Sabres Prospects 2022-2023

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Buffalonill said:

You could be right but if im him buffalo is not on my list i would go out west or go home to Minnesota.

 I have no ties with Buffalo .

Thats just my perspective

The reason why I lean toward my position is that when he reviews what blueline players the Sabres have on the roster and within the system, there is no question that he can have an opportunity to play here sooner than with any other team. Like you, I'm speculating. 

[DarthEbriate]

What did Nadeau do to the old captain, eat him?

[Flashsabre]

13 minutes left in the 2nd and the ICE are up 6-0.

Yes, Savoie has gotten his 2 points for the night already, 1g, 1a

[Derrico]

15 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

13 minutes left in the 2nd and the ICE are up 6-0.

Yes, Savoie has gotten his 2 points for the night already, 1g, 1a

Another game, another 2 point performance from Savoie.  

Going to be real interesting what happens next year.  Case might be made that his development would benefit more from 4th line Krebs treatment in Buffalo than back in WHL again. 

[LGR4GM]

15 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

13 minutes left in the 2nd and the ICE are up 6-0.

Yes, Savoie has gotten his 2 points for the night already, 1g, 1a

 

28 minutes ago, Derrico said:

Another game, another 2 point performance from Savoie.  

Going to be real interesting what happens next year.  Case might be made that his development would benefit more from 4th line Krebs treatment in Buffalo than back in WHL again. 

Savoie has gotten 2 points in 5 of the last 10 games. He's also had 2 games where he has no points in that stretch. He's currently pacing just below his DY production. He has 13 points in the last 10 games. 

[tom webster]

51 minutes ago, Derrico said:

Another game, another 2 point performance from Savoie.  

Going to be real interesting what happens next year.  Case might be made that his development would benefit more from 4th line Krebs treatment in Buffalo than back in WHL again. 

The issue next year should be if Buffalo is best served by having the rookie get regular playing time. Depending on injuries and possible trades or other call ups, he might be the 13th or 14th forward. I think he might still be best served by sticking with the team but I doubt the team will burn a year of his contract unless he earns regular ice time.

[French Collection]

7 minutes ago, tom webster said:

The issue next year should be if Buffalo is best served by having the rookie get regular playing time. Depending on injuries and possible trades or other call ups, he might be the 13th or 14th forward. I think he might still be best served by sticking with the team but I doubt the team will burn a year of his contract unless he earns regular ice time.

I think he gets 9 games and then there will be a tough decision to make. He can make it easy by having a great start or he can get lucky with some injuries letting him get more games.

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, Derrico said:

Another game, another 2 point performance from Savoie.  

Going to be real interesting what happens next year.  Case might be made that his development would benefit more from 4th line Krebs treatment in Buffalo than back in WHL again. 

 

10 minutes ago, tom webster said:

The issue next year should be if Buffalo is best served by having the rookie get regular playing time. Depending on injuries and possible trades or other call ups, he might be the 13th or 14th forward. I think he might still be best served by sticking with the team but I doubt the team will burn a year of his contract unless he earns regular ice time.

 

1 minute ago, French Collection said:

I think he gets 9 games and then there will be a tough decision to make. He can make it easy by having a great start or he can get lucky with some injuries letting him get more games.

This stupid rule protects the CHL at the expense of NHL teams toward the bottom of the standings, at the expense of the AHL, and at the expense of the players drafted towards the top.  At least amend it so it only applies to the player's first season after the draft.

[French Collection]

2 minutes ago, Eleven said:

 

 

This stupid rule protects the CHL at the expense of NHL teams toward the bottom of the standings, at the expense of the AHL, and at the expense of the players drafted towards the top.  At least amend it so it only applies to the player's first season after the draft.

I was a CHL season ticket holder for many years and it’s great to have U20 talent around.

Your idea of draft +1 makes sense if the kid has outgrown junior hockey. Maybe each NHL team gets 1 annual exemption.

[Eleven]

7 minutes ago, French Collection said:

I was a CHL season ticket holder for many years and it’s great to have U20 talent around.

Your idea of draft +1 makes sense if the kid has outgrown junior hockey. Maybe each NHL team gets 1 annual exemption.

I don't understand why it's the NHL's job to protect the CHL at all, but I could deal with your proposal as a step in the right direction.

[Flashsabre]

54 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

Savoie has gotten 2 points in 5 of the last 10 games. He's also had 2 games where he has no points in that stretch. He's currently pacing just below his DY production. He has 13 points in the last 10 games. 

Beyond just stat watching. Savoie’s deployment has been much different this season. He is playing much more on the PK and less time on the PP as they spread it out more with talent. His PP points are down compared to last year.

With the talent the ICE have the offence is spread out. No one racks up 4 points a night like a Bedard. Lots of guys end up with 1 or 2 points.

So even if Savoie’s stats are similar his game is evolving. One thing that isn’t mentioned with him is his strength at the dot. I think that is what keeps him in the middle when he moves up to pro. I would project him and Östlund A’s centres while Kulich slides to the wing.

[Flashsabre]

8 minutes ago, Eleven said:

I don't understand why it's the NHL's job to protect the CHL at all, but I could deal with your proposal as a step in the right direction.

Or move the draft to 19 years old and a drafted kid can play wherever they want. I know it won’t happen but it would help the CHL.

One thing I didn’t know until I heard a recent interview with him is that Dahlin quit school at age 16 to turn pro in Sweden. He said over there it is like how the pro system worked here in the 60s. You get recruited at a young age to an organization and then you play for that system’s teams all the way up until you make the pro team.

[dudacek]

Interesting to look at what the Sabres picks have done compared to the other 1st-round forwards taken last year:

• Cooley   30 15/28/43 +27 (NCAA)
• Wright   7 6/8/14 +2 (OHL)
• Gauthier   25 14/13/27 -3 (NCAA)
• Kasper   44 8/13/21 +9 (SWE Div.1)
• Savoie   46 24/39/63 +37 (WHL)
• Geekie   48 24/27/51 +32 (WHL)
• Nazar   3 1/0/1 +3 (NCAA)
• McGroarty   29 10/14/24 +1 (NCAA)
• Lekkerimaki   29 3/6/9 -4 (SWE Div.2)
• Östlund   33 8/17/25 +9 (SWE Div.2)
• Kemmel   38 11/2/13 -17 (FIN Div.1)
• Ohgren   30 10/7/17 +15 (SWE Div.2)
• Gaucher   38 20/21/41 +35 (QHL)
• Snuggerud   31 19/23/42 +26 (NCAA)
• Mesar   36 16/20/36 -4 (OHL)
• Bystedt   37 5/11/16 +4 (SWE Div.1)
• Kulich   37 11/15/26 -4 (AHL)
• Lambert   10 8/8/16 +9 (WHL)
• Howard   27 4/6/10 -14 (NCAA)

Looks to me like Snuggerud is the guy that has probably opened the most eyes, but after that Kulich and Östlund might be the next 2 in terms of improving their stock.

Kulich has played against the toughest competition. Mesar (0 points, 1 game) Lambert (3 in 14) and Wright (4 in 5) are the only ones besides Kulich to spend time in the AHL. His numbers are outright better than what Kasper and Bystedt have done in the next-highest league. They are also roughly in line with what Chytil and Puljujarvi did as AHL 18-year-olds, ahead of Fiala and Byfield and just behind William Nylander. Among 18-year-olds who played roughly a half-season or more, his points/per game is fifth overall since 2000.

Östlund is top 25 overall in points/game in the Allsvensken, 1st among U22 players at age 18. He is now clearly a step above the Euros who were rated around him (Lambert, Lekkerimaki, Ohgren, Kemmel). Among 18-year-olds who played roughly a half-season or more, his points/per game is sixth overall in the Allsvensken since 2000, behind Elias Pettersson, Filip Forsberg, William Karlsson, everybody's favourite Patrik Berglund, and just behind William Nylander.

Savoie has not taken a leap but appears to be hanging on to the status he had on draft day: the draft's 3rd-best offence generator, after Wright and Cooley. I know it's a product of playing on a stacked junior team, but that +37 in 46 games still makes me smile.

Based almost entirely on this season, my draft might look something like this today:

• Cooley
• Wright
• Kasper Savoie, Snuggerud
• Östlund, Kulich, Nazar, Slavkovsky, Gauthier
• Bystedt, McGroarty, Ohgren
• Gaucher, Geekie, Kemmel Lekkerimaki
• Mesar, Lambert
• Howard

I don't think it's a stretch to say there is a good chance we nabbed 3 of the year's top 10 forwards.

Edited February 18, 2023 by dudacek

[French Collection]

33 minutes ago, Eleven said:

I don't understand why it's the NHL's job to protect the CHL at all, but I could deal with your proposal as a step in the right direction.

I get it when an elite first rounder makes the NHL and plays decent minutes. If a kid barely plays he may be better dominating in the CHL. Getting pushed around in the AHL may not be a great option for 18-19 year olds.

When a kid has dominated play at the CHL, he’s ready to move on.

[French Collection]

26 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Or move the draft to 19 years old and a drafted kid can play wherever they want. I know it won’t happen but it would help the CHL.

One thing I didn’t know until I heard a recent interview with him is that Dahlin quit school at age 16 to turn pro in Sweden. He said over there it is like how the pro system worked here in the 60s. You get recruited at a young age to an organization and then you play for that system’s teams all the way up until you make the pro team.

A 19 year old draft would be better for everyone. There would need to be a mechanism for special players to option at 18 if they are a sure thing to make the NHL.

Teams would get another year of scouting and make more informed choices. Late bloomers would have a better chance to get selected. Players would be better developed to turn pro post draft. 

I think it was Ken Linseman who sued the NHL because they were preventing him from earning a living at 19, when the draft was for 20 year olds

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, French Collection said:

I get it when an elite first rounder makes the NHL and plays decent minutes. If a kid barely plays he may be better dominating in the CHL. Getting pushed around in the AHL may not be a great option for 18-19 year olds.

When a kid has dominated play at the CHL, he’s ready to move on.

Kulich and JJP were just fine under 20 in the A.  DG and KA have said there is a great deal of value having guys even practicing with the pros.   I don’t think limited PT in the NHL is a negative.  I worry that some kids who too easily dominate in the CHL develop bad habits.  

The NHL does have a vested interest in protecting the CHL.  A large % of NHL players develop in the CHL and keeping those 3 leagues vibrant helps that development.   Keeping star players there post draft helps keep those league vibrant.  Still there are individual situations where keeping someone like a Savoie in a lesgue he’s to good for is probably not in his best interest. 

@Eleven’s suggestion is a good one to balance those competing interests.  

[dudacek]

And just for fun, a look at the top drafted U20 players in the KHL, plus this year's top prospect:

• 1. Nikita Grebyonkin (Toronto) 49   9/16/25 +5
• 7. Matvei Michkov (undrafted) 26   7/6/13 -5
• 8. Viktor Neuchev (Buffalo) 54 4/8/12 +2
• 9. Danila Yurov (Minnesota) 55 5/6/11 +5
• 10. Prokhor Poltapov (Buffalo) 51 5/5/10 +4
• 12. Nikita Yevseyev (Edmonton) 47 5/2/7 +8
• 15. Ivan Miroshnichenko (Washington) 22 3/1/4 0
• 16. Fyodor Svechkov (Nashville) 27 2/2/4 -7
• 17. Nikita V. Novikov (Buffalo) 59 2/2/4 -1

Other guys in the top 17 were undrafted.

[Taro T]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

And just for fun, a look at the top drafted U20 players in the KHL, plus this year's top prospect:

• 1. Nikita Grebyonkin (Toronto) 49   9/16/25 +5
• 7. Matvei Michkov (undrafted) 26   7/6/13 -5
• 8. Viktor Neuchev (Buffalo) 54 4/8/12 +2
• 9. Danila Yurov (Minnesota) 55 5/6/11 +5
• 10. Prokhor Poltapov (Buffalo) 51 5/5/10 +4
• 12. Nikita Yevseyev (Edmonton) 47 5/2/7 +8
• 15. Ivan Miroshnichenko (Washington) 22 3/1/4 0
• 16. Fyodor Svechkov (Nashville) 27 2/2/4 -7
• 17. Nikita V. Novikov (Buffalo) 59 2/2/4 -1

Other guys in the top 17 were undrafted.

Shows how tough it is for kids in that league, you don't even get through the top 10 kids before you're down to <0.2 PPG.  That's under 16 points through 80 games.

[dudacek]

7 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Shows how tough it is for kids in that league, you don't even get through the top 10 kids before you're down to <0.2 PPG.  That's under 16 points through 80 games.

Michkov's numbers are just crazy in context. He's 17 and pretty much doubling the output of the best 20-year-olds in a league that barely uses 20-year-olds.

Edited February 18, 2023 by dudacek

[French Collection]

44 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Interesting to look at what the Sabres picks have done compared to the other 1st-round forwards taken last year:

• Cooley   30 15/28/43 +27 (NCAA)
• Wright   7 6/8/14 +2 (OHL)
• Gauthier   25 14/13/27 -3 (NCAA)
• Kasper   44 8/13/21 +9 (SWE Div.1)
• Savoie   46 24/39/63 +37 (WHL)
• Geekie   48 24/27/51 +32 (WHL)
• Nazar   3 1/0/1 +3 (NCAA)
• McGroarty   29 10/14/24 +1 (NCAA)
• Lekkerimaki   29 3/6/9 -4 (SWE Div.2)
• Östlund   33 8/17/25 +9 (SWE Div.2)
• Kemmel   38 11/2/13 -17 (FIN Div.1)
• Ohgren   30 10/7/17 +15 (SWE Div.2)
• Gaucher   38 20/21/41 +35 (QHL)
• Snuggerud   31 19/23/42 +26 (NCAA)
• Mesar   36 16/20/36 -4 (OHL)
• Bystedt   37 5/11/16 +4 (SWE Div.1)
• Kulich   37 11/15/26 -4 (AHL)
• Lambert   10 8/8/16 +9 (WHL)
• Howard   27 4/6/10 -14 (NCAA)

Looks to me like Snuggerud is the guy that has probably opened the most eyes, but after that Kulich and Östlund might be the next 2 in terms of improving their stock.

Kulich has played against the toughest competition. Mesar (0 points, 1 game) Lambert (3 in 14) and Wright (4 in 5) are the only ones besides Kulich to spend time in the AHL. His numbers are outright better than what Kasper and Bystedt have done in the next-highest league. They are also roughly in line with what Chytil and Puljujarvi did as AHL 18-year-olds, ahead of Fiala and Byfield and just behind William Nylander. Among 18-year-olds who played roughly a half-season or more, his points/per game is fifth overall since 2000.

Östlund is top 25 overall in points/game in the Allsvensken, 1st among U22 players at age 18. He is now clearly a step above the Euros who were rated around him (Lambert, Lekkerimaki, Ohgren, Kemmel). Among 18-year-olds who played roughly a half-season or more, his points/per game is sixth overall in the Allsvensken since 2000, behind Elias Pettersson, Filip Forsberg, William Karlsson, everybody's favourite Patrik Berglund, and just behind William Nylander.

Savoie has not taken a leap but appears to be hanging on to the status he had on draft day: the draft's 3rd-best offence generator, after Wright and Cooley. I know it's a product of playing on a stacked junior team, but that +37 in 46 games still makes me smile.

Based almost entirely on this season, my draft might look something like this today:

• Cooley
• Wright
• Kasper Savoie, Snuggerud
• Östlund, Kulich, Nazar, Slavkovsky
• Bystedt, McGroarty, Ohgren
• Gaucher, Geekie, Kemmel Lekkerimaki
• Mesar, Lambert
• Howard

I don't think it's a stretch to say there is a good chance we nabbed 3 of the year's top 10 forwards.

Buffalo has definitely drafted better.

They need to find some D prospects now. Keep drafting F too but get some Dmen in the pipeline.

I liked Nazar at the draft, his injury cost him this season. It will be interesting how he plays next year.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Flashsabre said:

With the talent the ICE have the offence is spread out. No one racks up 4 points a night like a Bedard. Lots of guys end up with 1 or 2 points.

So even if Savoie’s stats are similar his game is evolving. One thing that isn’t mentioned with him is his strength at the dot. I think that is what keeps him in the middle when he moves up to pro. I would project him and Östlund A’s centres while Kulich slides to the wing.

That applies to the entire CHL.

The next closest player in the whl is Stankoven, 21pts behind and Savoies teammate Benson 22pts behind Bedard. Savoie is 37pts behind Bedard. 

Edited February 18, 2023 by LGR4GM

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, French Collection said:

I get it when an elite first rounder makes the NHL and plays decent minutes. If a kid barely plays he may be better dominating in the CHL. Getting pushed around in the AHL may not be a great option for 18-19 year olds.

When a kid has dominated play at the CHL, he’s ready to move on.

And that's for the NHL team to decide as soon as he's drafted, IMO.

[Derrico]

2 hours ago, tom webster said:

The issue next year should be if Buffalo is best served by having the rookie get regular playing time. Depending on injuries and possible trades or other call ups, he might be the 13th or 14th forward. I think he might still be best served by sticking with the team but I doubt the team will burn a year of his contract unless he earns regular ice time.

I agree with all of this except the last half of the last sentence.  
I would rather have to pay Savoie a year earlier and have him develop better/quicker than have him go back down and not burn a year.  I’m not saying this is the best path but I want the Sabres to put him in the best place to develop and not worry too much about when his elc kicks in. 

[kas23]

There has to come a point a player gets bored with the lower level of competition of a league and begins playing down to such competition. I don’t want that happening to Savoie. 

[Taro T]

9 minutes ago, Derrico said:

I agree with all of this except the last half of the last sentence.  
I would rather have to pay Savoie a year earlier and have him develop better/quicker than have him go back down and not burn a year.  I’m not saying this is the best path but I want the Sabres to put him in the best place to develop and not worry too much about when his elc kicks in. 

Does anybody know for certain that the Sabres would in fact burn up a year of Savoie's ELC if he stayed on the roster for the entire season but played 9 or fewer games?

The CBA specifies that a contract can't slide if the player plays in a 10th NHL game.  But it doesn't specifically address a time limit for just being on the roster.  Not sure if it is addressed in the agreement between the NHL & CHL (have never seen that document).

Of course, if the Sabres did do that, he'd get an accrued season and would be eligible for FA a year earlier than had he played 10 games then been sent back to junior.   So, they wouldn't actually do that, but it seems they theoretically could.  Which would make this the exact opposite of a college player playing a handful of games burning a year of their ELC but not getting credit for an accrued NHL season.