him at 28 or ‘gamble’ and see if they could still take him where they did.  Went into the scouting and interviews they’ve had with all of his club coaches and goalie coaches and they really believe in him.  I know every team is saying that right now but it was interesting how excited he seemed.  After the Quinn / Peterka draft I said I’m going to just leave my trust in this new analytics management group.  I will be very interested watching this kids development.

This is what I figured after Seattle took a goalie. 
 

Adams wanted to bring in a prospect goalie this year due to their direly shrinking pool; but the problem was they only deemed one worth using a pick on. He didn’t want a “Kasdorf” but at very least a prospect with a chance of being a legit NHL goalie. To the scouts, this guy was the lone wolf. Hence the thought of taking him at 28. They knew he was generally graded between rounds 3&4 but Adams likely caught wind of Seattle’s interest in a Finish goalie and effectively decided grabbing their target and lone legit goalie was more valuable then anything else. Perhaps Seattle wanted their guy all along or perhaps they reached upon our pick. After this pick they seemed very content with BPA which makes me guess there was some degree of outside influence to this pick’s timing.

[French Collection]

Pre draft there were many posters who wanted to draft a goalie. I was in this camp and I believe they should take one every year so that there is a pipeline.

Most feel that this was too early but it is the guy they wanted. There is another goalie prospect in the ranks.

[The Jokeman]

6 hours ago, Gatorman0519 said:

Sounds like Levi and Portillo are not passionate about signing with us. 

Levi has played one season in college, I fully expected him to play another season. Portillo feels like he's not going to sign and best we trade his rights for seone. Even if he did sign I think either one are 3 seasons away from being in the NHL. Let's hope Adams can get a starter/split starter for the next few seasons.

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

 

 

I wonder how much of that is analytics driven?

He passes the horseflesh test with that frame, but apparently not the eye test, based on his consensus ranking. His counting stats are meh.

I want four years like last year, when all the prospects were popping, so people start talking about to the Sabre development pipeline like they do Tampa's.

I want to be that team where pending UFA Victor Olofsson gets flipped for a 1st at the deadline and Victor Neuchaev (I'll learn to spell it later) slides right in to take his place.

I get the impression that there were picks made where the analytics group wasn’t in agreement with the scouting staff and this was one of them IMO 

Edited July 8, 2022 by Brawndo