Official Sabres Acquire Ben Bishop and a 2022 7th Rounder for Future Considerations

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Thwomp! said:

Next year is going to look hopefully marginally better than this year. But it's going to be another year of only half assed competing, imo.

Also, how does this penny pinching BS look to the guys we want to sign? Particularly Johnson and Portillo. Good thing Levi is young, or he'd be thinking about options too.

What penny pinching?

Levi is 1 year younger. 

You think Johnson and Portillo didn't sign because of what exactly?

[Contempt]

2 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Except the NHL doesn't allow cash transactions.  And it's likely that 75% of that will be paid by insurance.

I guess. I dunno. I saw this transaction on the wire and was hopeful that we'd started to weaponize our cap space and saw we got a basically nothing to do Dallas a favor. Whatever.  

We need an actual goaltender if not two.  Shouldn't be that hard to spend enough money if you're trying to actually fix the issues we have without taking on a BS contract for nothing.

Edited June 11, 2022 by Contempt

[Curt]

2 hours ago, Doohickie said:

I disagree.  He might need to go to ownership for a final signoff but at this point I expect that to be more of a courtesy to the Pegulas than anything else.  As far as running the Sabres goes, this is Kevyn's team.

Its the Pegulas’ team.  KA manages it for them.  It’s not his money that he is spending.  I would assume that he needs to get his yearly budget approved by ownership.  I expect that is, not a courtesy to them, but a requirement.  Terry Pegula has not shown himself to be the type of owner who hires someone and then just quietly writes checks for them.  He is the type of owner who is there for phone calls to free agents and sits in on prospect interviews.  He is involved.

[Contempt]

4 minutes ago, Curt said:

He is involved.

Which is why they are what they are.

[JoeSchmoe]

44 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Sure he could, say, add a Taylor Hall type big name as well, and send Bjork, or Peterka or Quinn to the minors to make room, but I don’t think he thinks that’s the best thing for the organization.

Sending Bjork to the minors is absolutely a good move. Sending Bjork to clean the washrooms on the 300 level is even better.

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, JoeSchmoe said:

It's because they wouldn't spend the $1million+ for a 7th round pick if the plan was to spend above the floor anyways. 

Edit: you might be right that this COULD be insurance, it's more likely this is your classic Coyote move.

It's kind of like I said in another post:  If you want to sign a FA to fill that slot, pay a lot but only for a year or two..... who is he going to sign?  I think this is mostly Kevyn getting ahead of the curve.  He screwed up on Ullmark and lost him and screwed up the goalie situation.  I think he's learned that he can't depend on things that are other people's decisions.  If the right FA or trade comes along to improve the team he will certainly get that player, but he doesn't know who really will sign and who won't, so by making this move it gives him the flexibility to maybe make a lesser move for lower money and still be cap compliant.  It's good cap management.  If the right players are identified and he spends $20 million on them, the Bishop contract doesn't hurt anything.

Edited June 11, 2022 by Doohickie

[dudacek]

15 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Sending Bjork to the minors is absolutely a good move. Sending Bjork to clean the washrooms on the 300 level is even better.

I don’t think even Adams would disagree. I certainly don’t.

At this point Bjork is the 13th forward and probably doesn’t have a future with the team. Bringing in someone whombumps him to the 14th forward is not the issue for Adams, I believe.

Bringing in someone who makes Peterka or Quinn the 14th forward is where the issue is. Until they show they can’t, he wants those guys to play, and not 8 minutes a night.

Edited June 11, 2022 by dudacek

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

All owners set the player budget, most GMs get to allocate it.

Most owners also approve any significant long-term contracts. Some (certainly Terry) will sometimes direct their GMs to spend more than that GM wanted, or chase players that owner wanted (Leino, Ehrhoff, Eichel, Skinner, Girgensons).

Yes, and what I'm saying isn't necessarily at odds with that.  I get the sense that their is more trust between the Pegulas and Kevyn than with previous GMs and that the trust goes both ways. 

XGMTM would just bring players in he that were good players and that ended up failing.  Kevyn considers team chemistry to a much greater extent.  If he identified a player that broke the budget but would greatly improve the team's fortunes, I think he could lay out the logic to the Pegulas as to why it was a good move and they would agree.  And in return he would stress how the Pegulas were involved in the decision, probably giving them more credit than was due them, but Kevyn is more about pumping up the team than pumping up himself.  It's a more cooperative (both ways) atmosphere.

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Adams has basically chosen to invest approximately $1 million in real money in a 7th rounder in order to make sure he doesn’t risk having to pay an Andrej Meszaros $5 million to suck like Tim Murray did. But he’s still left the door wide open to sign a worthwhile player to that deal if that opportunity presents itself.

Yes.  This.  123%.

[Doohicksie]

34 minutes ago, Contempt said:

I guess. I dunno. I saw this transaction on the wire and was hopeful that we'd started to weaponize our cap space and saw we got a basically nothing to do Dallas a favor. Whatever.  

We need an actual goaltender if not two.  Shouldn't be that hard to spend enough money if you're trying to actually fix the issues we have without taking on a BS contract for nothing.

I agree about the goaltenders, but if you got excited thinking Bishop was solving that issue then disappointed when you realized he isn't playing anymore, that was jumping to conclusions.  This was just a mundane transaction to get to the cap while preserving future cap space when young players need to be signed.

Now, if the Sabres go into next season with a goalie tandem of Anderson and Toker, then your disappointment would be justified.

[JoeSchmoe]

13 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

It's kind of like I said in another post:  If you want to sign a FA to fill that slot, pay a lot but only for a year or two..... who is he going to sign?  I think this is mostly Kevyn getting ahead of the curve.  He screwed up on Ullmark and lost him and screwed up the goalie situation.  I think he's learned that he can't depend on things that are other people's decisions.  If the right FA or trade comes along to improve the team he will certainly get that player, but he doesn't know who really will sign and who won't, so by making this move it gives him the flexibility to maybe make a lesser move for lower money and still be cap compliant.  It's good cap management.  If the right players are identified and he spends $20 million on them, the Bishop contract doesn't hurt anything.

I hope you're right and good on you for the optimism.

But my take is that if last year's goalie signings tell us anything, costs are going to be priority #1. With that, I strongly feel they'll get to the floor and stop there. 

[JoeSchmoe]

3 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Now, if the Sabres go into next season with a goalie tandem of Anderson and Toker, then your disappointment would be justified.

As I said... I'd have preferred they kept the cap room and add it the Brinks truck we're giving Fleury.

[Doohicksie]

7 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

if last year's goalie signings tell us anything, costs are going to be priority #1. With that, I strongly feel they'll get to the floor and stop there. 

What last year's goalie signings told us is that Adams genuinely believed Ullmark was returning and when he left Kevyn was totally flat footed and he scrambled to do the best he could without committing to a long term solution with UPL, Portillo and Levi in the pipeline.  Remember too that his number one priority at that time was getting a good return for Jack.  In the year that has passed I think he probably looks at the position differently now, and also perceives UPL, Portillo and Levi as not automatic future Sabres.  I expect his approach will be considerably different his year.

[Doohicksie]

10 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

As I said... I'd have preferred they kept the cap room and add it the Brinks truck we're giving Fleury.

They will be able to make Fleury the highest paid goalie in the league and still have room to spare.  He won't even come close to the cap.  But if he does, all he has to do is move LTIR Bishop.  This has ZERO, repeat, ZERO effect on his ability to land Fleury.  Fleury may choose to go elsewhere but that decision will not be affected by this deal.

[JoeSchmoe]

27 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

They will be able to make Fleury the highest paid goalie in the league and still have room to spare.  He won't even come close to the cap.  But if he does, all he has to do is move LTIR Bishop.  This has ZERO, repeat, ZERO effect on his ability to land Fleury.  Fleury may choose to go elsewhere but that decision will not be affected by this deal.

Again, the optimism is awesome and I hope you come away right about all this, but you're operating under the assumption they're willing to spend money this offseason.

I'm operating under the assumption they're going on the cheap again this year and this move was the first to get to the floor and stay there.

Meanwhile, with average or better NHL goaltending and a solid RHD pickup, I feel like they'll be playing for a playoff spot (now how's that for optimism!).

[PerreaultForever]

I'm not going to mince words, I think this approach is dumbass. 

[Contempt]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

I agree about the goaltenders, but if you got excited thinking Bishop was solving that issue then disappointed when you realized he isn't playing anymore, that was jumping to conclusions.  This was just a mundane transaction to get to the cap while preserving future cap space when young players need to be signed.

Now, if the Sabres go into next season with a goalie tandem of Anderson and Toker, then your disappointment would be justified.

No, I know Bishop can't play. My hope was that they'd gotten something of value in exchange for taking his contract (indicating that they might engage in more of this type of behavior to fill the gaping holes on this team) and they didn't.

[bunomatic]

Helping other teams with their cap crunch so we can get to the floor is moronic. Helping other teams get better while we tread water. Not my cup of tea.

[steveoath]

Correct me if I am wrong, but can Bishops contracts counts against the cap for now, but at any point Adams could put him on LTIR? Thus getting space back? 

[Curt]

1 hour ago, steveoath said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but can Bishops contracts counts against the cap for now, but at any point Adams could put him on LTIR? Thus getting space back? 

Bishops contract would need to fit under the cap on opening day of the season, but after that it could be moved to LTIR to create additional cap space.

[sabresparaavida]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

Bishops contract would need to fit under the cap on opening day of the season, but after that it could be moved to LTIR to create additional cap space.

However, the cap relief provided by LTIRing Bishop would not accrue for staying unused for later in the season, the cap space created by putting him on LtIr is for the present only. 

[dudacek]

8 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Again, the optimism is awesome and I hope you come away right about all this, but you're operating under the assumption they're willing to spend money this offseason.

I'm operating under the assumption they're going on the cheap again this year and this move was the first to get to the floor and stay there.

Meanwhile, with average or better NHL goaltending and a solid RHD pickup, I feel like they'll be playing for a playoff spot (now how's that for optimism!).

They are still $14 million below the floor.

They still need to spend ~ $10 million on a goalie and a right D to get to the floor and stay there.

[shrader]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

They are still $14 million below the floor.

They still need to spend ~ $10 million on a goalie and a right D to get to the floor and stay there.

And they don’t want to get exactly to the floor, they want to be well above it (I don’t know what that number would be). That way, if in the middle of the season you wind up moving out, for example, someone making $2 million, you don’t have to add back on at least that much money in the deal. 

[Scottysabres]

Many here hitting the mark, and missing the mark altogether.

This is a cap compliant move with very little money going out in actual cash from the Pegulas. Take a look around you, the current powers that be are crashing the not only the economy, but the currency, retaining what you can in savings while hitting your "minimum to survive" goal isn't just for those looking to save every penny, it's everybody's mantra in this environment, especially the wealthy. 

[Buffalonill]

The new coyotes .

Anyone trying to defend this is just another brainwashed individual.

Buffalo helped out another team for free 

 

Edited June 11, 2022 by Buffalonill