Sabres Prospects 2022-2023

[Flashsabre]

12 minutes ago, French Collection said:

Josh Bloom is no longer a Sabres prospect but because he plays near me I have watched most of his playoff games.

He is on a good team but is now basically a third liner. He has 7 points in 12 games, about half of his regular season pace. He plays on both special teams but is not a real important piece.

He might develop into an NHL player but I think the Sabres will get more out of Stillman than they would have with Bloom.

 

I watched him in Oshawa against the Generals and came away not worried about the trade at all.

[GASabresIUFAN]

14 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

I watched him in Oshawa against the Generals and came away not worried about the trade at all.

Remember 80+ % of 3rd picks don't ever amount to legit NHL players, so the odds of Bloom ever becoming a full-time useful NHL player are small.  Therefore, when you get an NHL player for a 3rd or its equivalent, the GM didn't give up much.  However, that still doesn't make Stillman a good acquisition.  Stillman is at best a 7 or an 8 and when he plays he isn't much if any of an upgrade on Bryson or Clague.  To me, that's a wasted move.  You could have acquired the equivalent of Stillman for nothing on the waiver wire.  

[Buffalonill]

22 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Remember 80+ % of 3rd picks don't ever amount to legit NHL players, so the odds of Bloom ever becoming a full-time useful NHL player are small.  Therefore, when you get an NHL player for a 3rd or its equivalent, the GM didn't give up much.  However, that still doesn't make Stillman a good acquisition.  Stillman is at best a 7 or an 8 and when he plays he isn't much if any of an upgrade on Bryson or Clague.  To me, that's a wasted move.  You could have acquired the equivalent of Stillman for nothing on the waiver wire.  

rather they went after luke schenn oh well 

[GASabresIUFAN]

42 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

rather they went after luke schenn oh well 

I'd have rather them make a deal for a 4th D and we'd have made the playoffs.  I'd have rather given up a 5th for Ethan Bear during the 8 game-losing streak and we'd have made the playoffs.  I'd have rather a lot of things.  Stillman is not good, has never been good, and won't be next season.  

[Flashsabre]

55 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I'd have rather them make a deal for a 4th D and we'd have made the playoffs.  I'd have rather given up a 5th for Ethan Bear during the 8 game-losing streak and we'd have made the playoffs.  I'd have rather a lot of things.  Stillman is not good, has never been good, and won't be next season.  

Disagree. Stillman played solid in Buffalo’s system. He is a bottom pairing dman and like you said might be depth on a good d core. But he brought value to the Sabres. He played physically and was not a liability at all. He brought a much needed different element then Bryson or Clague.

[MBD]

Stillman also joined the team late in the season.

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Remember 80+ % of 3rd picks don't ever amount to legit NHL players, so the odds of Bloom ever becoming a full-time useful NHL player are small.  Therefore, when you get an NHL player for a 3rd or its equivalent, the GM didn't give up much.  However, that still doesn't make Stillman a good acquisition.  Stillman is at best a 7 or an 8 and when he plays he isn't much if any of an upgrade on Bryson or Clague.  To me, that's a wasted move.  You could have acquired the equivalent of Stillman for nothing on the waiver wire.  

How is it a bad deal to give up a player that you believe is unlikely to become a useful or even a NHL player in the league for a defenseman who is a lower pairing player on your roster? Stillman is a young player. Even if at best he remains a lower pairing player that doesn't mean that he can't be a capable player at that pairing level. That's not a wasted move. It's a good move. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

How is it a bad deal to give up a player that you believe is unlikely to become a useful or even a NHL player in the league for a defenseman who is a lower pairing player on your roster? Stillman is a young player. Even if at best he remains a lower pairing player that doesn't mean that he can't be a capable player at that pairing level. That's not a wasted move. It's a good move. 

Why pay something for an “asset” when a similar asset could have been acquired earlier in the season when it was truly needed for less or nothing?  What exactly did Stillman bring to the table? He played 12 minutes a game.  He didn’t block shots, didn’t hit people and took bad penalties. This isn’t a capable player.  
 

Let’s compare Ethan Bear who was traded for a 5th rd pick when we needed help.  He put up 16 pts, was a +6, blocked 82 shots and skated 18:30 minutes a night for Vancouver in 61 games after being acquired. He’s also just 25.

 

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Why pay something for an “asset” when a similar asset could have been acquired earlier in the season when it was truly needed for less or nothing?  What exactly did Stillman bring to the table? He played 12 minutes a game.  He didn’t block shots, didn’t hit people and took bad penalties. This isn’t a capable player.  
 

Let’s compare Ethan Bear who was traded for a 5th rd pick when we needed help.  He put up 16 pts, was a +6, blocked 82 shots and skated 18:30 minutes a night for Vancouver in 61 games after being acquired. He’s also just 25.

 

Stillman is still a young player. Even if his upside is as fourth pairing player, you got him for a player who is more likely not to even become a NHL player. If you can get another lower pairing player for a fifth round pick, then add that player to roster and create more depth on the thin unit. I just don't understand your reasoning that giving up nothing for something is worthy of scoffing at. 

Edited April 26, 2023 by JohnC

[GASabresIUFAN]

13 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Stillman is still a young player. Even if his upside is as fourth pairing player, you got him for a player who is more likely not to even become a NHL player. If you can get another lower pairing player for a fifth round pick, then add that player to roster and create more depth on the thin unit. I just don't understand your reasoning that giving up nothing for something is worthy of scoffing at. 

I have zero problem with trading Bloom or a 3rd or a 5th or anything. I just want something useful back.  Stillman is not useful.  We needed help on D virtually all season and the best KA could do was acquire a player DG couldn't trust him enough to play him over 12 minutes a game on a team desperate for help on D.  That is a useless player no matter how you spin it.   

I still don't understand how anyone can defend the acquisition when better players were available all season on the waiver wire or for an even less valuable asset.  Stillman is that bad.  People say he's better than Bryson and Clague and they may be right. That's not an endorsement of Stillman, it's an indictment of how awful Bryson and Clague were this past season.  

If our fearless GM had some ......., he'd wipe the D slate clean, and move on from everyone not named Dahlin, Power or Samuelsson (Ok Bush can finish out his contract).  Waive, trade, dump, whatever Stillman, and Bryson.  Try to find a hockey trade of a stay-at-home LD who'd make us harder to play against and include Joki in the deal.  Sign Orlov for 3-4 years to partner with and mentor Power. 

Start next year with

Dahlin Samuelsson

Power Orlov

New D  Lyubuskin

New D who is better than Stillman (I'd like another Vet here)

If we can't trade Stillman, waive him and let him play in Rochester.  His 1.35 cap hit would be reduced to 250K and I doubt he'd get claimed. 

 

[Carmel Corn]

22 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I have zero problem with trading Bloom or a 3rd or a 5th or anything. I just want something useful back.  Stillman is not useful.  We needed help on D virtually all season and the best KA could do was acquire a player DG couldn't trust him enough to play him over 12 minutes a game on a team desperate for help on D.  That is a useless player no matter how you spin it.   

If our fearless GM had some ......., he'd wipe the D slate clean, and move on from everyone not named Dahlin, Power or Samuelsson (Ok Bush can finish out his contract).  Waive, trade, dump, whatever Stillman, and Bryson.  Try to find a hockey trade of a stay-at-home LD who'd make us harder to play against and include Joki in the deal.  Sign Orlov for 3-4 years to partner with and mentor Power. 

If we can't trade Stillman, waive him and let him play in Rochester.  His 1.35 cap hit would be reduced to 250K and I doubt he'd get claimed. 

 

Sure, Stillman is not a top 4 guy and never will be, but we needed a better 5/6 guy, which he clearly is vs. Clague and Bryson.  Sure other (maybe better) guys were available as pending UFA's, but I didn't want GMKA to overpay for them, which he did not do for Stillman.  Waiving Stillman is pretty ridiculous now, when you traded away an asset to get him and he's also under contract still.  Stillman did not have the benefit of being with our team long, so I'd like to think he can improve with more time and a camp with the team.  Trading for a stay-at-home LD is not necessarily the only goal....I'd say a stay at home RHD is even better.  Trading Joki is not the answer either.  I hate his game as a top 4 guy, but he's more tolerable as a 5/6 guy...which is where he belongs.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, Carmel Corn said:

Sure, Stillman is not a top 4 guy and never will be, but we needed a better 5/6 guy, which he clearly is vs. Clague and Bryson.  Sure other (maybe better) guys were available as pending UFA's, but I didn't want GMKA to overpay for them, which he did not do for Stillman.  Waiving Stillman is pretty ridiculous now, when you traded away an asset to get him and he's also under contract still.  Stillman did not have the benefit of being with our team long, so I'd like to think he can improve with more time and a camp with the team.  Trading for a stay-at-home LD is not necessarily the only goal....I'd say a stay at home RHD is even better.  Trading Joki is not the answer either.  I hate his game as a top 4 guy, but he's more tolerable as a 5/6 guy...which is where he belongs.  

Do yourself a favor and look at their analytics.  These are all mediocre to bad hockey players.  Joki, Stillman, Clague, and Bryson are not championship-caliber hockey players.  

When a GM makes a mistake, like Stillman, who is on a cheap contract, he can move on which is what KA should do.  Sending him down keeps him in the organization for emergency use.  Stillman is not a 5/6.  If a team as bad defensively as Buffalo was last year is only willing to play him 12 minutes a night, that tells you he really isn't good enough to be a 3rd pairing player.  He was being used because the other options were worse.  

There is no reason, especially with our cap room for KA to make us suffer through another season with 50% of the D group that stinks.  It's also more important than ever to upgrade the D group.  We are a playoff-caliber team and need better D.  We also need a stronger D group to protect the young goaltenders.  We also need guys under contract with term because we have no near-ready prospects in the pipeline. (This is a prospect thread after all.)

Edited April 26, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[Crusader1969]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Do yourself a favor and look at their analytics.  These are all mediocre to bad hockey players.  Joki, Stillman, Clague, and Bryson are not championship-caliber hockey players.  

When a GM makes a mistake, like Stillman, who is on a cheap contract, he can move on which is what KA should do.  Sending him down keeps him in the organization for emergency use.  Stillman is not a 5/6.  If a team as bad defensively as Buffalo was last year is only willing to play him 12 minutes a night, that tells you he really isn't good enough to be a 3rd pairing player.  He was being used because the other options were worse.  

There is no reason, especially with our cap room for KA to make us suffer through another season with 50% of the D group that stinks.  It's also more important than ever to upgrade the D group.  We are a playoff-caliber team and need better D.  We also need a stronger D group to protect the young goaltenders.  We also need guys under contract with term because we have no near-ready prospects in the pipeline. (This is a prospect thread after all.)

Think you are too early to judge Stillman in the Sabres system.  He probably ends up as the 6th or 7th Dman when they start the season 

[DarthEbriate]

Saskatoon rallies from a 3-0 series deficit to send Red Deer (and Mats Lindgren) into summer. The Blades meet ICE and Savoie (and why is ICE all caps?) in the Eastern Western Hockey League final. Juggernauts Seattle and Kamloops square off in the Western Western HL final.

[Zamboni]

1 hour ago, Crusader1969 said:

Think you are too early to judge Stillman in the Sabres system.  He probably ends up as the 6th or 7th Dman when they start the season 

Yep. Most fair minded fans don’t mind Stillman next season as long as he’s slotted and used correctly. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, Zamboni said:

Yep. Most fair minded fans don’t mind Stillman next season as long as he’s slotted and used correctly. 

I don't mind Stillman next season as long as he is slotted correctly either;  meaning not in the lineup unless there is a dire emergency.

[JohnC]

11 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I have zero problem with trading Bloom or a 3rd or a 5th or anything. I just want something useful back.  Stillman is not useful.  We needed help on D virtually all season and the best KA could do was acquire a player DG couldn't trust him enough to play him over 12 minutes a game on a team desperate for help on D.  That is a useless player no matter how you spin it.   

I still don't understand how anyone can defend the acquisition when better players were available all season on the waiver wire or for an even less valuable asset.  Stillman is that bad.  People say he's better than Bryson and Clague and they may be right. That's not an endorsement of Stillman, it's an indictment of how awful Bryson and Clague were this past season.  

If our fearless GM had some ......., he'd wipe the D slate clean, and move on from everyone not named Dahlin, Power or Samuelsson (Ok Bush can finish out his contract).  Waive, trade, dump, whatever Stillman, and Bryson.  Try to find a hockey trade of a stay-at-home LD who'd make us harder to play against and include Joki in the deal.  Sign Orlov for 3-4 years to partner with and mentor Power. 

Start next year with

Dahlin Samuelsson

Power Orlov

New D  Lyubuskin

New D who is better than Stillman (I'd like another Vet here)

If we can't trade Stillman, waive him and let him play in Rochester.  His 1.35 cap hit would be reduced to 250K and I doubt he'd get claimed. 

 

You are going to be in a state of apoplexy next season when Stillman and Joki are introduced on the PA system in the first home game as members of the 23-24 Sabres. I agree with you that the GM needs to add to the unit. Based on the GM's pursuit of Chycrun, I'm confident that a 4/5 defenseman or maybe even two will be added to the roster. 

I don't understand your constant haranguing about Joki. It's become an obsession with you. He is a 4/5 defenseman. If a better player is added, then he could be dropped to the third pairing. You may have a jaundiced view of him but his coach certainly doesn't have that same evaluation of him. It's the opposite. He repeatedly states that he believes that this young player will get even better. 

You bring up an interesting issue regarding Lyubushkin. There was maybe a sequence of half dozen games where I thought he was one of our better players on that unit. Other than that, he was generally average to sometimes solid. I got the impression that he was hurt for most of the season. If he can be a consistent third or even fourth pairing player, it would be such a bonus. 

[JohnC]

9 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

Think you are too early to judge Stillman in the Sabres system.  He probably ends up as the 6th or 7th Dman when they start the season 

Are you aware that you are agitating @GASabresIUFANby suggesting that Stillman will be on the roster next season. He's already in a frenzied state over that roster spot. He needs to be tranquilized, not poked at. 😄

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

He is a 4/5 defenseman.

He isn't.  At best he's a bottom pair D.  At best.  The 20 minutes a night we give him are out of necessity not because he's good.  He isn't physical.  He's not great at blocking shots.  He gives the puck away at twice the rate he takes the puck away.  All he is a placeholder until something better comes around.  Our D group's biggest issues are the lack of ability to clear the net, poor PK play and not being hard enough to play against.  Joki's numbers don't really help in these areas.   He also isn't a dynamic or even good playmaker to launch the offense from like a Montour.  

For a team that has Dahlin and Power and needs more physical play in other areas where does he fit?  He doesn't.  I think Joki is a fine NHL D on the right team, but his skill set and the Sabres' needs are no longer a match.  In many ways he's the D version of VO and UPL.  Sometimes you have to move on.

[GASabresIUFAN]

8 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Are you aware that you are agitating @GASabresIUFANby suggesting that Stillman will be on the roster next season. He's already in a frenzied state over that roster spot. He needs to be tranquilized, not poked at. 😄

I fully acknowledge and have stated many times that I expect Stillman on the roster next season.  He is the D version of Bjork.  KA acquired him with term and by golly he's going to play for us whether that's good or bad.  As long as he's not in the starting 6 and we stay healthy then that's fine.  It's when he plays for us that the problems start.

The guy has appeared in 5 NHL seasons for 4 different teams and has never been a full-time player.  Why does anyone expect that to change now?  If we had any D in the pipeline near ready for NHL duty, there wouldn't be a single person on this site clamoring to play Stillman.  

Edited April 26, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

He isn't.  At best he's a bottom pair D.  At best.  The 20 minutes a night we give him are out of necessity not because he's good.  He isn't physical.  He's not great at blocking shots.  He gives the puck away at twice the rate he takes the puck away.  All he is a placeholder until something better comes around.  Our D group's biggest issues are the lack of ability to clear the net, poor PK play and not being hard enough to play against.  Joki's numbers don't really help in these areas.   He also isn't a dynamic or even good playmaker to launch the offense from like a Montour.  

For a team that has Dahlin and Power and needs more physical play in other areas where does he fit?  He doesn't.  I think Joki is a fine NHL D on the right team, but his skill set and the Sabres' needs are no longer a match.  In many ways he's the D version of VO and UPL.  Sometimes you have to move on.

I'm not going to exaggerate his talents. But we fundamentally disagree on the caliber of player he is. He may not have the muscular traits that you desire but he is a better complementary defenseman than you make out to be.  I also believe that the coach has a different and more positive view of him. I consider him to be a 4/5 player leaning more into the 5 spot. We simply disagree on this issue. That's okay. 

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I fully acknowledge and have stated many times that I expect Stillman on the roster next season.  He is the D version of Bjork.  KA acquired him with term and by golly he's going to play for us whether that's good or bad.  As long as he's not in the starting 6 and we stay healthy then that's fine.  It's when he plays for us that the problems start.

The guy has appeared in 5 NHL seasons for 4 different teams and has never been a full-time player.  Why does anyone expect that to change now?  If we had any D in the pipeline near ready for NHL duty, there wouldn't be a single person on this site clamoring to play Stillman.  

Very few people, if any, have been clamoring for him to be on our third pairing or even on the roster. He's a fourth pairing and depth player. I just don't understand your fixation on him and expenditure of energy on such a fringe player. I have no problem having him on the roster serving that role. If and when the Sabres add players to the unit, he will get bumped out of the lineup. (As you noted.) There's unanimity on this site that more talent needs to be added to the unit. We all are in agreement on that issue. That's where we are at. 

[Flashsabre]

 

[French Collection]

Savoie with an assist as the Ice win game 1 vs Saskatoon in their third round series.

Komarov’s Quebec Remparts beat Nadeau’s Gatineau Olympiques 5-2 in game one. No points for either player.

Edited April 29, 2023 by French Collection

[triumph_communes]

On 4/25/2023 at 9:41 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

Do yourself a favor and look at their analytics.  These are all mediocre to bad hockey players.  Joki, Stillman, Clague, and Bryson are not championship-caliber hockey players.  

When a GM makes a mistake, like Stillman, who is on a cheap contract, he can move on which is what KA should do.  Sending him down keeps him in the organization for emergency use.  Stillman is not a 5/6.  If a team as bad defensively as Buffalo was last year is only willing to play him 12 minutes a night, that tells you he really isn't good enough to be a 3rd pairing player.  He was being used because the other options were worse.  

There is no reason, especially with our cap room for KA to make us suffer through another season with 50% of the D group that stinks.  It's also more important than ever to upgrade the D group.  We are a playoff-caliber team and need better D.  We also need a stronger D group to protect the young goaltenders.  We also need guys under contract with term because we have no near-ready prospects in the pipeline. (This is a prospect thread after all.)

Analytics say nothing about systems and coaching. Stillman was misused by bad coaching. He is perfectly serviceable and a big part of their late season turnaround. Nobody said he was top4 and it’s quite clear that’s the top of KAs list this off season. There is no ‘just be patient and wait’ on defense like there was in goal that justified his inaction. 

Edited April 29, 2023 by triumph_communes