Report Vegas Golden Knights Have Hired Bruce Cassidy as Head Coach

[Contempt]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

When all is said and done it appears that Jack's decision to not yield on what surgery he should have is the right decision. We won't know for sure until we see how he plays after the offseason and further on, but he was right that his preferred surgery got him back on the ice sooner than if he got the surgery that the Sabres were calling for. 

I have said it before but trading Jack was the right thing to do for the player and the organization. 

Sooner wasn't the question. It was long term durability and that very much remains to be seen

[JohnC]

15 minutes ago, Contempt said:

Sooner wasn't the question. It was long term durability and that very much remains to be seen

Yes, the long term issue can't be answered right now. But I have come around to the position that he had a right to be the one to make the decision regarding his own health. And he was right that the procedure that he preferred allowed him to back on the ice sooner than the other more extensive procedure. 

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

I'm not disagreeing, I'm just wondering what we consider a 'killer season' to be next year.

-Lead the team in scoring and they go deep into the playoffs?

-Top 5 in the NHL in scoring (last year would have meant about 110 points)?

-Final 3 for league MVP?

-Top 5 in league for goals (last year would have been about 50 goals)?

 

If he is healthy, I think career highs in points/scoring should be a given, seeing how scoring has gone up in the past couple years.  But his career best season (2019-2020), he had 1.15 points per game.  Last year in the NHL, that would have put him 24th in the league.  Again, I'm just not sure we know what a 'killer' season can be.

By killer season, I meant a career year.

[Contempt]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Yes, the long term issue can't be answered right now. But I have come around to the position that he had a right to be the one to make the decision regarding his own health. And he was right that the procedure that he preferred allowed him to back on the ice sooner than the other more extensive procedure. 

He had the right to make that decision all along. What he didn't have was the right to tell his employer who held the long term liability for tens of millions of dollars what to do. 

FWIW it wasn't "the team" who didn't agree. At the end of the day the only person saying yes or no to 50 million dollar decisions is Lord Terrence.

13 hours ago, Brawndo said:

2019-20

It was 18-19 wasn't it?

Edited June 26, 2022 by Contempt

[Brawndo]

32 minutes ago, Contempt said:

He had the right to make that decision all along. What he didn't have was the right to tell his employer who held the long term liability for tens of millions of dollars what to do. 

FWIW it wasn't "the team" who didn't agree. At the end of the day the only person saying yes or no to 50 million dollar decisions is Lord Terrence.

It was 18-19 wasn't it?

He missed 5 games in 18-19, compared to only one in 19-20 and His PPG was higher(barely) in 19-20

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, Taro T said:

Don't forget, he was playing through injury the last 8 or so games of '19-'20 and he was in his only prolonged slump of that season.  He'd been on pace for ~120 in a full year prior to that.

Should he ever stay healthy for an entire season, he could be up there.  But even in an "Eichel full season" of ~72 games, he could get to 100 points.

To me it doesn't matter how much he gets, or how many points, what matters is will that team win more games with him. He certainly didn't deliver wins down the stretch and was less than impressive in big key moments.  So Jack with a Matthews type season and a few awards sure, go for it, but if Vegas misses the playoffs at the same time, that's another story isn't it? 

It will also be interesting to see if he shies away from contact or babies the injured area in any way. He was never an overly physical guy (although he should have been) but if he constantly thinks about the injury and avoids contact, his game will suffer big time, and I can see that possibility happening.

[Taro T]

9 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

To me it doesn't matter how much he gets, or how many points, what matters is will that team win more games with him. He certainly didn't deliver wins down the stretch and was less than impressive in big key moments.  So Jack with a Matthews type season and a few awards sure, go for it, but if Vegas misses the playoffs at the same time, that's another story isn't it? 

It will also be interesting to see if he shies away from contact or babies the injured area in any way. He was never an overly physical guy (although he should have been) but if he constantly thinks about the injury and avoids contact, his game will suffer big time, and I can see that possibility happening.

He certainly didn't.  And reportedly he was playing w/ a broken bone in his hand.  Which would be a big factor in his scoring drought down the stretch.

It's the frequency of the injuries and the combination of his ability to play through them but at a significant downgrade in performance that will end up being the reason the Sabres are coming out well in the aftermath of the trade.  Just what we've seen from 1/2 of the trade package is pretty comparable to 60 games of healthy Eichel & another 12 of broken Jack.  And there should be 1 more legit NHLer & possibly a 2nd showing up in 2-4 years.

Doubt he will shy away from contact - he never has when healthy.  And because of that doubt he ever sees another season above 72 or so games played.  But, yeah, should it happen, his game would suffer.  His game ain't Miro Satan's; he would be much less effective being a true passenger.

[North Buffalo]

2 hours ago, Contempt said:

He had the right to make that decision all along. What he didn't have was the right to tell his employer who held the long term liability for tens of millions of dollars what to do. 

FWIW it wasn't "the team" who didn't agree. At the end of the day the only person saying yes or no to 50 million dollar decisions is Lord Terrence.

It was 18-19 wasn't it?

Oh this was an insurance decision that made Sabres say no... if Jack agreed to assume liability maybe this ends differently... That being said I am glad it worked out the way it did given the team the Sabres arevtrying to build...

[K-9]

10 hours ago, JohnC said:

Yes, the long term issue can't be answered right now. But I have come around to the position that he had a right to be the one to make the decision regarding his own health. And he was right that the procedure that he preferred allowed him to back on the ice sooner than the other more extensive procedure. 

Eichel clearly didn’t have the right to his preferred procedure as the CBA gives that power to the teams instead of the players. And while it’s true that the ADR is a three month recovery vs. the six months for the fusion surgery Eichel, by insisting on having the ADR, delayed his return to the ice by more than a month longer than if he’d gone ahead with the fusion immediately after the rehab stint that failed to improve the condition initially. 

[JohnC]

8 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Eichel clearly didn’t have the right to his preferred procedure as the CBA gives that power to the teams instead of the players. And while it’s true that the ADR is a three month recovery vs. the six months for the fusion surgery Eichel, by insisting on having the ADR, delayed his return to the ice by more than a month longer than if he’d gone ahead with the fusion immediately after the rehab stint that failed to improve the condition initially. 

He refused to not go along with what was proscribed in the CBA. I'm aware of that. However, I don't blame him for the stance that he took. There is another way of looking at the situation. If the organization would have allowed him to have the surgery he wanted, as Vegas did, he would have returned to the ice even sooner. He did his own research and consulted with a number of doctors. The medical experts he consulted with were in conflict with the experts that the Sabres consulted with. In the health business that is not an unusual situation. He acted in his own interest in this medical issue. I have no criticism for the position he took, especially after the results of his preferred procedure appear to have worked out. 

[K-9]

20 minutes ago, JohnC said:

He refused to not go along with what was proscribed in the CBA. I'm aware of that. However, I don't blame him for the stance that he took. There is another way of looking at the situation. If the organization would have allowed him to have the surgery he wanted, as Vegas did, he would have returned to the ice even sooner. He did his own research and consulted with a number of doctors. The medical experts he consulted with were in conflict with the experts that the Sabres consulted with. In the health business that is not an unusual situation. He acted in his own interest in this medical issue. I have no criticism for the position he took, especially after the results of his preferred procedure appear to have worked out. 

I’m not criticizing Eichel, merely pointing out that he created his own longer delay in returning to the ice. I have no interest in re-litigating the issue. Both parties acted in their own best interests. But it sounds like people are taking shots at the Sabres and their perfectly legal and sensible position when they defend Eichel’s decision to hold out. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

I’m not criticizing Eichel, merely pointing out that he created his own longer delay in returning to the ice. I have no interest in re-litigating the issue. Both parties acted in their own best interests. But it sounds like people are taking shots at the Sabres and their perfectly legal and sensible position when they defend Eichel’s decision to hold out. 

It's all BS though, don't forget that. Guy wanted out. They used the injury and the Sabres position as leverage for getting out. The Jack wants out rumours started a long time ago and clearly, they were real. The guy NEVER put the team first. Glad it's over. 

[JohnC]

9 hours ago, K-9 said:

I’m not criticizing Eichel, merely pointing out that he created his own longer delay in returning to the ice. I have no interest in re-litigating the issue. Both parties acted in their own best interests. But it sounds like people are taking shots at the Sabres and their perfectly legal and sensible position when they defend Eichel’s decision to hold out. 

You know my position on the Eichel saga. I'm not taking a shot at the Sabres's position in this matter. I never had. It was understandable. But on the other side of the equation Jack's position in protecting his own interest associated with his career, health and course of treatment is also understandable. There were different perspectives by the parties involved. The stakes were high for each side of the conflict. After what appeared to be a standoff, it eventually got worked out. 

In the end, it worked out well for the player and also for the Sabres. This was a complicated situation that involved complex medical issues, player disgruntlement, financial exposure for each party, a new GM who wanted to clean the slate and go in a different direction etc. The GM established a baseline of conditions in order to make the trade. I believe he got it. He exhibited fortitude and deftness. I'm more than satisfied with the outcome. From my perspective, there were no bad guys, simply parties with different interests in play. As with most businesses you make some compromises and come to an acceptable deal.

 

[JohnC]

7 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

It's all BS though, don't forget that. Guy wanted out. They used the injury and the Sabres position as leverage for getting out. The Jack wants out rumours started a long time ago and clearly, they were real. The guy NEVER put the team first. Glad it's over. 

He clearly wanted out. That wasn't a secret. And so did a good portion of the team. Risto, Reinhart, ROR, Hall, McCabe etc. It's not surprising that systemic organizational disfunction leads to internal turmoil. It appears that the franchise is now more smartly run. Hopefully, that will stabilize the situation and improve the player dynamics on the team. 

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, JohnC said:

He clearly wanted out. That wasn't a secret. And so did a good portion of the team. Risto, Reinhart, ROR, Hall, McCabe etc. It's not surprising that systemic organizational disfunction leads to internal turmoil. It appears that the franchise is now more smartly run. Hopefully, that will stabilize the situation and improve the player dynamics on the team. 

True, but I don't put all of that on the organization. When the players who are supposed to lead don't lead, it becomes pretty hard to work with. Current orgnaization just cleaned house and started over. Only option. The correct option imo, that I had been advocating for a couple years now. 

I still believe that if they'd named ROR captain things may have gone quite differently. 

 

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

True, but I don't put all of that on the organization. When the players who are supposed to lead don't lead, it becomes pretty hard to work with. Current orgnaization just cleaned house and started over. Only option. The correct option imo, that I had been advocating for a couple years now. 

I still believe that if they'd named ROR captain things may have gone quite differently. 

 

I don't put all the blame on the organization or the player. I never have. There is enough blame to be shared by all parties. It was an organizational decision to make him a captain. He simply wasn't equipped for that role. I don't give much significance to ROR not being named captain. He, like a lot of other disgruntled players, recognized that there was little chance to experience success in Buffalo. The biggest issue that plagued this franchise and dominated other issues is that this franchise was poorly run. How many coaching and GM changes happened within this short period of time? How good was the drafting or the trades and FA deals? Jack wasn't even with the team when it visibly quit on Krueger who was inflexibly adhering to an outdated system that would never work in today's NHL. 

I agree to a large extent that the GM decided to remake this roster. And that was the right decision to move forward. However, he didn't fully clear house and start over. Dahlin, Mitts, Cozens and others were kept. If he would have jettisoned all the players he inherited it would have been another grotesque franchise mistake. He identified the players who wanted to be here and be part of rebuild. And from that core he is building on. 

Too many people are looking to identify the bad guy. The deterioration in relationship between the player and the organization had many facets to it. In the end, his trade to Vegas worked out well for the player and for the franchise. Too many people are invested in chasing the boogeyman bad guy. I'm not one of them.  

[PerreaultForever]

37 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Too many people are looking to identify the bad guy. The deterioration in relationship between the player and the organization had many facets to it. In the end, his trade to Vegas worked out well for the player and for the franchise. Too many people are invested in chasing the boogeyman bad guy. I'm not one of them.  

Sports is always about heroes and villains. After his comments following the return to Buffalo loss he will forever be cemented as a villain in my book. I truly hope his time in Vegas is horrible. 

[PerreaultForever]

A lot of things coming out in Bruins circles about Cassidy. Don't know if they are all true but it seems many people were not happy. Krejci left. The DeBrusk trade request was because of Cassidy. Cassidy apparently had 5 or 6 guys that he constantly critiqued and ignored many other players. Anton Blidh for example (sometimes 4th liner) claims Cassidy never spoke a single word to him in the last 2 months of the season. 

So anyway, the only reason I'm posting this is to say GOOD LUCK JACK YOU DESERVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!