Sabres Prospects 2022-2023

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

I brought up Savoie because you made the comparison of Bloom having an advantage over him in terms of age, experience and playing lesser competition. Wasn't my comp; it was yours 😊. Savoie has played in a comparable league (WHL) the past two years just as Bloom has. So there is no difference between the two in terms of either leagues or experience in those leagues. 

The only measurable difference is one is a few months older in age and as a result became draft eligible a year earlier by just making the cut off, where as the other didn't. If you want to say that's a big deal, fine. I don't really think that is the case. 

I noted also that I wasn't arguing a comp in terms of prospective talent. Simply that the other comparisons made (level of competition; experience against comparable competition; and age) are a virtual wash and therefore meaningless (though Bloom's top level competition is actually more mature than Savoie's, so there is that).  

 

But I was correct on age, I was correct on experience, and my comp about lesser competitor was about Bloom’s competition being lesser relative to *Bloom’s abilities* not Savoie.

So, smiley face emoji? 

[Thorner]

My point, for the 3rd time while my patience remains in tact, is that *Josh Bloom* is facing competition he has risen beyond. 

[FrenchConnection44]

5 minutes ago, Thorny said:

There’s a poster on here who comes at me every time I mention Bloom as a prospect, can’t remember if that’s you or not but I’ve always got the impression it was some sort of relation. 

Let me be clear: I like Bloom as a prospect. Every system needs guys like that - he’s done nothing since being drafted to make me question the pick, or think he hasn’t performed up to the level you’d want, in correspondence to where he was picked, to think he’s off the track he needs to be, to carve out the role in the NHL he could reasonably achieve. 

My point is merely that he isn’t the type of prospect, as he currently stands, that is elevating our pool beyond the other teams of the league. At least, he’s not one of our x-factors at this time - his good performance this year in junior keeps him on track for reasonable expectations, where many drafted around where he was have already fallen off by now. But his production hasn’t exceeded expectations to the tune of him taking up rank alongside the Savoies and the Kulich’s of the pool. Lots of teams have guys in the CHL ranks doing what Bloom is doing. If he represents a prospect elevating our pool beyond others, it’s in the sense that we have have a better depth guy than they have.

Can he just smash expectations and become an all-star? Of course. That’s what I hope happens. It’s just not what the data is suggesting at this time. 

- - -

For the record, Savoie has played 35 CHL games since being drafted. Bloom has played 111. Stuff like that matters.

I mentioned Bloom for the first time in that post (other than a post or two of highlights as I have with Savoie and others). 

For the record: You came at me! lol. 

Second, who played where prior to being drafted isn't a factor. You're arguing apples to oranges. If two kids of comparable age played on the same team and one was drafted at age 16, and the other at age 18 ... none of that would make a difference in terms of their calibre of competition. 

[Thorner]

6 minutes ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

I mentioned Bloom for the first time in that post (other than a post or two of highlights as I have with Savoie and others). 

For the record: You came at me! lol. 

Second, who played where prior to being drafted isn't a factor. You're arguing apples to oranges. If two kids of comparable age played on the same team and one was drafted at age 16, and the other at age 18 ... none of that would make a difference in terms of their calibre of competition. 

Your are stuck on a point of contention I’m not contending 

- - -

Savoie isn’t better than Bloom because he’s faced better competition. I’ve never argued that lol. He’s better cause he’s better. 1.38 points per game last 2 seasons in junior vs Bloom’s 0.97 points per game the last 2 season in junior. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Thorny

[FrenchConnection44]

11 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Your are stuck on a point of contention I’m not contending 

- - -

Savoie isn’t better than Bloom because he’s faced better competition. I’ve never argued that lol. He’s better cause he’s better. 1.38 points per game last 2 seasons in junior vs Bloom’s 0.97 points per game the last 2 season in junior. 

But you just made the comparison about who played more games in the OHL "since being drafted" did you not? You're not making sense here. 

Prior to or after being drafted doesn't really matter. The only point of contention of any validity is one is 19 1/2; the other is 19.

But you're also ignoring Bloom's experienced competition (equal to himself in his league and which is comparable to or more mature than Savoie at the top). and also that Bloom couldn't play at all in 2020-21. Whereas, Savoie, because he was in the US, was able to play competitive hockey that year.

If you look at who they've played against the past two seasons - it's virtually identical in terms of games and leagues. 

All this goes back to the original point of contention - that you raised, not me - that Bloom had some sort of advantage in playing "against a bunch of kids you are older than in a league you are too good for" in comparison to Savoie. That simply is not so. 

Nor is the discussion about better prospects. Clearly Savoie is the better offensive prospect and talent at this stage. But Bloom is not that far down the rung. And scoring is not the be all end all. Defensive play is a vital factor (which is the main reason we lose games these days). So too the calibre of teammates (both for assists and being set up). Savoie has had a much better surrounding caste than Bloom has much of the past two seasons. 

[Thorner]

17 minutes ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

But you just made the comparison about who played more games in the OHL "since being drafted" did you not? You're not making sense here. 

Prior to or after being drafted doesn't really matter. The only point of contention of any validity is one is 19 1/2; the other is 19.

But you're also ignoring Bloom's experienced competition (equal to himself in his league and which is comparable to or more mature than Savoie at the top). and also that Bloom couldn't play at all in 2020-21. Whereas, Savoie, because he was in the US, was able to play competitive hockey that year.

If you look at who they've played against the past two seasons - it's virtually identical in terms of games and leagues. 

All this goes back to the original point of contention - that you raised, not me - that Bloom had some sort of advantage in playing "against a bunch of kids you are older than in a league you are too good for" in comparison to Savoie. That simply is not so. 

Nor is the discussion about better prospects. Clearly Savoie is the better offensive prospect and talent at this stage. But Bloom is not that far down the rung. And scoring is not the be all end all. Defensive play is a vital factor (which is the main reason we lose games these days). So too the calibre of teammates (both for assists and being set up). Savoie has had a much better surrounding caste than Bloom has much of the past two seasons. 

Yes my dude because you took the conversation down that road. I’m always willing to engage. Savoie is indeed the superior prospect imo who is putting up significantly better numbers with both less experience and doing so at half a year younger. But truly, making some sort of detailed Savoie/Bloom comparison wasn’t my original intention. Can you accept that in good faith? I truly assumed everyone just considered Savoie on another level to him. If you do, or don’t, have at it: the beauty of opinions. 

As for the second bold, are you doing some sort of bit, here? Can we get a neutral arbitrator in here, please? Haha (“haha”, but like, I’m not joking). You must be willfully ignoring what I’m writing because I’ve gone out of my way to state no fewer than 4 times now, that I wasn’t saying it’s a case of Bloom’s competition being weak relative to Savoie. It’s weak relative to Bloom’s status as a prospective NHLer. 

I’m glad to hear you see Bloom as much closer to the Savoie tier than I do. I see a lot of Savoie due to where I live but less of Bloom, just the stats. I could easily be way off base, a frequent occurrence, and Bloom turns out to be the superior NHL player down the road.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Thorny

[French Collection]

20 hours ago, Thorny said:

Yes my dude because you took the conversation down that road. I’m always willing to engage. Savoie is indeed the superior prospect imo who is putting up significantly better numbers with both less experience and doing so at half a year younger. But truly, making some sort of detailed Savoie/Bloom comparison wasn’t my original intention. Can you accept that in good faith? I truly assumed everyone just considered Savoie on another level to him. If you do, or don’t, have at it: the beauty of opinions. 

As for the second bold, are you doing some sort of bit, here? Can we get a neutral arbitrator in here, please? Haha (“haha”, but like, I’m not joking). You must be willfully ignoring what I’m writing because I’ve gone out of my way to state no fewer than 4 times now, that I wasn’t saying it’s a case of Bloom’s competition being weak relative to Savoie. It’s weak relative to Bloom’s status as a prospective NHLer. 

I’m glad to hear you see Bloom as much closer to the Savoie tier than I do. I see a lot of Savoie due to where I live but less of Bloom, just the stats. I could easily be way off base, a frequent occurrence, and Bloom turns out to be the superior NHL player down the road.

Savoie was a first rounder for a reason. He has great offensive talent and can take over a game. He also plays centre, a premium position. He may become a winger at the next level but starting out as a potential C is a good thing. I don’t see a lot him except for highlights but his game is exciting and ramping up from the start of the season. He may have had a slower start due to the shoulder issue that kept him out until fall.

I see Bloom quite a bit and like his game. In Saginaw he was one of their best forwards and had to play at a high level for them to win. In North Bay he doesn’t need to drive his line, just be a solid top 6 winger, for the team to succeed.

Bloom is not a prospect with the same expectations as Savoie, mainly due to draft status and offensive numbers. They may end up as linemates down the road because of the talent and depth in Buffalo. Bloom would have to work on his game to become an effective bottom six winger, like a Dan Paille. Savoie may have top six talent but have to be the driver of a bottom 6 line.

Development is not linear so it’s tough to predict for these young guys. At least Bloom can be in Rochester next year.

 

[kas23]

Don’t forget that Bloom didn’t play any hockey during the 20-21, the season before he was drafted. Had he played, and progressed as he has, he very well couldn’t been drafted much higher. Savoie did play hockey during the 20-21 season. 

[French Collection]

18 minutes ago, kas23 said:

Don’t forget that Bloom didn’t play any hockey during the 20-21, the season before he was drafted. Had he played, and progressed as he has, he very well couldn’t been drafted much higher. Savoie did play hockey during the 20-21 season. 

For sure that did not help his development.

He doesn’t drive play though, he is a complimentary player who can do a lot of things well. His game makes me think of Jost. He’ll be given lots of time to develop. Like I said in a previous post, he could be a solid bottom six player, like a Dan Paille.

Savoie’s ceiling is Brayden Point. Is his floor Kyle Wellwood?

 

[LGR4GM]

 

[Thorner]

32 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

My second favourite prospect in system after Savoie 

[Dr. Who]

Just now, Thorny said:

My second favourite prospect in system after Savoie 

Return on the Eichel trade looks better every day.

[Flashsabre]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

My second favourite prospect in system after Savoie 

Funny, my second favourite prospect after Savoie is Kulich. Guess that first round was alright😀

Edited January 28, 2023 by Flashsabre

[Thorner]

52 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Return on the Eichel trade looks better every day.

Ya in a manner of speaking.

I try to view trades through the prism of the evaluations at the time of the deal. Not saying necessarily as much where the NHL talent in the deal is concerned, as that’s more plausibly predictable going forward re: a GM being like “see, I knew that would happen!”. But more so for draft picks - if a team trades a 7th round pick and the pick goes on to become a 40 goal scoring Olofsson, just as an example, I don’t think it makes the trade better for the acquiring team in hindsight or worse for the dealing team: the dealing team traded in actuality let’s call it the “general expectations associated with a 7th overall pick”. 

That is to say, personally I view the deal as still inclusive of the value we generally attribute to a 2nd round pick (Edit: whoops, 1st rounder) in a trade, regardless of what Östlund becomes. 

But 2 things of relevance: 

1 the deal looks pretty darn good already, thank-you-very-much. And, 

2 It’s not like Östlund becoming really good wouldn’t still reflect great on the GM and his team: it just reflects well on the drafting side of talent evaluation 

- - - 

Maybe the distinctions I draw are all semantics to you and if so, I apologize 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Thorny

[Thorner]

7 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Funny, my second favourite prospect after Savoie is Kulich. Guess that first round was all right😀

Just wait until an NHL team short comes calling for one of our excess centres, the most important position in hockey. If Savoie and Kulich map out and we are left with Thompson/Cozens/Krebs/Savoie/Kulich/Jost down the middle... talk about working from a position of strength 

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Just wait until an NHL team short comes calling for one of our excess centres, the most important position in hockey. If Savoie and Kulich map out and we are left with Thompson/Cozens/Krebs/Savoie/Kulich/Jost down the middle... talk about working from a position of strength 

Marcus Johansson was our 2C the year Jack had 78 in 68 before the covid shutdown. 
 

Marcus Johansson might be ranked 7th out of 7 on that list once Savoie and Kulich are being counted on as NHL players. Ya, a C we might not have room for might be better than the guy we had in the second most important F position 3 years ago. 

Botterill’s neglect of the C ice position was nothing short of earth-shatteringly bad GMing 

a farce 

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

 

He's gonna look good in San Jose 

 

Ducks and runs for cover 

[LGR4GM]

8 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

He's gonna look good in San Jose 

Ducks and runs for cover 

[Buffalonill]

Adams  Isn't dumb None of the prospects will be traded .

The only person i can see going is casey.

 

[Contempt]

15 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

The only person i can see going is casey.

But where will the boys gather to play 'Chel and COD? What will become of his couch?

This team stinks at home and is good on the road. There is something different at home that's causing an issue. Is it the couch? Is it g/f drama? Is is Chippewa St ? Idk, but there's something.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Contempt

[bob_sauve28]

 

[Richard Noggin]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

 

Gawt-damm that's some snipin'

[Richard Noggin]

3 hours ago, Brawndo said:

He's gonna look good in San Jose 

 

**Ducks and runs for cover**

Ya gotta add those asterisks to indicate behavior/tone rather than commentary

[Norcal]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

 

Nizzin

[LGR4GM]

More Östlund, he's #45