THE 2022 FINAL: COLORADO AGAINST TAMPA

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

That is what concerns me about the way our kids are being handled.  Not afraid to make mistakes sounds good and all, but the guys driven to win big have a different mindset. Hold high standards and demand change when they aren’t met.

13 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Which is where having someone other than Okposo as captain sooner rather than later may be a good thing.  Haven't been in the room, but Okposo seems way more Pominville than Drury.  And the team really needed a Pomms rather than a Drury this last year.  Drury would've made the room miserable.  Hoping we're ready for them having a Drury soon.  Why not now if he's here?  (Not positive he's here.)

Mmm.

There are several ways to skin a cat. The Drury/MacKinnon model isn’t the only way to lead, to demand and get people’s best.

Pominville was never a leader, was never going to be a leader. He did well being led. No shame in that.

Okposo is definitely a leader of men right now. He may not always have been. I think his health scare may have helped bring it out of him more.

But I do get the kinder/gentler view of Okposo. Still: He’s transitional leadership. I’ll stay tuned to see who emerges as the next captain(s).

[Ogre]

If I were to drink enough, squint my eyes hard enough, that Avalanche could possibly be a fluer de lis. 
 

Je me souveins.

[French Collection]

16 minutes ago, Ogre said:

If I were to drink enough, squint my eyes hard enough, that Avalanche could possibly be a fluer de lis. 
 

Je me souveins.

I used to love watching Nordiques vs Habs, what a rivalry. Dale Hunter fighting brother Mark Hunter is one memory.

The first Avs Cup was pretty much all ex Nords players. Patrick Roy would never have been traded to Quebec though.

Edited June 28, 2022 by French Collection

[dudacek]

16 hours ago, Weave said:

I’ve heard rumblings that sounded very Drury-esque.  
 

He puts alot of pressure even on the rooks.  That is what concerns me about the way our kids are being handled.  Not afraid to make mistakes sounds good and all, but the guys driven to win big have a different mindset. Hold high standards and demand change when they aren’t met.

I think this is the core of concerns about Donnie's shelf life: I think his approach is the right way to develop talent and confidence.

When it comes time to transition from "good" to "contender" will something different be required?

15 hours ago, Taro T said:

Which is where having someone other than Okposo as captain sooner rather than later may be a good thing.  Haven't been in the room, but Okposo seems way more Pominville than Drury.  And the team really needed a Pomms rather than a Drury this last year.  Drury would've made the room miserable.  Hoping we're ready for them having a Drury soon.  Why not now if he's here?  (Not positive he's here.)

I think Okposo has more of stern streak in him than you guys are giving him credit for.

[Taro T]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think this is the core of concerns about Donnie's shelf life: I think his approach is the right way to develop talent and confidence.

When it comes time to transition from "good" to "contender" will something different be required?

I think Okposo has more of stern streak in him than you guys are giving him credit for.

He might, & that is the hope.  Stated flat out without being in the room don't know how he's different in there than in the public.  But showing young kids how to be a pro & unifying a room don't necessarily translate to getting in guys faces nor telling management that Satan is a cancer and he needs to be on the next bus out of town.  (And not saying necessarily he can't be that guy.  Just that it hasn't been demonstrated publicly to be in his wheelhouse.)

[SDS]

39 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think this is the core of concerns about Donnie's shelf life: I think his approach is the right way to develop talent and confidence.

When it comes time to transition from "good" to "contender" will something different be required?

I think Okposo has more of stern streak in him than you guys are giving him credit for.

MacKinnon getting in peoples faces is a good fan story for certain fans, but anecdotes can’t really be relied upon as actual evidence of creating success. 

[Taro T]

13 minutes ago, SDS said:

MacKinnon getting in peoples faces is a good fan story for certain fans, but anecdotes can’t really be relied upon as actual evidence of creating success. 

True.

And as much as Drury's legacy as "Captain Clutch" has been immortalized, he is still the guy that missed the wide open net in the 1st period of game 7 with the game still scoreless.  It was a tough angle, but Tuch buried it from a slightly tougher angle.

[SDS]

10 minutes ago, Taro T said:

True.

And as much as Drury's legacy as "Captain Clutch" has been immortalized, he is still the guy that missed the wide open net in the 1st period of game 7 with the game still scoreless.  It was a tough angle, but Tuch buried it from a slightly tougher angle.

Even a cursory analysis makes the conclusion farcical. If yelling lead to wins, then sports would be filled with people screaming at each other (Setting aside parents yelling at their children). It requires no talent to scream at someone that they’re not playing well enough. It doesn’t even require any specific knowledge. Everyone here in this forum could yell at another person. My daughter could yell at another person.

I long for the day where the mystique of the authoritarian ***** berating slackers to win dies a justified death.

[Wyldnwoody44]

Mackinnon is possibly a bit rough at practice, but my guess is that the yelling works in this case because; he is out there busting his nuts every single minute, and he's a superstar talent that is not only yelling for no reason, he knows why he is doing it and knows that others have more to their game, and in turn elevating theirs.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

MacKinnon is the nicest guy you ever wanna meet, unless it’s on the ice or in training.

 

 

 

[North Buffalo]

Yeh yelling is bs unless used selectively and busting your butt doesnt mean success.  Effective hard work and knowing when to push and when to lay off is important... Mckinnon sometimes tries to do it all to his and his teams detriment... Yet he is so good he can pull it off... plus Avs had so many lines with skill that Tampa couldnt just key on one...

[Porous Five Hole]

The Bolts were very banged up by the end of the road. Point, Kuch, Cirelli, Perry, Paul, Hagel, McDonagh, Bellemare, Cernak…some pretty vital names on that list.

 

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/34161331/brayden-point-quad-tear-tampa-bay-lightning-injuries-final
 

 

[That Aud Smell]

21 hours ago, SDS said:

Even a cursory analysis makes the conclusion farcical. If yelling lead to wins, then sports would be filled with people screaming at each other (Setting aside parents yelling at their children). It requires no talent to scream at someone that they’re not playing well enough. It doesn’t even require any specific knowledge. Everyone here in this forum could yell at another person. My daughter could yell at another person.

I long for the day where the mystique of the authoritarian ***** berating slackers to win dies a justified death.

Well now, wait a second. I don't think the narrative here is that Drury, MacKinnon, and those hockey leaders from a similar mould are yellers, beraters. My takeaway from the Wyshinski (sp) article linked upthread is that MacKinnon is relentlessly intense and demanding - on himself and his teammates. I don't know that he needs to be "yelling" in order to relate to a teammate that it's unacceptable to sleep walk through a passing drill in February. Shoot - he could do that quietly in the player's ear during a rest. Also, he doesn't need to be yelling when he's telling people, flat out, that they can eat sh1t in the offseason if they choose, but, during the season, they will eat the right stuff. Like I said: That is a*sshole and d1ck behaviour, but it has also proven effective.

I've posted here about the stories about Jumbo Joe's style of leadership. Quite different.

Yet again OTOH, did Joe Thornton ever win anything? 😬 

Do we have an OT-ish "what makes a good captain" thread? Maybe it would be a good offseason thought project.

[French Collection]

10 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Well now, wait a second. I don't think the narrative here is that Drury, MacKinnon, and those hockey leaders from a similar mould are yellers, beraters. My takeaway from the Wyshinski (sp) article linked upthread is that MacKinnon is relentlessly intense and demanding - on himself and his teammates. I don't know that he needs to be "yelling" in order to relate to a teammate that it's unacceptable to sleep walk through a passing drill in February. Shoot - he could do that quietly in the player's ear during a rest. Also, he doesn't need to be yelling when he's telling people, flat out, that they can eat sh1t in the offseason if they choose, but, during the season, they will eat the right stuff. Like I said: That is a*sshole and d1ck behaviour, but it has also proven effective.

I've posted here about the stories about Jumbo Joe's style of leadership. Quite different.

Yet again OTOH, did Joe Thornton ever win anything? 😬 

Do we have an OT-ish "what makes a good captain" thread? Maybe it would be a good offseason thought project.

There are many skills that a captain could have, leadership styles are personal. They need to be themselves, but above all they need to lead by example. Whether it is practice, community work, games or meetings, they need to walk the talk.

[SDS]

29 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Well now, wait a second. I don't think the narrative here is that Drury, MacKinnon, and those hockey leaders from a similar mould are yellers, beraters. My takeaway from the Wyshinski (sp) article linked upthread is that MacKinnon is relentlessly intense and demanding - on himself and his teammates. I don't know that he needs to be "yelling" in order to relate to a teammate that it's unacceptable to sleep walk through a passing drill in February. Shoot - he could do that quietly in the player's ear during a rest. Also, he doesn't need to be yelling when he's telling people, flat out, that they can eat sh1t in the offseason if they choose, but, during the season, they will eat the right stuff. Like I said: That is a*sshole and d1ck behaviour, but it has also proven effective.

I've posted here about the stories about Jumbo Joe's style of leadership. Quite different.

Yet again OTOH, did Joe Thornton ever win anything? 😬 

Do we have an OT-ish "what makes a good captain" thread? Maybe it would be a good offseason thought project.

 

I don’t buy for a moment that his screaming helped anything. Where was the success the previous eight years? Did he just start screaming this year? how long has Sidney Crosby been in the league? Why doesn’t he win every year? What happens when we have 10 Nathan MacKinnon‘s and Sidney Crosby‘s in the league all yelling at their teammates? Is he who screams the loudest the winner? It’s dumb on every level imaginable. If people want to give him the credit for the Avs success, then they have to explain why people just like him, including himself, didn't win now or previously.   

This is all fan speak for people who like to read a good story. 

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, SDS said:

 

I don’t buy for a moment that his screaming helped anything. Where was the success the previous eight years? Did he just start screaming this year? how long has Sidney Crosby been in the league? Why doesn’t he win every year? What happens when we have 10 Nathan MacKinnon‘s and Sidney Crosby‘s in the league all yelling at their teammates? Is he who screams the loudest the winner? It’s dumb on every level imaginable. If people want to give him the credit for the Avs success, then they have to explain why people just like him, including himself, didn't win now or previously.   

This is all fan speak for people who like to read a good story. 

I’d forgotten that piece of the story. So he yells as part of his leadership shtick. The yelling to me is secondary, even tertiary. The intensity of the demands that he places on his teammates is what I took away.