Rangers Re-Build Is Looking Really Good. Is The Sabres Re-Build Going As Well?

[bob_sauve28]

 

Rangers obviously have great goaltending but they also have a quality lineup. 

Do you think the Sabres are looking as good in their re-build? 

I think we are filling the lineup with very quality talent and I love the fact we have tons of draft picks. 

 

 

[msw2112]

As you correctly mention, the goaltending is the big difference.  If the Sabres can somehow land a great goalie, they, too could make the playoffs and have success.  Even consistent competent goaltending gets this ascending team over .500 and jockeying for a spot in the playoffs.  Obviously the goaltending siutation is a major "if."

[sabresparaavida]

If the Sabres had the rangers Sv%, they would have allowed ~213 goals this season, and they scored 229. 

[Carmel Corn]

19 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

 

Rangers obviously have great goaltending but they also have a quality lineup. 

Do you think the Sabres are looking as good in their re-build? 

I think we are filling the lineup with very quality talent and I love the fact we have tons of draft picks. 

 

 

They have a good coach, strong goaltending and some elite up & coming talent.  Hopefully Donnie is our answer at coach and we have improved our talent pool.  Goaltending gap is obvious, but I feel the Rangers also made some player moves to improve as well....which is something I think GMKA needs to consider more of.

[GASabresIUFAN]

We actually have more scoring depth.  They only had 6 forward score 10 or more goals, lead by Kreider’s 52.  Interestingly the kids line has really stepped up for them.  

Ultimately if the rebuild is to work, we need to get goaltending.  KA can’t wait for Levi.

[mjd1001]

At this moment, the Sabres rebuild looks good, but it is hard to compare it to the Rangers.  The Sabres rebuild is more focused on the top talent at the Blue Line, the Rangers top talent is up front and in goal.  Also, the Rangers are at the midway point of their rebuild 'race', where the Sabres current/newest attempt at a rebuild is much closer to the starting line.

[WhenWillItEnd66]

The Rags have one of the top 3 goalies in the NHL, if not the world right now. They are younger with a great top line. They have great speed and size to play aggressive. Unfortunately the are pretty much a team with only 1 1/2 countable lines for scoring. They do have a great top defensive line but drop hard from there. I think they are very luck this playoffs as they have been mostly playing 2nd and 3rd string goalies. They are ahead of us, but us getting a solid minder, puts us even IMHO.

[JohnC]

17 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

At this moment, the Sabres rebuild looks good, but it is hard to compare it to the Rangers.  The Sabres rebuild is more focused on the top talent at the Blue Line, the Rangers top talent is up front and in goal.  Also, the Rangers are at the midway point of their rebuild 'race', where the Sabres current/newest attempt at a rebuild is much closer to the starting line.

I have a different view as to where the Sabres are in their rebuild. This roster is significantly better stocked than if it was at the starting point of a rebuild. There are a number of young players already on the roster who are nearly ready to be categorized as established NHL players, such as Cozens, Mitts, Joki, Dahlin, Power, Tage and Samuelsson. Next year's addition to that collection of young players will be Quinn and JJ. 

There is no question that the goalie issue is the biggest issue that needs to be addressed. I'm very hopeful that the GM will bring in a credible goalie and another defenseman or two to better round this roster. Considering how things have been shaping up I believe that this team should be competing for a low playoff spot throughout the season. Teams in the embryonic stage of a rebuild are not capable of staying in the mix for a playoff spot. 

[Marvin]

Maybe the Rangers' success will force GMKA to value goaltending more -- preferably like I do.

[PerreaultForever]

It's a real apples and oranges comparison. We are nowhere near them. They have a great goalie, we have none at this point. They signed big name veterans like Panarin and Kreider and already had Zabanejad. I suppose the way they fleeced Boston on the Nash deal is similar to how we traded Risto for quality picks and they have a few top lottery picks, but unlike us, those lottery picks are not the core of the team right now. They have marginal roles at this time. Fox also wanting only to play there didn't hurt their chances, and everybody already knows I wanted KA to hire Gallant. They have 4th line grit and a balanced roster. We have potential and some potentially great young talent, but we also have holes all over the line up. 

Now if KA adds a great goalie somehow and some solid veteran talent to play with the young players we might be closer, but I doubt that happens. We are going to have to wait and hope that Levi or Portello or maybe UPL saves us and that might be a wait. 

[JohnC]

11 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

It's a real apples and oranges comparison. We are nowhere near them. They have a great goalie, we have none at this point. They signed big name veterans like Panarin and Kreider and already had Zabanejad. I suppose the way they fleeced Boston on the Nash deal is similar to how we traded Risto for quality picks and they have a few top lottery picks, but unlike us, those lottery picks are not the core of the team right now. They have marginal roles at this time. Fox also wanting only to play there didn't hurt their chances, and everybody already knows I wanted KA to hire Gallant. They have 4th line grit and a balanced roster. We have potential and some potentially great young talent, but we also have holes all over the line up. 

Now if KA adds a great goalie somehow and some solid veteran talent to play with the young players we might be closer, but I doubt that happens. We are going to have to wait and hope that Levi or Portello or maybe UPL saves us and that might be a wait. 

The GM hired the right man for the job with the Granato signing. In no way am I diminishing the job that Gallant has done with the Rangers. He's done an excellent job in NY. Granato's greatest strength as a coach is developing young talent. Much of his coaching experience before assuming the HC position revolved around working with young players and prospects. My point is that Granato was the right person at the right time in the right circumstance when he was hired here. The same can be said for Gallant in NY. In making the comparison it isn't so much who is the better coach as it is who is the better fit. Buffalo got it right; and so did the Rangers. 

[dudacek]

I don't see a good comparison here.

The Rangers best players are:

• Panarin 29
• Zibanejad 28
• Kreider 30
• Strome 28
• Trouba 27
• Copp 27

And they have two key "kids" that belong on that list: Fox 23 and Shesterkin 25

Sure they've got some good youngsters coming behind them, but don't kid yourself, this is a veteran team.

 

[Porous Five Hole]

I agree that there isn’t a good comparison. @dudacek covered the key Rangers above. Also note that none of them were drafted by NYR. 
 

Maybe because the Rangers picked high in back to back years that it may have been thought of as a rebuild?

Comparing those drafts:

In 2019, the Rangers drafted Kakko second overall. He is 21 years old, has 26 goals/58 pts in 157 games so far, and isn’t a liability out there. He plays wing. 
 

Sabres took Cozens at seventh overall. He is 21 years old, and has 17 goals/51 pts in 120 games. He plays center. 
 

I would rather have Cozens because he plays center and will be harder to play against. 
 

in 2020, the Rangers drafted Lafreniere first overall. He will turn 21 around the start of next season, has 31 goals in 135 games so far, and also isn’t a liability out there. He plays wing. 
 

Sabres took Quinn eighth overall. The winger had a huge year in the A, 61 pts in 45 games. 
 

I guess I’ll take Alex if I had to choose today, but that isn’t #1 overall production so far. We shall see how they both look in 2022-23. 
 

The Sabres high picks in their most recent rebuild are Dahlin/Power and not two wingers. 
 

Even if you tried to compare the GM’s since they’re newish, Drury inherited a much more talented/veteran team to add to. He’s been on the job for almost one year. 
GMKA was tearing down as soon as the acquisitions of Hall/Staal flopped. So really nothing to compare there either. 

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

I don't see a good comparison here.

The Rangers best players are:

• Panarin 29
• Zibanejad 28
• Kreider 30
• Strome 28
• Trouba 27
• Copp 27

And they have two key "kids" that belong on that list: Fox 23 and Shesterkin 25

Sure they've got some good youngsters coming behind them, but don't kid yourself, this is a veteran team.

 

I agree with you that it is difficult/unfair to compare these two teams. Looking at your list of Ranger players and then including the highly drafted young players to that group it isn't unreasonable to believe that the Rangers can be a seriously contending team for at least the next few years. And if you consider that NY is a favored destination for many players, and they have an elite young goalie, this Gotham team is in a good situation for the foreseeable future. Another asset that this franchise has is that it is more willing to spend to the cap ceiling than the Sabres are. (I'm not saying this as a criticism but it is a factor in maintaining a high-yield roster.)

[JohnC]

4 hours ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

Maybe the Rangers' success will force GMKA to value goaltending more -- preferably like I do.

You ask a penetrating question in how much does KA value the position? On that question I really don't know for sure. We should get a better feel about that question this offseason. The mere fact that I'm not sure what the answer is makes me queasy. 

[Pimlach]

The Rangers are significantly ahead in the rebuild and have a very good mix of veterans and youth.   

Drury did not inherit a cultural mess due to the poorly executed tank like Adams did.   

The Rangers are smart to address goalie first.  A great goalie covers up a lot of flaws.   We have not had a good goalie since Miller.  It is shocking to say that.  

Granato is doing a fine job but it remains to be seen if he can get us to a playoff winning level.  Gallant is proven and is knocking on the Cup door once again.  I dont' buy into the crap that Gallant cannot coach  young talent.  At the NHL level the coaches job is to get ALL the players playing their best.   Gallant has done that before and he is doing it again.  

Lets see what Adams does in the off season to push this team to contend for playoff slots 7/8 in the Conference.  It is time to start winning and I am dam tired of hearing about "blockers of our potential talent", we still need a fair number of better players.  Improving the team can be possible without blowing the cap.  

Finally, I am tired of an empty arena and being irrelevant.  

 

[JohnC]

11 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

The Rangers are significantly ahead in the rebuild and have a very good mix of veterans and youth.   

Drury did not inherit a cultural mess due to the poorly executed tank like Adams did.   

The Rangers are smart to address goalie first.  A great goalie covers up a lot of flaws.   We have not had a good goalie since Miller.  It is shocking to say that.  

Granato is doing a fine job but it remains to be seen if he can get us to a playoff winning level.  Gallant is proven and is knocking on the Cup door once again.  I dont' buy into the crap that Gallant cannot coach  young talent.  At the NHL level the coaches job is to get ALL the players playing their best.   Gallant has done that before and he is doing it again.  

Lets see what Adams does in the off season to push this team to contend for playoff slots 7/8 in the Conference.  It is time to start winning and I am dam tired of hearing about "blockers of our potential talent", we still need a fair number of better players.  Improving the team can be possible without blowing the cap.  

Finally, I am tired of an empty arena and being irrelevant.  

 

Who made the claim that Gallant can't coach young talent? 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Who made the claim that Gallant can't coach young talent? 

It’s been said here numerous times that Gallant might not be the right coach for a young team.  I’m not going to comb through years of posts to name names.  We are talking about the Rangers rebuild compared to ours.  I think the Rangers hired a proven coach and here he is again in the final 4.  

Edited June 3, 2022 by Pimlach

[JohnC]

54 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

It’s been said here numerous times that Gallant might not be the right coach for a young team.  I’m not going to comb through years of posts to name names.  We are talking about the Rangers rebuild compared to ours.  I think the Rangers hired a proven coach and here he is again in the final 4.  

There is no question that the Gallant has done an exceptional job for the Rangers. But that doesn't mean that he would have been a better coach for the Sabres with the situation they were in. It is difficult to prove that one way or the other whether how he would have done with the Sabres. What we do know for sure is that after Granato took over for Krueger all the players, young and old, played better under him. All you can ask for in any coach is for that coach to maximize the talent he has to work with.  

[PerreaultForever]

9 hours ago, JohnC said:

The GM hired the right man for the job with the Granato signing. In no way am I diminishing the job that Gallant has done with the Rangers. He's done an excellent job in NY. Granato's greatest strength as a coach is developing young talent. Much of his coaching experience before assuming the HC position revolved around working with young players and prospects. My point is that Granato was the right person at the right time in the right circumstance when he was hired here. The same can be said for Gallant in NY. In making the comparison it isn't so much who is the better coach as it is who is the better fit. Buffalo got it right; and so did the Rangers. 

I'm not convinced hiring Granato was some sort of genius move by KA. I still believe they went cheap and in house and it was a low risk option in that the building plan was laid out to take several years. Now, that's not to say Granato won't be a spectacular coach, but he wasn't a proven commodity at this level. Gallant on the other hand has a resume of success. Unbelievable success in fact. It's possible he doesn't play well with owners and upper management (much like old Ted Nolan) but his coaching success is undeniable. Granato doesn't have a winning season under his belt yet. 

[Carmel Corn]

6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I'm not convinced hiring Granato was some sort of genius move by KA. I still believe they went cheap and in house and it was a low risk option in that the building plan was laid out to take several years. Now, that's not to say Granato won't be a spectacular coach, but he wasn't a proven commodity at this level. Gallant on the other hand has a resume of success. Unbelievable success in fact. It's possible he doesn't play well with owners and upper management (much like old Ted Nolan) but his coaching success is undeniable. Granato doesn't have a winning season under his belt yet. 

I'd like to know how many Vegas fans (and maybe players) who wish they would have kept Gallant.

[JohnC]

6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I'm not convinced hiring Granato was some sort of genius move by KA. I still believe they went cheap and in house and it was a low risk option in that the building plan was laid out to take several years. Now, that's not to say Granato won't be a spectacular coach, but he wasn't a proven commodity at this level. Gallant on the other hand has a resume of success. Unbelievable success in fact. It's possible he doesn't play well with owners and upper management (much like old Ted Nolan) but his coaching success is undeniable. Granato doesn't have a winning season under his belt yet. 

First, let's stop making assertions against arguments that weren't made (at least by me). No one is arguing that Gallant isn't a good coach. He is. The hiring of Granato to replace Krueger was not a genius move (as you describe). It was an in-house interim replacement of a coach whose team quit on him. He was hired within the season to stem the copious bleeding of a nearly dead carcass of a team. It was a temporary measure to get by for the rest of the lost season. 

As it turned out the young team responded to the Italian coach with cool blue framed glasses. The quality of play improved and the style of play became much more palatable to watch. He was hired as the HC in the offseason based on how well he worked with the roster he inherited. Every player under him, young and old, played better for him than they did under the previous coach who shackled his players. He was hired as the HC based on his performance from the previous year. 

Is Granato going to be a spectacular coach? Let's not get carried away. How many spectacular coaches are in this league? The spectacular coach in one year can become the fired coach in the next year. The crazy life cycle of a coach is unpredictable and can be quickly upended with an in-season slump. 

The overhanging question is: Will Granato be an effective coach when he is working with a more complete and mature roster? I think so but can't say for sure. That issue will be better clarified once this team gets to the point that it is playing meaningful games throughout the season. When all is said and done the issue comes down to how much talent do you have. We are not there yet. 

 

 

 

[Wyldnwoody44]

I wonder how it would have looked, had we traded Eichel to the Rags for Chytill and other random pieces that were floated around here. 

[bob_sauve28]

48 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

I'd like to know how many Vegas fans (and maybe players) who wish they would have kept Gallant.

And Tuch! 

[bob_sauve28]

20 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

I wonder how it would have looked, had we traded Eichel to the Rags for Chytill and other random pieces that were floated around here. 

Drury didn't seem to want any part of Eichel. Drury seems to know what he is doing