Around the NHL: 2022 Off-season

[Thorner]

MacKinnon did the Avs a huge solid. 100k more than McDavid’s deal, when McDavid signed his *5* years ago? Especially with the cap going way up. He’s also been on a bargain deal previous to this. Dude could have broken the bank but went for the new watermark deal by the smallest amount possible. 

Leafs will be lucky for Matthews to take that route, and I don’t see him doing it tbh

[Taro T]

  On 9/20/2022 at 9:15 PM, Thorny said:

MacKinnon did the Avs a huge solid. 100k more than McDavid’s deal, when McDavid signed his *5* years ago? Especially with the cap going way up. He’s also been on a bargain deal previous to this. Dude could have broken the bank but went for the new watermark deal by the smallest amount possible. 

Leafs will be lucky for Matthews to take that route, and I don’t see him doing it tbh

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But MacKinnon seems to understand that:

1.  You CAN have enough money;

2.  With a hard salary cap, if he leaves a couple extra $million on the table, it's available for ideally teammates that can help him win; and

3.  If the Avs have the right culture, it could actually convince some other guys like Landeskog that could break the bank to leave a small amount on the table & then there's that much more available to be able to afford 3rd & 4th liners that aren't TOTAL JAGs.

He needs to have faith in management to do so, but he had that faith at his previous contract negotiation & now he's a SC champion for his faith.

Edited September 20, 2022 by Taro T

[Thorner]

  On 9/20/2022 at 9:47 PM, Taro T said:

But MacKinnon seems to understand that:

1.  You CAN have enough money;

2.  With a hard salary cap, if he leaves a couple extra $million on the table, it's available for ideally teammates that can help him win; and

3.  If the Avs have the right culture, it could actually convince some other guys like Landeskog that could break the bank to leave a small amount on the table & then there's that much more available to be able to afford 3rd & 4th liners that aren't TOTAL JAGs.

He needs to have faith in management to do so, but he had that faith at his previous contract negotiation & now he's a SC champion for his faith.

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I’m not arguing that it doesn’t make sense for him personally. Merely that there are also arguments for going in a different direction. None of which would need to necessarily call into question his regard for “culture”.

You can argue he’s being a good teammate, you can also argue he’s artificially kneecapping what the rest of the league’s players get on their deals, respectfully. Often the players association as a whole relies on players continually bumping up the market, rising that tide for all boats.

He could have reasonably taken more, and it still been more than fair. 

On the other side of the coin, he’s obviously not going hungry anytime soon with a shiny new 100mil deal. 

But declining to truly break bank is not something you see in other sports very often. LeBron, Rodgers, whoever. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by Thorny

[Taro T]

  On 9/20/2022 at 9:54 PM, Thorny said:

I’m not arguing that it doesn’t make sense for him personally. Merely that there are also arguments for going in a different direction. None of which would need to necessarily call into question his regard for “culture”.

You can argue he’s being a good teammate, you can also argue he’s artificially kneecapping what the rest of the league’s players get on their deals, respectfully. Often the players association as a whole relies on players continually bumping up the market, rising that tide for all boats.

He could have reasonably taken more, and it still been more than fair. 

On the other side of the coin, he’s obviously not going hungry anytime soon with a shiny new 100mil deal. 

But declining to truly break bank is not something you see in other sports very often. LeBron, Rodgers, whoever. 

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Actually, by artificially lowering his own salary, he's definitely giving (some of) his teammates more money & if the Avs stay under the cap he's giving every single player in the league a few extra shekels as the demonimator used to adjust everybody's salary to an aggregate 50% of HRR is that much smaller.

[Curt]

  On 9/20/2022 at 9:54 PM, Thorny said:

I’m not arguing that it doesn’t make sense for him personally. Merely that there are also arguments for going in a different direction. None of which would need to necessarily call into question his regard for “culture”.

You can argue he’s being a good teammate, you can also argue he’s artificially kneecapping what the rest of the league’s players get on their deals, respectfully. Often the players association as a whole relies on players continually bumping up the market, rising that tide for all boats.

He could have reasonably taken more, and it still been more than fair. 

On the other side of the coin, he’s obviously not going hungry anytime soon with a shiny new 100mil deal. 

But declining to truly break bank is not something you see in other sports very often. LeBron, Rodgers, whoever. 

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I understand that he probably could have played real hard ball and held firm for even more, but he did just sign a record breaking largest ever NHL contract, so I wouldn’t characterize this as him leaving tons on the table.  He is undoubtedly one of the league’s best players, but he isn’t the hands down best player in the league either.  I think it was a fair deal for both sides.

[Thorner]

  On 9/20/2022 at 10:29 PM, Curt said:

I understand that he probably could have played real hard ball and held firm for even more, but he did just sign a record breaking largest ever NHL contract, so I wouldn’t characterize this as him leaving tons on the table.  He is undoubtedly one of the league’s best players, but he isn’t the hands down best player in the league either.  I think it was a fair deal for both sides.

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These things are more often signposted and navigated by the market, not what is “fair for both sides”. This is my initial point. I don’t need an explanation for how the conservative NHL generally operates, that’s paramount in my argument. 

I wouldn’t be surprised if we start to see a shift with the younger generation, I could see a Matthews going the “pay me my market value” approach. 

[Thorner]

Rodgers just signed for 11% more per than Patrick Mahomes. A deal that Mahomes recently signed.

MacKinnon just signed for 0.8 percent more, per than McDavid 

And before I see a “well, it’s McDavid” argument: Wilson, Kyler Murray, and Deshaun Watson all make more than Mahomes. 

It’s more about *when* you sign, in other sports, and though this is a somewhat present factor in the NHL, the “take less to support the team” narrative runs FAR more rampant in the conservative, apologies-for-getting-paid market value NHL. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by Thorny

[Two or less]

  On 9/20/2022 at 1:11 PM, LGR4GM said:

Zdeno Chara

PK Subban

Keith Yandle

Have all retired officially.

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With this news and Joe Thornton remaining un-signed, it makes Craig Anderson as the last player remaining who was drafted in the 1990's.

 

  On 9/20/2022 at 2:43 PM, MattPie said:

Still surprised Suban didn't catch on anywhere. Or maybe it just wasn't worth a minimal offer to get beat up for a year to him.

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I read earlier on twitter some reporter from Montreal say Subban was only willing to play one more time with Montreal or compete for the Cup with Toronto, and once he was told neither of these two were an option anymore, Subban retired.

[French Collection]

  On 9/20/2022 at 10:33 PM, Thorny said:

These things are more often signposted and navigated by the market, not what is “fair for both sides”. This is my initial point. I don’t need an explanation for how the conservative NHL generally operates, that’s paramount in my argument. 

I wouldn’t be surprised if we start to see a shift with the younger generation, I could see a Matthews going the “pay me my market value” approach. 

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Matthews will definitely want to get paid. He skipped junior and NCAA to play in the Swiss league and make money as a 17 year old. $400K if I recall.

This is my opinion, but he always gives off a bit of a selfish vibe. Maybe it is because of his shooting ability but I can’t understand how a C gets more goals than assists when they hand out 2A for every goal.

Tavares will get his Leafs pyjamas in a knot when they have to buy him out or trade him in order to give Matthews the $15M he will ask for.

[French Collection]

  On 9/20/2022 at 9:54 PM, Thorny said:

I’m not arguing that it doesn’t make sense for him personally. Merely that there are also arguments for going in a different direction. None of which would need to necessarily call into question his regard for “culture”.

You can argue he’s being a good teammate, you can also argue he’s artificially kneecapping what the rest of the league’s players get on their deals, respectfully. Often the players association as a whole relies on players continually bumping up the market, rising that tide for all boats.

He could have reasonably taken more, and it still been more than fair. 

On the other side of the coin, he’s obviously not going hungry anytime soon with a shiny new 100mil deal. 

But declining to truly break bank is not something you see in other sports very often. LeBron, Rodgers, whoever. 

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The NHLPA probably doesn’t like it but the Avs management and his teammates are happy. They can contend for a while now and when the cap goes up they can extend Byram, Newhook and whoever else becomes a core piece.

[Brawndo]

https://nypost.com/2022/09/20/mlb-nba-and-nhl-may-buy-biggest-owner-of-regional-sports-tv-networks-sources/

 

NHL, NBA and MLB maybe purchasing the Regional Sports Network Bally’s. This should not effect the Sabres Broadcasts in any manner. 

[Hank]

  On 9/20/2022 at 11:02 PM, French Collection said:

Matthews will definitely want to get paid. He skipped junior and NCAA to play in the Swiss league and make money as a 17 year old. $400K if I recall.

This is my opinion, but he always gives off a bit of a selfish vibe. Maybe it is because of his shooting ability but I can’t understand how a C gets more goals than assists when they hand out 2A for every goal.

Tavares will get his Leafs pyjamas in a knot when they have to buy him out or trade him in order to give Matthews the $15M he will ask for.

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I don't think there's any chance Matthews signs with the Leafs. I think that's why his current deal ends his first year of UFA eligibility. He's gone. 

[French Collection]

  On 9/21/2022 at 12:16 AM, Hank said:

I don't think there's any chance Matthews signs with the Leafs. I think that's why his current deal ends his first year of UFA eligibility. He's gone. 

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Exactly, he signed for 5 years for that reason. I don’t think he enjoys the scrutiny of the Toronto media, even though they fawn all over him for his regular season exploits.

Most Leafs fans think he’s going to automatically re-sign, who in their right doesn’t want to play for them?

[PerreaultForever]

  On 9/20/2022 at 11:02 PM, French Collection said:

Matthews will definitely want to get paid. He skipped junior and NCAA to play in the Swiss league and make money as a 17 year old. $400K if I recall.

This is my opinion, but he always gives off a bit of a selfish vibe. Maybe it is because of his shooting ability but I can’t understand how a C gets more goals than assists when they hand out 2A for every goal.

Tavares will get his Leafs pyjamas in a knot when they have to buy him out or trade him in order to give Matthews the $15M he will ask for.

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Don't forget he's not a guy who grew up loving the Leafs. Like Johnny Hockey, he might even want out to go to a big American market. So he will ask for the big big bucks imo. 

[PerreaultForever]

 

[mjd1001]

  On 9/21/2022 at 1:08 AM, French Collection said:

Exactly, he signed for 5 years for that reason. I don’t think he enjoys the scrutiny of the Toronto media, even though they fawn all over him for his regular season exploits.

Most Leafs fans think he’s going to automatically re-sign, who in their right doesn’t want to play for them?

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On 590 radio out of Toronto a couple years ago (after he signed his current deal) there were some of their 'experts' talking about Matthews.  They did no come to the conclusion that he would not stay in Toronto long term, but a lot of the things they brought up pointed that way.  At the time he wasn't spending much time at all in Toronto in the offseason.  They said he had a VERY close group of friends that were from Arizona where he grew up and he spends a lot of time with him.  They said he loves his hometown and loves the desert.  Again, they drew no conclusions, but it really REALLY sounded like, if the Coyotes were on the upswing he would want to play there for sure when his current deal is up, or anyplace in the US southwest at least (L.A., Arizona, Vegas, Dallas, etc.

There is also some speculation out there (prosportsfanatics web sites, Coyotes fans social media) where they seem to be thinking he will be offered $16 million per year to 'come home' to AZ in 2024.

Again, this was a couple years ago and things can change, but at the time it really sounded like hocky "in Toronto" was nothing more than a job until he had the ability to choose exactly where he wants to play.

Edited September 21, 2022 by mjd1001

[Sabres Fan in NS]

  On 9/20/2022 at 11:02 PM, French Collection said:

Matthews will definitely want to get paid. He skipped junior and NCAA to play in the Swiss league and make money as a 17 year old. $400K if I recall.

This is my opinion, but he always gives off a bit of a selfish vibe. Maybe it is because of his shooting ability but I can’t understand how a C gets more goals than assists when they hand out 2A for every goal.

Tavares will get his Leafs pyjamas in a knot when they have to buy him out or trade him in order to give Matthews the $15M he will ask for.

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Mark my words ...

If The Great Satan does not win the cup this year Matthews will be traded before July 1, 2023 when his NMC kicks in.

[MattPie]

  On 9/21/2022 at 1:23 PM, Sabres Fan in NS said:

Mark my words ...

If The Great Satan does not win the cup this year Matthews will be traded before July 1, 2023 when his NMC kicks in.

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I hope not. Well, not sure. I think I normal team could turn Matthews into enough very good pieces (a la the Eric Lindros or (hopefully) Eichel trades) to be a better team afterwards. Somehow, I think Toronto would do something dumb and they'd get worse.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

  On 9/21/2022 at 1:12 PM, mjd1001 said:

On 590 radio out of Toronto a couple years ago (after he signed his current deal) there were some of their 'experts' talking about Matthews.  They did no come to the conclusion that he would not stay in Toronto long term, but a lot of the things they brought up pointed that way.  At the time he wasn't spending much time at all in Toronto in the offseason.  They said he had a VERY close group of friends that were from Arizona where he grew up and he spends a lot of time with him.  They said he loves his hometown and loves the desert.  Again, they drew no conclusions, but it really REALLY sounded like, if the Coyotes were on the upswing he would want to play there for sure when his current deal is up, or anyplace in the US southwest at least (L.A., Arizona, Vegas, Dallas, etc.

There is also some speculation out there (prosportsfanatics web sites, Coyotes fans social media) where they seem to be thinking he will be offered $16 million per year to 'come home' to AZ in 2024.

Again, this was a couple years ago and things can change, but at the time it really sounded like hocky "in Toronto" was nothing more than a job until he had the ability to choose exactly where he wants to play.

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I think he will be traded to LA by July 1, 2023.  He will be sighned to an extension ... 8 years ... $120M ... $15M AAV.

[LTS]

  On 9/20/2022 at 10:38 PM, Thorny said:

Rodgers just signed for 11% more per than Patrick Mahomes. A deal that Mahomes recently signed.

MacKinnon just signed for 0.8 percent more, per than McDavid 

And before I see a “well, it’s McDavid” argument: Wilson, Kyler Murray, and Deshaun Watson all make more than Mahomes. 

It’s more about *when* you sign, in other sports, and though this is a somewhat present factor in the NHL, the “take less to support the team” narrative runs FAR more rampant in the conservative, apologies-for-getting-paid market value NHL. 

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True, but it's also about guaranteed money.  Lots of NFL players get BIG contracts but never see the full amount.  The way the NHL operates as a whole changes the contract discussion immensely.  It makes comparisons very difficult.

  On 9/20/2022 at 11:52 PM, Brawndo said:

https://nypost.com/2022/09/20/mlb-nba-and-nhl-may-buy-biggest-owner-of-regional-sports-tv-networks-sources/

 

NHL, NBA and MLB maybe purchasing the Regional Sports Network Bally’s. This should not effect the Sabres Broadcasts in any manner. 

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Is this a good thing?  I find MSGs broadcasts to be truly awful.

I'd like to see the leagues take over the regional networks and build a comprehensive streaming package as well as offering cable networks the ability to carry the channels as well.

[Brawndo]

  On 9/21/2022 at 2:31 PM, LTS said:

True, but it's also about guaranteed money.  Lots of NFL players get BIG contracts but never see the full amount.  The way the NHL operates as a whole changes the contract discussion immensely.  It makes comparisons very difficult.

Is this a good thing?  I find MSGs broadcasts to be truly awful.

I'd like to see the leagues take over the regional networks and build a comprehensive streaming package as well as offering cable networks the ability to carry the channels as well.

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With The Owner of the Rangers also owning MSG Network, that’s probably not going to happen 

[Doohickie]

  On 9/21/2022 at 2:31 PM, LTS said:

Is this a good thing?  I find MSGs broadcasts to be truly awful.

I'd like to see the leagues take over the regional networks and build a comprehensive streaming package as well as offering cable networks the ability to carry the channels as well.

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They're taking over Bally's Sports Net which used to be Fox Sports.  They don't own MSG so there is no effect on Sabres broadcasts.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Doohickie

[PerreaultForever]

  On 9/21/2022 at 1:23 PM, Sabres Fan in NS said:

Mark my words ...

If The Great Satan does not win the cup this year Matthews will be traded before July 1, 2023 when his NMC kicks in.

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Matthews is saying "I view Toronto as home" right now but it could be negotiating bs. I still think as an American he will want to go to a big U.S. market or a southern Florida/California type team. I doubt Toronto gets any kind of hometown discount. 

[JustOneParade]

  On 9/21/2022 at 6:46 PM, PerreaultForever said:

Matthews is saying "I view Toronto as home" right now but it could be negotiating bs. I still think as an American he will want to go to a big U.S. market or a southern Florida/California type team. I doubt Toronto gets any kind of hometown discount. 

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As it is that is a pretty tepid endorsement. But can you imagine if he said anything viewed as being contradictory to that statement? The Leafs fans and the Toronto media would eat him alive for the rest of his time there. Or he would simply claim to be misunderstood. 

[Zamboni]

  On 9/21/2022 at 7:50 PM, JustOneParade said:

As it is that is a pretty tepid endorsement. But can you imagine if he said anything viewed as being contradictory to that statement? The Leafs fans and the Toronto media would eat him alive for the rest of his time there. Or he would simply claim to be misunderstood. 

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Exactly. I don’t understand how sometimes people want to read so deeply into players comments, coaches comments, or GM’s comments and make more out of it, or misinterpret them to twist to their own agenda or hopes. And it happens all the time. People put too much faith into what “public figures” say to media.