Official Sabres Acquire Ben Bishop and a 2022 7th Rounder for Future Considerations

[Doohicksie]

2 hours ago, Derrico said:

I really don’t understand this ‘nobody will sign in Buffalo’ mentality. 
 

Yes, the team has been crap for awhile but I’m sure some noticed around the league the finish to the season the team had.  I’m sure there are others seeing the signs of a pretty good core developing.  Not to mention the Sabres have all the room to overpay a little.  The Buffalo Sabres and any other team will have zero difficulty in reaching the cap floor. 

No, not that no one will sign in Buffalo, but who do you expect to sign to play here for say, $5 million per year, but for only one or two years?  Kevyn can't bring in expensive pieces without affecting his ability to sign the young guns over the next year or two.

[Zamboni]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

No, not that no one will sign in Buffalo, but who do you expect to sign to play here for say, $5 million per year, but for only one or two years?  Kevyn can't bring in expensive pieces without affecting his ability to sign the young guns over the next year or two.

IF Fleury only cared about money and NOT if he can win another cup, and KA knew this … and IF Fleury was open to the idea, KA could throw 2 years at 8-9 mil per at him. it would not affect Signing any young gun for the 22-23 season AND the 23-24 season. Fleury would be a terrific mentor, veteran and leader for all the younger guys and the team overall. 
YES it’s a lot of “if’s” but throwing a bunch of stupid money at a quality vet who can lead on and off the ice for the next two years will be ok as far as KA and the cap are concerned. At least that’s how I see it.

[Derrico]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

No, not that no one will sign in Buffalo, but who do you expect to sign to play here for say, $5 million per year, but for only one or two years?  Kevyn can't bring in expensive pieces without affecting his ability to sign the young guns over the next year or two.

PK Subban, MA Fleury, Palat? Stastny have anything left on a short term deal?  Trade candidates? 

[Doohicksie]

43 minutes ago, Derrico said:

PK Subban, MA Fleury, Palat? Stastny have anything left on a short term deal?  Trade candidates? 

All interesting choices.  If Kevyn tries he might land one, maybe two of them.  But none of them is a sure bet and depend on offers they get from other teams ($ and term).  But if he doesn't land any of them, having the extra $5 million for the cap floor will be a good thing.  (And if he lands all of them, then the Bishop cap hit can be buried on LTIR.)

[shrader]

5 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

No need to even name the names. It's the goal of the team to play the kids and improve as the kids improve. (And last year they did so. Given goaltending, they'll improve again this year.) And the hope is this season and (realistically next 2023-4): here come the Buffalo Sabres! It'll take time, but it took time in Carolina, too.

You don't want to sign a washed-up Meszaros for $4M to get to the floor just because you need to. Because he will play. Injuries will occur and any vet you sign is going to see ice time. And the best UFA players either might not fit the game style/approach or want to join the rebuild when a contender has a spot open. Bishop is ideal for the cap floor because he won't be with the team, there won't be any whining about playing time or blocking anyone, or poor practice habits, or that he needs to play if UPL is in a slump, etc.

This team will be adding guys like Krebs, Quinn, Peterka, Power, Samuelson, and passively UPL as full time players. Then you’ve already got another ELC in Cozens. Outside of Skinner, Okposo, and Dahlin, you’ve got nothing but low price tags and a good number of roster slots filled up. Now I know some might want Quinn and Peterka to see more AHL time, but I don’t think that happens. The team has a lot of roster slots filled up at a very low cap hit.
 

They are not getting up towards the cap by filling these extra slots unless they hand out nothing but big contracts. And there is very little reason to be inking anything like that long term right now. How many players want to sign on for that big money 1-2 year deal? And does that type short term transition help any more than the other approach of signing the reclamation projects again and letting the kids grow together? I really don’t know. I have no problem with them getting their cap but up to somewhere middle of the road, leaving open the flexibility to either add or subtract mid-season depending on how things have gone. 

[matter2003]

3 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

Patience. The UFA period is coming soon (after everyone signs their in-house players) and that’s when we can  discuss this to no end. But Bishop has little bearing on that. They’re playing the primary kids and supplementing with some vets. The core is exciting and excited. And it will be strong. The key is not upsetting it with some mercenary but the right UFA. 

 

Agreed...there is definite optimism surrounding this young core and for good reason.

Cant wait to see what they add. Hopefully a goalie that actually plays 😂

[dudacek]

21 hours ago, Derrico said:

Love it when anyone comments about how important it is to get to the cap floor.  It’s very very easy for a team to hit the floor.  You sign some dudes.  This trade is a whatever but in no way did the Sabres have to make this move.  To even suggest it has an importance to the Sabres in anyway to get to the cap floor is comical. 

Lance Lysowksi reported the Sabres are paying $700,000 toward Bishop’s contract. 

In return, they get a 7th round draft pick and an insurance policy against falling under the cap floor.

Their other options:

• overpay some stiffs on short-term deals like Murray did with Mezsaros and pay them to stay away.
• Sign multiple good players to real free agent contracts, keep guys like Quinn and Peterka in the minors and cross your fingers those deals don’t become albatrosses in the future.
• Trade our young roster players for more expensive vets on suitable deals.

After signing Bryson and Olofsson, the team would have had about $13 million to spend to get to the cap floor and 4 roster spots open.

 

19 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Face it, this cap floor philosophy is ownership cutting costs and going with a slow long term building plan. It's BS, and it means we will be waiting longer to make the playoffs and we won't be truly competitive until many more of the kids like Power, Quinn, etc. come fully into their own. 

There's other ways to do this. You can go with mostly kids but you can also plug in key FA signings. Look at LA for example. Kept some veterans, lots of kids, added a guy like Danault, and they made the playoffs already. Look at the Rags. There's a mix of kids, veterans and free agents.  Building with the draft is the right approach, but strategic FA signings and smart moves get you there faster. 

The opportunity to take a leap forward was here, NOW, but this franchise wants us to wait. I could still be proven wrong, they might make moves, but I doubt it. I think we as fans are just going to be f'd again. 

They were always going to acquire a starting goalie, a veteran 2RHD and some depth guys. They were never going to be adding expensive big-name veterans on long term deals. They were always going to be riding the kids.

This doesn’t change that.

Edited June 12, 2022 by dudacek

[GASabresIUFAN]

12 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Lance Lysowksi reported the Sabres are paying $700,000 toward Bishop’s contract. 

In return, they get a 7th round draft pick and an insurance policy against falling under the cap floor.

Their other options:

• overpay some stiffs on shirt-term deals like Murray did with Mezsaros and pay them to stay away.
• Sign multiple good players to real free agent contracts, keep guys like Quinn and Peterka in the minors and cross your fingers those deals don’t become albatrosses in the future.
• Trade our young roster players for more expensive vets on suitable deals.

After signing Bryson and Olofsson, the team would have had about $13 million to spend to get to the cap floor and 4 roster spots open.

 

They were always going to acquire a starting goalie, a veteran 2RHD and some depth guys. They were never going to be adding expensive big-name veterans on long term deals. They were always going to be riding the kids.

This doesn’t change that.

Quick cap update

$47,801,667 for 12 forwards, 4 D and ZERO G.  This includes Bishops, CoHo, Bjork, JJP and Quinn.  

Add RFAs VO (5.5 for 4 years) and Bryson (1.67? for 3 years).  Add these two and the team has 13 forwards and 5 D for $54,971,667 or about 7.5 mill under the cap floor with 2 goalies slots and 3-4 skaters to sign (the 4th slot would be a Bjork replacement). 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Lance Lysowksi reported the Sabres are paying $700,000 toward Bishop’s contract. 

In return, they get a 7th round draft pick and an insurance policy against falling under the cap floor.

Their other options:

• overpay some stiffs on shirt-term deals like Murray did with Mezsaros and pay them to stay away.
• Sign multiple good players to real free agent contracts, keep guys like Quinn and Peterka in the minors and cross your fingers those deals don’t become albatrosses in the future.
• Trade our young roster players for more expensive vets on suitable deals.

After signing Bryson and Olofsson, the team would have had about $13 million to spend to get to the cap floor and 4 roster spots open.

 

They were always going to acquire a starting goalie, a veteran 2RHD and some depth guys. They were never going to be adding expensive big-name veterans on long term deals. They were always going to be riding the kids.

This doesn’t change that.

To the 3 bolded parts. 1. Yes, that's exactly what they should do instead. 2. Holes need to be filled with quality and the money is there to fill them. 3. It's an assumption. If they do that, if they still spend money and we get a good goalie and a veteran RHD and some depth or character guys fine, but until they do that - IF they do that......well that's the crux of it isn't it? 

[dudacek]

3 is not an assumption. It’s math.

They have to spend at least another $14 million. They have 6 defencemen and no goalies under contract. They have to sign someone. 

If you thought they were going to bring in Fluery and Letang and Giroux and not play Peterka and Quinn and Krebs you haven’t been paying attention.

You’re going to get presumably more expensive and better replacements for Eakin, Pysyk and Anderson and whole bunch a ice time for the kids.

 

[Derrico]

9 hours ago, dudacek said:

Lance Lysowksi reported the Sabres are paying $700,000 toward Bishop’s contract. 

In return, they get a 7th round draft pick and an insurance policy against falling under the cap floor.

Their other options:

• overpay some stiffs on shirt-term deals like Murray did with Mezsaros and pay them to stay away.
• Sign multiple good players to real free agent contracts, keep guys like Quinn and Peterka in the minors and cross your fingers those deals don’t become albatrosses in the future.
• Trade our young roster players for more expensive vets on suitable deals.

After signing Bryson and Olofsson, the team would have had about $13 million to spend to get to the cap floor and 4 roster spots open.

 

They were always going to acquire a starting goalie, a veteran 2RHD and some depth guys. They were never going to be adding expensive big-name veterans on long term deals. They were always going to be riding the kids.

This doesn’t change that.

Nobody is advocating for artificially ensuring Quinn/Peterka stay in the minors (or even give out long term ufa deals with respect to your albatross comment) and absolutely nobody is advocating for trading the young core for high priced players just to ensure they get to the cap floor lol. 

Option 1 (no it doesn’t have to be Mezeros level and nice name dropping exGMTM just so anyone on the fence will think it’s now a terrible idea).  There are vet FA or other guys who actually play hockey you could trade a very low level draft pick for that may even contribute off the ice for some of these young guys as well.

I enjoy reading your posts more than maybe anyone else on here but your comment ‘in return….and an insurance policy against falling under the cap floor’ is very non-Dudacek.  The Buffalo Sabres will be just fine reaching the cap floor.  Zero insurance policies are needed.  Again, I don’t really care that much about this deal, my main point is simply that it is easy to reach the cap floor and the Sabres do not need any insurance policies or whatever to get there.  There are many avenues and several of them involve acquiring players that will be around the team and helping on and off the ice. 
 

My preference is to either sign a couple of vets on short deals (I’ve already provided my best potential examples in this thread) and think it is very realistic that it could happen (I don’t understand all of this because Buffalo mentality).  Or, considering there are loads of cap teams looking to offload a guy that may not be living up to his cap hit, should be extremely cheap or may even be able to pick up an asset for a guy who can actually contribute.  If zona can manage to reach the cap floor every year, I think Buff can find a way without trading for dudes who don’t even play in the nhl anymore. 

Edited June 12, 2022 by Derrico

[dudacek]

31 minutes ago, Derrico said:

Nobody is advocating for artificially ensuring Quinn/Peterka stay in the minors (or even give out long term ufa deals with respect to your albatross comment) and absolutely nobody is advocating for trading the young core for high priced players just to ensure they get to the cap floor lol. 

Option 1 (no it doesn’t have to be Mezeros level and nice name dropping exGMTM just so anyone on the fence will think it’s now a terrible idea).  There are vet FA or other guys who actually play hockey you could trade a very low level draft pick for that may even contribute off the ice for some of these young guys as well.

I enjoy reading your posts more than maybe anyone else on here but your comment ‘in return….and an insurance policy against falling under the cap floor’ is very non-Dudacek.  The Buffalo Sabres will be just fine reaching the cap floor.  Zero insurance policies are needed.  Again, I don’t really care that much about this deal, my main point is simply that it is easy to reach the cap floor and the Sabres do not need any insurance policies or whatever to get there.  There are many avenues and several of them involve acquiring players that will be around the team and helping on and off the ice. 
 

My preference is to either sign a couple of vets on short deals (I’ve already provided my best potential examples in this thread) and think it is very realistic that it could happen (I don’t understand all of this because Buffalo mentality).  Or, considering there are loads of cap teams looking to offload a guy that may not be living up to his cap hit, should be extremely cheap or may even be able to pick up an asset for a guy who can actually contribute.  If zona can manage to reach the cap floor every year, I think Buff can find a way without trading for dudes who don’t even play in the nhl anymore. 

It might not have seemed like it, but I wasn’t actually disagreeing with you. You’re spot on about meh.

Some are reading way too much into this deal. It doesn’t mean our goal is to cheap out or that we were desperate to reach the floor.

This is spending $700,000 to gain a 7th round pick and some cap flexibility. What I mean by “insurance policy” is that it’s not “the plan”, it’s a contingency.

It’s the equivalent of signing Brandon Davidson: nice to have if needed I guess, but not something you are planning to bank on.

[nfreeman]

While I agree that the Sabres didn’t need this particular deal to get to the floor, I think KA thought he would need something like this at some point, and the rock bottom $700K real cash cost made it too good for him to pass up.

The real question is whether, as a number of posters have forecasted, and as all of us are probably worried about deep down, this means that they are going to go super cheapskate mode again and not spend money to improve the team.

I think they will, but I don’t see how anyone could be very confident on that.  

[tom webster]

A couple of other points. 
 

1) No matter how much they may, or may not want to spend, there is no guarantee that they will find anyone to take it. Believe it, or not, it’s not all about the money.

 

2) The one point that I disagree with is that any decision has anything to do with future contracts. Barring another pandemic, the salary cap will explode and correct itself after the players’ debt to the owner is repaid. Any long term, market driven contracts, given to the right players,  secured in the interim will look like bargains in a few years.

[JoeSchmoe]

22 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

What a truly terrible idea. 

Truly, eh? Sounds like Sabrespace' arbiter of truth has ruled against me.

God forbid our GM expressing interest in signing some veteren leadership to high price, short term deals. Why would we want to win games next year or two and mentor our young team... All the while not getting caught up with any tampering violations. My mistake.

[tom webster]

26 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Truly, eh? Sounds like Sabrespace' arbiter of truth has ruled against me.

God forbid our GM expressing interest in signing some veteren leadership to high price, short term deals. Why would we want to win games next year or two and mentor our young team... All the while not getting caught up with any tampering violations. My mistake.

It makes no sense for any GM to publicly state his true intentions. He is not a public relations guy. The players and agents know what his intentions are. Sorry f you need to know before this season is even over.

Brandon Beane insisted the Bills couldn’t afford any “big splash” free agent hours before they announced signing Von Miller. That’s how things are supposed to be done.

[Flashsabre]

The Sabres owe it to the fan base and this young team to make a few moves.

A legit starting goalie and a solid dman that can play the right side.

These moves don’t have to be massive  deals that block anyone in the future or destroy the build but a couple solid moves to show the young team and the fan base that they believe that they are ready to take a step.

Lets say they sign DeSmith for 2 years and Comrie for 1 year in net and Subban for 2 years on D. Subtle upgrades that won’t throw things out of whack but would help solidify the lineup. DeSmith and Comrie are lower end options that would provide a solid tandem in net. Not a star #1 but a solid tandem that would go a long way.

Regardless of which players it is they add, they new to do something to show good Will and that they are serious.

Edited June 12, 2022 by Flashsabre

[woods-racer]

This is a move a good GM makes in this position. 

Plan for the worst while hoping for the best.

This move only solidifies that Adams has a level head on his shoulders. That is the only conclusion I can draw from this move.

[Buffalonill]

1 hour ago, Flashsabre said:

The Sabres owe it to the fan base and this young team to make a few moves.

A legit starting goalie and a solid dman that can play the right side.

These moves don’t have to be massive  deals that block anyone in the future or destroy the build but a couple solid moves to show the young team and the fan base that they believe that they are ready to take a step.

Lets say they sign DeSmith for 2 years and Comrie for 1 year in net and Subban for 2 years on D. Subtle upgrades that won’t throw things out of whack but would help solidify the lineup. DeSmith and Comrie are lower end options that would provide a solid tandem in net. Not a star #1 but a solid tandem that would go a long way.

Regardless of which players it is they add, they new to do something to show good Will and that they are serious.

I don't believe the Sabres are going to make any moves to push this team to the next level. 

Watch them be  Comfortable around 60+million and that's it 

[Taro T]

36 minutes ago, woods-racer said:

This is a move a good GM makes in this position. 

Plan for the worst while hoping for the best.

This move only solidifies that Adams has a level head on his shoulders. That is the only conclusion I can draw from this move.

Yup.

This move doesn't limit them in any way.  They aren't going to have 49 other contracts and be prevented from adding a college FA because they're already at 50 bodies.  (99% sure of that.)  As far below the cap that they are and with how many of the kids that are making figurative pennies, but will be earning & making big $'s (or at minimum ramping towards big $'s) in 2-3, there is no way this team is spending to the cap or even w/in $10MM of the cap minus these sort of deals.  Which means they're going to waste at least $10MM worth of cap.

A 7th rounder isn't much, but it beats the big fat zilch all this year's wasted cap space amounted to.

Would have preferred last year that Adams hadn't followed the path he did - pushing relevance out another couple of seasons, but he's started down the current path that will have this team improving in large part by young kids getting better as they gain muscle & experience (aka reaching their primes, or possibly as developing hockey wisdom 😉 ) and he isn't going to bring in big $ FAs, though he might & we can hope he brings in expensive AND good GTs.

With that being the case, this is a very minor move that is actually a good thing & doesn't truly have any real downside.  And like somebody said upthread, should Adams want to trade say an Olofsson or one of the new goalies or that vet D-man to make room for Johnson or somebody else, he doesn't have to worry about needing to make a separate deal to bring in an extra $3MM of cap salary to keep the roster compliant.

Truly doubt that the roster Adams assembles won't reach the floor on it's own, but who knows, but something like this just guarantees that there won't be any issues arising from technical issues of the timing of deals down the road; and as stated above it converts an asset that expires on 7/1/23 into something that will still have value, small as that may be.  MHO.  YMMV.

And remember, not only did a 7th rounder turn into Olofsson; another one turned into the majority of Sam Reinhart.  (Presuming Levi will be more valuable than whatever pick 28 becomes.)  Yeah, most 7th round picks end up being worth nothing.  But ALL expired, unused cap space IS worth nothing the instant the last RS game ends.

[Weave]

The concern I have with this move is the timing.  The timing tells me that the plan is to need the cap floor insurance.  That implies that getting outside vet help is not a priority (at least enough vet help to approach the cap floor anyway).

This is a move that could have been made the day before the season starts if we were still in need of getting to the floor.  
 

Regardless, I’ll gnash my teeth and rend garments when we actually get to the season opener and we still have significant holes.  There is alot of time. 

[Flashsabre]

Some of you are really damaged. Atleast wait until free agency opens before having your “We are doomed” meltdowns.😀

[JoeSchmoe]

1 hour ago, Flashsabre said:

Some of you are really damaged. Atleast wait until free agency opens before having your “We are doomed” meltdowns.😀

I'm not damaged, usually I'm the optimist. But with what I had hoped the team will do this offseason, this move would have been completely unnecessary. That's why I'm disappointed.

(I also don't believe the team would spend $700k real cash for a 7th round pick)

[thewookie1]

2 hours ago, Weave said:

The concern I have with this move is the timing.  The timing tells me that the plan is to need the cap floor insurance.  That implies that getting outside vet help is not a priority (at least enough vet help to approach the cap floor anyway).

This is a move that could have been made the day before the season starts if we were still in need of getting to the floor.  
 

Regardless, I’ll gnash my teeth and rend garments when we actually get to the season opener and we still have significant holes.  There is alot of time. 

I think this may have been a deal planned last deadline to be perfectly honest. However Dallas may have needed the LTIR space.

[Porous Five Hole]

2 hours ago, Weave said:

The concern I have with this move is the timing.  The timing tells me that the plan is to need the cap floor insurance.  That implies that getting outside vet help is not a priority (at least enough vet help to approach the cap floor anyway).

This is a move that could have been made the day before the season starts if we were still in need of getting to the floor.  
 

Regardless, I’ll gnash my teeth and rend garments when we actually get to the season opener and we still have significant holes.  There is alot of time. 

I think it just comes down to projected roster spots available.  There just aren’t too many that aren’t already written in pen (especially if you assume JJ/Quinn are on the big club).  
 

You don’t want to blow up the salary slotting of your roster because you had to overpay for a couple of UFA’s due to sheer necessity.