Forwards Next Season

[Brawndo]

3 hours ago, sabresparaavida said:

He is a Rfa and will likely cost something in the neighborhood of 7-8.5 million per season. In terms of cost… pretty tough to say. My guess would be something along the lines of mitts, Johnson, the Vegas pick and maybe Portillo. (Similar pieces amount to the Eichel trade but likely lower quality) 

I don’t think I would want to give up what it would take to get him, as it would probably take one of our young Centers++. Either that or 9OA+.

Dubois is 152 days older than Casey and has been much more productive. 

He turns 24 in June putting Him on the same timeline as many of the the Sabres Core Players

To get 7-8.5 Million His Deal probably would be 7 Years making Him a Sabre until He is 31. 
 

If the deal is Mitts, 16OA, Johnson and Portillo and the latter have told the Sabres they are not signing, the deal essentially becomes Mitts, 16OA in 2022 and 63OA in 2024 (Compensatory Pick if Johnson doesn’t sign) 

The downside to the trade is that Mitts is cost controlled for two more years than PLD, but will He reach PLD’s Level of Production? 
Also one of the reasons PLD gave for leaving Columbus was wanting to play for a team with more exposure. I doubt the Sabres, particularly with the Bills in the same city fit that criteria. 

[dudacek]

I'm not sure if Dubois the person is a fit.

Dubois the player is certainly someone I'm willing to invest assets and cap space in to add to the core.

[Buffalonill]

8 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Can you back this up with evidence? 

He quit on his team and forced a trade and is going to be on his 3rd team in 5 years 

[Curt]

1 hour ago, Buffalonill said:

He quit on his team and forced a trade and is going to be on his 3rd team in 5 years 

If PLD goes to another team this offseason, that would make it 3 teams in 3 seasons.

[jsb]

 

On 5/28/2022 at 6:57 AM, jsb said:

I don't disagree with you but with both of these guys being played primarily as RWs, who do you sit?? VO, Tuch, Okposo are your RWs at the moment, if you play both kids which of them sits?? You have Skinner, Krebs and Girgensons on the left side and possibly Asplund. I don't see see Okposo or Girgensons lasting much after their contracts run out but are you going to rid yourself of their veteran leadership after the job they did last year? It's a good problem to have after years of underperforming forwards but with the 2 kids both not having to pass thru waivers, my guess is one of them is going to start the year in Rochester until injuries hit or some type of trades we don't foresee at the moment happens. 

 

On 5/28/2022 at 9:23 AM, GASabresIUFAN said:

VO moves back to LW and Girgensons moves to center.  That leaves R2 as the floater who fills in on any line in case of injury or if a kid like Quinn or JJP goes through a rough patch and needs a few games in the press box.

On 5/28/2022 at 10:59 AM, dudacek said:

Quinn and Peterka each played primarily on their off hand, but each is comfortable on both sides. 

Most Sabres forwards play multiple positions.

12 forward dress: Right now, Thompson, Tuch, Skinner, Okposo, Olofsson, Mittelstadt, Cozens, Girgensons, Asplund, Krebs, Quinn, Peterka is 12

My babysitting my 3 year old granddaughter job is done so I'm coming back to this. With the projected lineup as of today according to you 2, we'll have 4 rookies (Quinn-Peterka-UPL-Power) plus 3 other players (Krebs-Samuelsson-Fitzgerald) with less than a full season in the NHL. After the end of the season rush, do you really think with 1/3 of your lineup virtually being rookies that we'll have a real chance to move up in the standings or are we in for another season where the playoffs are just a dream scenario again?? 

It's not that I don't think they'll all play this year at one point or another but unless Thompson-Skinner wasn't a 1 year wonder and Mitts doesn't come back to being the player we all hope he'll become, it may be entertaining to watch the young guys develop but a winning season seems farfetched to me. I still have my rose colored glasses on and I think we're on the right path for a change but I don't think I can handle another 70 something point season which is most likely to happen with that lineup in place. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 hours ago, jsb said:

 

 

My babysitting my 3 year old granddaughter job is done so I'm coming back to this. With the projected lineup as of today according to you 2, we'll have 4 rookies (Quinn-Peterka-UPL-Power) plus 3 other players (Krebs-Samuelsson-Fitzgerald) with less than a full season in the NHL. After the end of the season rush, do you really think with 1/3 of your lineup virtually being rookies that we'll have a real chance to move up in the standings or are we in for another season where the playoffs are just a dream scenario again?? 

It's not that I don't think they'll all play this year at one point or another but unless Thompson-Skinner wasn't a 1 year wonder and Mitts doesn't come back to being the player we all hope he'll become, it may be entertaining to watch the young guys develop but a winning season seems farfetched to me. I still have my rose colored glasses on and I think we're on the right path for a change but I don't think I can handle another 70 something point season which is most likely to happen with that lineup in place. 

Yes

[JohnC]

5 hours ago, jsb said:

 

 

My babysitting my 3 year old granddaughter job is done so I'm coming back to this. With the projected lineup as of today according to you 2, we'll have 4 rookies (Quinn-Peterka-UPL-Power) plus 3 other players (Krebs-Samuelsson-Fitzgerald) with less than a full season in the NHL. After the end of the season rush, do you really think with 1/3 of your lineup virtually being rookies that we'll have a real chance to move up in the standings or are we in for another season where the playoffs are just a dream scenario again?? 

It's not that I don't think they'll all play this year at one point or another but unless Thompson-Skinner wasn't a 1 year wonder and Mitts doesn't come back to being the player we all hope he'll become, it may be entertaining to watch the young guys develop but a winning season seems farfetched to me. I still have my rose colored glasses on and I think we're on the right path for a change but I don't think I can handle another 70 something point season which is most likely to happen with that lineup in place. 

After looking at the list of young players you cited my takeaway is more positive than your takeaway. Because of that rookie list (some of whom have had a taste of NHL play) added to the young players that are already on the team makes me more optimistic than ever. All these young players are going to get better. The hope is that players such as Cozens, Mitts and Samuelsson who already demonstrated that they can play in this league have also shown enough potential to become quality established players. I strongly believe that next season is going to be a leap year for Cozens and Mitts. According to the head coach Mitts was the best player in last year's training camp. That has to be encouraging. 

The smart thing that this organization has done this past offseason is give players such as Power. Quinn and Krebs a taste of NHL play. It should serve them well for next season. The end of the season games that Power played demonstrated to me that not only does he have the talent to be a top pair caliber of player but he also has the potential to be an upper echelon player in this league for a long time. 

After being subjected to a brutal number of injuries that depleted their ranks the roster finally got healthy for the last third of the season. The play qualitatively got better and the record quantitatively got better. I don't think it is unfair that this franchise is at the point where there is a critical mass of talent that enables this team to compete with everyone. We certainly are not an upper echelon team but we are moving up the ranks and becoming a serious team.  

The need for a goalie upgrade has been rehashed to the point of exhaustion. However, if the GM can adequately address that position and with a few additional tweaks, which should include bringing in a solid to good defenseman, then I consider it realistic that this team can be competing for a lower rung playoff spot throughout the season. That in itself would be a dramatic change for the better. 

 

[Buffalonill]

13 hours ago, Curt said:

If PLD goes to another team this offseason, that would make it 3 teams in 3 seasons.

Makes it look worse.

That shoots up some red flags 

[GASabresIUFAN]

@jsb  While this is a forward thread, I don't think we have to worry about the "rookies."  Last season we added kids Bryson, Samuelsson, Fitzgerald, and Krebs who pushed out JAG veterans and we got better.  This season we'll add Power, JJP, Quinn and UPL pushing out more JAG vets like Miller, Tokarski, Eakin and Bjork and we'll get better again.  

Sure the team will be young.  That's the point.  They continue to grow together and improve as a team.  We have done this before with success.  If you go back to the 2005/6 team they added Vanek, Miller, Pominville and Gaustad and got substantially better.

[dudacek]

I don't have an answer for you and I don't think your skepticism is without warrant. There are too many question marks.

Draft and develop is based around players within the system getting better. Last year was incredibly successful on that front and there is no guarantee that will repeat

Year 1: Tage and Dahlin emerged, Skinner and Okposo bounced back strong, Tuch and Olofsson has their best seasons, minus injuries. Krebs, Samuelsson, Bryson and Ftizgerald graduated into the lineup.

Year 2: Will the above group sustain? Can we see jumps from Krebs, Bryson Samuelsson and Fitzgerald, as well as Cozens, Jokiharju, Asplund and Mittelstad? Power, Quinn, Peterka, Luukkonnen and possibly Ruotsalainen are expected to graduate. Will they and how much can they bring?

And none of that even touches on the hole in goal.

I expect our kids to get better, but not without bumps in the road.

6 hours ago, jsb said:

 

 

My babysitting my 3 year old granddaughter job is done so I'm coming back to this. With the projected lineup as of today according to you 2, we'll have 4 rookies (Quinn-Peterka-UPL-Power) plus 3 other players (Krebs-Samuelsson-Fitzgerald) with less than a full season in the NHL. After the end of the season rush, do you really think with 1/3 of your lineup virtually being rookies that we'll have a real chance to move up in the standings or are we in for another season where the playoffs are just a dream scenario again?? 

It's not that I don't think they'll all play this year at one point or another but unless Thompson-Skinner wasn't a 1 year wonder and Mitts doesn't come back to being the player we all hope he'll become, it may be entertaining to watch the young guys develop but a winning season seems farfetched to me. I still have my rose colored glasses on and I think we're on the right path for a change but I don't think I can handle another 70 something point season which is most likely to happen with that lineup in place. 

 

Edited May 30, 2022 by dudacek

[freester]

It’s all about the Goaltending!!!  We need to fix that. Our forwards are fine and I’m OK with resigning Vinnie. If we have to trade VO to get a quality G that’s ok.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

6 hours ago, freester said:

It’s all about the Goaltending!!!  We need to fix that. Our forwards are fine and I’m OK with resigning Vinnie. If we have to trade VO to get a quality G that’s ok.  

Ultimately the goaltending needs to be fixed for this team to truly compete, but I think even the status quo forward group will be markedly improved over last year even if Thompson takes a small step back.  

For the first time since 2005/6 and 6/7, we'll be able to roll 4 lines consistently that can score.  Even if your "4th line" is a bunch of kids, they'll be a match up problem for the vast majority of teams, much like the Vanek Roy Max line back in 2005/6.   That line scored 65 goal and added 102 assists. 

Our forwards last year scored 201 goals.  Only 15 of those 201 goals aren't returning.  If Vinnie leaves that means 28 goals are departing.  Those are easily replaced.  Tuch, Mitts and Krebs all played only 1/2 to 5/8 of last season for the Sabres scoring 25 goals.  That number will at least double if they play the full season.  Now add full seasons of JJP and Quinn to the mix.  Quinn has a cannon and JJP is no slouch shooting the puck.   Seth Jarvis potted 17 for Carolina this season as a rookie and Lundell 18 for the Panthers.  Both were drafted after Quinn.  I think Jarvis is a very comparable player to Quinn.  Can we pencil in Quinn for 15 and JJP for 12?  What if Cozens takes a big step forward and his goal jump from 13 to 20+.   Ultimately this forward group IMHO has the potential to score 235 to 240 goals next season, keyed by a healthy Mitts, an improved Cozens and the addition of Quinn.

Just think, losing Hayden, Caggiula, Bjork, Jankowski and Eakin only costs us 15 goals.

Edited May 30, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[matter2003]

If ever there was a time to target RFA's this is it...we have the most cap space in the NHL and will need to add money just to reach the floor.  

Pierre Luc-Dubois from Winnipeg would be a nice fit but I would really like to see them make a run for Jason Robertson of Dallas...young stud that would fit well with the youth movement here...79 points including 41 goals.

[sabresparaavida]

18 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

If ever there was a time to target RFA's this is it...we have the most cap space in the NHL and will need to add money just to reach the floor.  

Pierre Luc-Dubois from Winnipeg would be a nice fit but I would really like to see them make a run for Jason Robertson of Dallas...young stud that would fit well with the youth movement here...79 points including 41 goals.

We would need our 3rd for next year back to offer sheet someone, unless you want to give up 4 firsts. 

[matter2003]

2 minutes ago, sabresparaavida said:

We would need our 3rd for next year back to offer sheet someone, unless you want to give up 4 firsts. 

Ugh...can they trade for a third with another team and use theirs?

[Sabel79]

2 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Ugh...can they trade for a third with another team and use theirs?

Nope, has to be your own.

[dudacek]

Pick is in the possession of the Vegas Golden Knights. Suspect it would be pretty easy to get back.

Doubt the Sabres will be offer sheeting anyone, but there will never be a better time to try.

[Curt]

If the offer sheet is for less than $4.1M then they don’t need their 3rd for it.  Compensation for that is a 2nd.

[sabresparaavida]

14 minutes ago, Curt said:

If the offer sheet is for less than $4.1M then they don’t need their 3rd for it.  Compensation for that is a 2nd.

Yeah, I was more or less referring to Robertson/Dubois. 

[Brawndo]

19 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

He quit on his team and forced a trade and is going to be on his 3rd team in 5 years 

Are you referring to the game against Tampa, where PLD was benched for the final two periods by Torts?

The Game that came approximately seven days after Tortorella made Dubois Trade Request Public much to the Team and Players Camp Chagrin? 
 

Tortorella was the one who decided to put this into the public spotlight, but Hey it’s the best player on the team’s fault and not the coach who’s contract was not renewed less than five months later. 

 

17 hours ago, Curt said:

If PLD goes to another team this offseason, that would make it 3 teams in 3 seasons.

Marek and Friedman were discussing Dubois’s Future with the Jets and the reason the Jets might be looking to move Dubois is He is hesitant to sign a long term deal and prefers a shorter term deal as Scheifele, Connor, Ehlers and Hellebuyck are signed for 4 Years or Less. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Given what we have seen from KA, do you really believe he'd make a run a PLD or anyone similar.  If you said he'll make a run at Dumba or Subban or whomever on defense, I'd be more inclined to agree that he'd might do it, but not at forward.  

[dudacek]

9 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Given what we have seen from KA, do you really believe he'd make a run a PLD or anyone similar.  If you said he'll make a run at Dumba or Subban or whomever on defense, I'd be more inclined to agree that he'd might do it, but not at forward.  

I don't have any insight into off-ice and re-signing questions, but I'd say Tuch is strong evidence that Adams is willing to take on a 23-year-old forward with the intent of adding him to the core.

[GASabresIUFAN]

55 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I don't have any insight into off-ice and re-signing questions, but I'd say Tuch is strong evidence that Adams is willing to take on a 23-year-old forward with the intent of adding him to the core.

But he traded a core piece, Eichel, to get 2 core pieces in Tuch and Krebs.  This time he'd have to give up VO and other assets to acquire PLD or Fiala or someone similar.  I'm disinclined to think that he'd ready to give us his 1st rd picks or other young assets to get PLD. 

[Brawndo]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Given what we have seen from KA, do you really believe he'd make a run a PLD or anyone similar.  If you said he'll make a run at Dumba or Subban or whomever on defense, I'd be more inclined to agree that he'd might do it, but not at forward.  

 

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

But he traded a core piece, Eichel, to get 2 core pieces in Tuch and Krebs.  This time he'd have to give up VO and other assets to acquire PLD or Fiala or someone similar.  I'm disinclined to think that he'd ready to give us his 1st rd picks or other young assets to get PLD. 

 

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

I don't have any insight into off-ice and re-signing questions, but I'd say Tuch is strong evidence that Adams is willing to take on a 23-year-old forward with the intent of adding him to the core.

I fully expect Adams to look at every possible scenario to improve the Sabres.

Adams could look at the season and feel the team has taken bigger strides than expected and feel adding a player of the age and caliber of PLD is worth it particularly at the Center Position.

I imagine  Adams and His Staff will ask the following questions 
 

Is Dubois an improvement at Center over Cozens, Mitts or Krebs? 
Is the cost of acquiring Dubois something The Sabres willing to pay? 

Does PLD fit in with the team we are building here? 

Would PLD be willing to sign a deal with a minimum term of five years with Buffalo?

I really like how VO has improved over the season and has developed into a very good all around player. That being said I wouldn’t hesitate to move Him in a deal for a younger asset (Top 6 Center, RHD or Goalie) 

 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

 

 

I fully expect Adams to look at every possible scenario to improve the Sabres.

Adams could look at the season and feel the team has taken bigger strides than expected and feel adding a player of the age and caliber of PLD is worth it particularly at the Center Position.

I imagine  Adams and His Staff will ask the following questions 
 

Is Dubois an improvement at Center over Cozens, Mitts or Krebs? 
Is the cost of acquiring Dubois something The Sabres willing to pay? 

Does PLD fit in with the team we are building here? 

Would PLD be willing to sign a deal with a minimum term of five years with Buffalo?

I really like how VO has improved over the season and has developed into a very good all around player. That being said I wouldn’t hesitate to move Him in a deal for a younger asset (Top 6 Center, RHD or Goalie) 

 

Shouldn’t the cost of Dubois be very similar to what the Sabres gave up to get O’Reilly in 2015?

I mean the scenarios are very similar: 60 point centre just entering his prime who brings more than points but comes with some “trade me” baggage?

I think the Jets would be asking for at least one of Cozens/Krebs/Quinn/Peterka 

But I also think Zadorov/Grigorenko/Compher/Pick 31 translates better to 4 of Isak Rosen/Pick 16/Ryan Johnson/Prokhor Poltapov/Pick 28/Pick 41/Erik Portillo especially when you remember the Sabres also got Jamie McGinn in that deal.

I wonder what the Jets would think of a Mitts/Olofsson-based package if they were more interested in current pieces?

If they just want futures, I doubt anyone would beat an offer of 9 and 16. If I was comfortable with Dubois’ want-to-be-here level, I’d think I’d make it.

Edited May 31, 2022 by dudacek