Forwards Next Season

[GASabresIUFAN]

I don't think I started this thread previously, but there seems to be considerable debate in other threads about who to bring back and whether the kids (JJP and Quinn) are ready and does R2 still have a chance.

A couple of things have "changed already since the end of the season.  Asplund became Sweden's best goal scoring thread at the Worlds.  R2 and JPP were awesome in the Amerks' playoff run while Quinn disappeared for reasons unknown.  Krebs was also very solid for the Amerks in the playoffs.

I know it's been mentioned before(including by me), but KA really doesn't have to do really anything to the forward group to field a young and up and coming group. 

At center: Thompson, Mittelstadt, Cozens and Girgensons are all under contract.

At RW:  Okposo, Tuch, Quinn (AHL) and JJP (AHL) are under contract.

At LW: Skinner, Asplund, Krebs and Bjork are also under contract.

The only significant RFAs are winger VO (NHL) and C/LW Routsalaien (AHL), whose inspired playoff might have earned him another shot in Buffalo in the fall.

Vinnie Hinostroza in the only UFA of note and I'd like to see him back, but with 14 forwards under contract or control, odds against him returning might be long.

There is also chatter here about bringing in a real center to anchor KO's two way line.  There is also a legit question about how management views Asplund, who is the Sabres best defensive forward, but may still have more offense to give.  Mitts' and Cozens still to prove themselves. 

The simplest option for KA is to stick with what he has by re-signing R2 and VO and let guys like Bjork and R2 prove in camp there are worthy of an NHL roster spot.  Honestly, I have both Quinn and JJP penned into the roster to open next season.  

The status quo forward group

Skinner Thompson Tuch

VO Mitts Quinn/JJP

Asplund Girgensons KO

Krebs Cozens JJP/Quinn

R2 Bjork

Any interest in VO for Fiala?  

Edited May 31, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[sabresparaavida]

There would likely have to be a considerable add to Oloffson to get Fiala. I’m not a huge fan of trading Oloffson this offseason, I think his value will go up a lot next year. 
 

id still want one very good middle 6er added for the sake of injuries and in case JJP or quinn need a little more seasoning. (Burkakovsky, Copp)

[thewookie1]

24 minutes ago, sabresparaavida said:

There would likely have to be a considerable add to Oloffson to get Fiala. I’m not a huge fan of trading Oloffson this offseason, I think his value will go up a lot next year. 
 

id still want one very good middle 6er added for the sake of injuries and in case JJP or quinn need a little more seasoning. (Burkakovsky, Copp)

Pretty much this

I'd love Copp as a mid 6 player to add his size and strength to the lineup. 

Otherwise I don't mind the idea of Hornqvist for a year to give us a Cup winning vet that plays rough and can teach net front play.

[GASabresIUFAN]

6 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Pretty much this

I'd love Copp as a mid 6 player to add his size and strength to the lineup. 

Otherwise I don't mind the idea of Hornqvist for a year to give us a Cup winning vet that plays rough and can teach net front play.

Copp as an upgrade on at center I ok with, but how does Hornqvist upgrade this roster?  Also if you add guys like Hornqvist and Copp who are you removing?  Right now we are 10 NHL forwards under contract plus VO (RFA) and 2 stud rookies in Quinn and JJP.  That's 13 forwards right there, besides Bjork, whom are you dumping or sending back down?  VO? the kids? Asplund? Veteran leaders like Girgensons?

If we have learned anything about KA this past season, he isn't moving on from young guys under contract.  I also don't think he wants to mess with the chemistry established this past season.  Obviously that doesn't leave much room for change, but maybe that isn't a bad thing.

[thewookie1]

13 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Copp as an upgrade on at center I ok with, but how does Hornqvist upgrade this roster?  Also if you add guys like Hornqvist and Copp who are you removing?  Right now we are 10 NHL forwards under contract plus VO (RFA) and 2 stud rookies in Quinn and JJP.  That's 13 forwards right there, besides Bjork, whom are you dumping or sending back down?  VO? the kids? Asplund? Veteran leaders like Girgensons?

If we have learned anything about KA this past season, he isn't moving on from young guys under contract.  I also don't think he wants to mess with the chemistry established this past season.  Obviously that doesn't leave much room for change, but maybe that isn't a bad thing.

Honestly I'm just wanting a bit of competition for Asplund/Quinn/Peterka and Bjork doesn't count. But it has to be a specific type of piece. Hornqvist is more for his net front work and even more so for his Cup Rings.

Copp strikes me as another Tuch-like player that could seriously give our Top 6 some size with skill that isn't a rookie.

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

6 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Honestly I'm just wanting a bit of competition for Asplund/Quinn/Peterka and Bjork doesn't count. But it has to be a specific type of piece. Hornqvist is more for his net front work and even more so for his Cup Rings.

Copp strikes me as another Tuch-like player that could seriously give our Top 6 some size with skill that isn't a rookie.

 

Like I said, Copp would be a fine addition, but in the end we stlll lack that dynamic forward that can carry a team like McDavid or MacKinnon.  That doesn't mean we can win.  Stl won a Cup with a 4 line forward group whose most dynamic player was ROR.  If they can do it so can we.  The good news is that I see upper echelon potential in Quinn, JJP and even Mitts, who has another level to his game.  

[dudacek]

Here’s the thing about minor league hockey:

Everyone down there is told it’s a merit system: work hard, be a good teammate, produce and you will earn your ticket to the show.

Everything we’ve seen and heard about Jack Quinn and JJ Peterka is that their coachability and their work ethic is off the charts. And their production - I’m going to keep saying this - is pretty much unprecedented.

I don’t understand how you can look these two in the eye after what they’ve done this year and tell them they have not earned their shot.

To me, that’s counterproductive to everything you are trying to build.

[Marvin]

22 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I don't think I started this thread previously, but there seems to be considerable debate in other threads about who to bring back and whether the kids (JJP and Quinn) are ready and does R2 still have a chance.

A couple of things have "changed already since the end of the season.  Asplund became Sweden's best goal scoring thread at the Worlds.  R2 and JPP were awesome in the Amerks' playoff run while Quinn disappeared for reasons unknown.  Krebs was also very solid for the Amerks in the playoffs.

I know it's been mentioned before(including by me), but KA really doesn't have to do really anything to the forward group to field a young and up and coming group. 

At center: Thompson, Mittelstadt, Cozens and Girgensons are all under contract.

At RW:  Okposo, Tuch, Quinn (AHL) and JJP (AHL) are under contract.

At LW: Skinner, Asplund, Krebs and Bjork are also under contract.

The only significant RFAs are winger VO (NHL) and C/LW Routsalaien (AHL), whose inspired playoff might have earned him another shot in Buffalo in the fall.

Vinnie Hinostroza in the only UFA of note and I'd like to see him back, but with 14 forwards under contract or control, odds against him returning might be long.

There is also chatter here about bringing in a real center to anchor KO's two way line.  There is also a legit question about how management views Asplund, who is the Sabres best defensive forward, but may still have more offense to give.  Mitts' and Cozens still to prove themselves. 

The simplest option for KA is to stick with what he has by re-signing R2 and VO and let guys like Bjork and R2 prove in camp there are worthy of an NHL roster spot.  Honestly, I have both Quinn and JJP penned into the roster to open next season.  

The status quo forward group

Skinner Thompson Tuch

VO Mitts Quinn/JJP

Asplund Girgensons KO

Krebs Cozens JJP/Quinn

R2 Bjork

Any interest in VO for Fiala?  

At the very least, you would send Bjork to the minors and resign Hinostroza.

We would have to add quite a bit to get Fiala.

[dudacek]

Karmanos was cagey early in his Amerks year-end presser about Peterka and Quinn having to do the right things in summer and in training camp in order to make the Sabres.

But later on he talked about the need to replace them with the Amerks because when guys have seasons that good you “expect them to graduate.”

As far as R2 goes “by the end of the year it was very clear he had taken a step.”

”Based in the way he finished the year he’s going to push very hard for a job with the Sabres.”

[jsb]

5 hours ago, dudacek said:

Karmanos was cagey early in his Amerks year-end presser about Peterka and Quinn having to do the right things in summer and in training camp in order to make the Sabres.

But later on he talked about the need to replace them with the Amerks because when guys have seasons that good you “expect them to graduate.”

I don't disagree with you but with both of these guys being played primarily as RWs, who do you sit?? VO, Tuch, Okposo are your RWs at the moment, if you play both kids which of them sits?? You have Skinner, Krebs and Girgensons on the left side and possibly Asplund. I don't see see Okposo or Girgensons lasting much after their contracts run out but are you going to rid yourself of their veteran leadership after the job they did last year? It's a good problem to have after years of underperforming forwards but with the 2 kids both not having to pass thru waivers, my guess is one of them is going to start the year in Rochester until injuries hit or some type of trades we don't foresee at the moment happens. 

[matter2003]

I'd love to target an RFA on a team that has no hope of matching him...

Pierre Luc-Dubois from the Jets would fit in nicely...big power forward that can score.

Jason Robertson from the Stars would be an amazing get...dude is trapped there in a defensive system and still putting up big numbers.

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, jsb said:

I don't disagree with you but with both of these guys being played primarily as RWs, who do you sit?? VO, Tuch, Okposo are your RWs at the moment, if you play both kids which of them sits?? You have Skinner, Krebs and Girgensons on the left side and possibly Asplund. I don't see see Okposo or Girgensons lasting much after their contracts run out but are you going to rid yourself of their veteran leadership after the job they did last year? It's a good problem to have after years of underperforming forwards but with the 2 kids both not having to pass thru waivers, my guess is one of them is going to start the year in Rochester until injuries hit or some type of trades we don't foresee at the moment happens. 

VO moves back to LW and Girgensons moves to center.  That leaves R2 as the floater who fills in on any line in case of injury or if a kid like Quinn or JJP goes through a rough patch and needs a few games in the press box.

[dudacek]

3 hours ago, jsb said:

I don't disagree with you but with both of these guys being played primarily as RWs, who do you sit?? VO, Tuch, Okposo are your RWs at the moment, if you play both kids which of them sits?? You have Skinner, Krebs and Girgensons on the left side and possibly Asplund. I don't see see Okposo or Girgensons lasting much after their contracts run out but are you going to rid yourself of their veteran leadership after the job they did last year? It's a good problem to have after years of underperforming forwards but with the 2 kids both not having to pass thru waivers, my guess is one of them is going to start the year in Rochester until injuries hit or some type of trades we don't foresee at the moment happens. 

Quinn and Peterka each played primarily on their off hand, but each is comfortable on both sides. 

Most Sabres forwards play multiple positions.

12 forward dress: Right now, Thompson, Tuch, Skinner, Okposo, Olofsson, Mittelstadt, Cozens, Girgensons, Asplund, Krebs, Quinn, Peterka is 12

[dudacek]

Bjork, Hayden, Eakin and Hinostroza all played regularly for the Sabres last season.

Caggiula and Jankowski were also part of the picture.

Only Bjork is under contract for next year and none of us would shed a tear if he were waived.

There are at least 4 spots up for grabs up front to open next season. I will be very surprised and disappointed if Jack and JJ don’t claim 2 of them.

[Taro T]

39 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Quinn and Peterka each played primarily on their off hand, but each is comfortable on both sides. 

Most Sabres forwards play multiple positions.

12 forward dress: Right now, Thompson, Tuch, Skinner, Okposo, Olofsson, Mittelstadt, Cozens, Girgensons, Asplund, Krebs, Quinn, Peterka is 12

How many injuries should we anticipate next year?  Tuch, Mittelstadt, Olofsson, Hinostroza, Girgensons, & Quinn all missed significant time.  As did Eakin & Caggiula who almost definitely won't be back.  There were probably a couple of other F's that missed time as well that simply aren't coming to mind.  Vinny may not be back either.  My expectation is they'll be down 4 F's at some point & right now they don't have the depth to handle it.

So, w/ your 12, the depth behind them is R2 Rou2, Bjork, & Murray.  (Biro, Weisbach, & Rousek too.) But that isn't exactly a lot of depth.  Adams will definitely bring in some UFA's to fill in the depth behind the top 12.  IMHO, he'll bring in 4 NHL capable UFAs along w/ a handful of AAAA guys that will be signed for Ra-cha-cha, & 2 of those guys are going to either be penciled into the lineup (Hinostroza & a 4C) or will seriously push those other 12 to hang onto jobs.  R2 Rou2 will make a serious push as well.

Quinn played great in the RS & one of the spots is his to lose.  After Peterka's playoff play, he also likely has a spot to lose, but still could see him not being in the opening day lineup.  Wouldn't have any money down on it & will be very happy for him if he's up on day 1, but won't be as shocked as some here will be should he not be there on opening night.

And if Adams doesn't make the moves anticipated above, that'll change the calculus & make JJ close to a lock.

 

And at D am expecting similar.  Expect 2D brought in, 1 a Pysyk (possibly even Pysyk) and a top 4 guy along w/ a bunch of guys to fill out Ra-cha-cha.

[GASabresIUFAN]

FYI:  Cozens is now up to 6g 6a for 12 pts in 9 games into today’s 3rd period, including 2g 1a so far today.

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Bjork, Hayden, Eakin and Hinostroza all played regularly for the Sabres last season.

Caggiula and Jankowski were also part of the picture.

Only Bjork is under contract for next year and none of us would shed a tear if he were waived.

There are at least 4 spots up for grabs up front to open next season. I will be very surprised and disappointed if Jack and JJ don’t claim 2 of them.

Tuch, Krebs, Mitts, Cozens, KO, Asplund, Girgensons, Skinner, and Thompson are all guaranteed, baring injury, to be on the opening day roster.  That's 9.  I guess in theory that leaves four slots, but not really.  VO will be re-signed and gets the 10th slot.  JJP and Quinn are almost certainly going to be on the roster.  That leaves the 13th forward job with RFA R2 and Bjork competing for it.  I doubt they carry 14 forwards.

As I asked Weave, who are you sending packing?  Asplund, our best defensive forward, and Cozens had or are still having great World Championships.  R2 and JPP had excellent playoff runs and were both lethal during the AHL regular season.  We know Mitts has another gear when he scored 17 pts in 22 games to close 2020/21 and scored 13 in his last 20 while injured last season.  Thompson re-launched his career with 38  goals.  Skinner found his scoring touch with 33 goals while having a career high in assists with 30 and tying his career high in points with 63.  Tuch and KO are the team's leaders and among our scoring leaders.  Krebs put up 22 pts in 48 games as a rookie.  Quinn was the AHL rookie of the year and Z has had back to back double digit goal season and is a team leader.  Last but not least, lets no forget VO who came back from injury tied a career high in goals, set career highs in assists and points and was arguably one of our top 3 forwards down the stretch.

This is what we are building on at forward for next season.  Why not just run with it and see where the kids take us?

 

 

Edited May 28, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[Mustache of God]

I am conflicted on bringing back VO and waver between wanting to resign him and trading him. When healthy hes got an elite shot and can be lethal on the power play, however, when playing through an injury he completely fell off the radar.

He seems like a player who would disappear in the playoffs once the whistles get out away and wouldn't take well to the elevated physical play. I've been watching this year's series trying to think about how certain Sabres would stack up and i don't see him doing that.

My inclination is to trade him in a package to bring in a proven playoff performer who plays with some edge.

We also have a cap floor to reach, which makes me think we pass on hinostroza and try to bring in a better forward for a higher, short-term contract. I'd also trade R2 to a club where he'd have a shot at cracking a roster on a bad team. The sabres need to bring in talent, not guys who are good in the AHL.

[Taro T]

24 minutes ago, Mustache of God said:

I am conflicted on bringing back VO and waver between wanting to resign him and trading him. When healthy hes got an elite shot and can be lethal on the power play, however, when playing through an injury he completely fell off the radar.

He seems like a player who would disappear in the playoffs once the whistles get out away and wouldn't take well to the elevated physical play. I've been watching this year's series trying to think about how certain Sabres would stack up and i don't see him doing that.

My inclination is to trade him in a package to bring in a proven playoff performer who plays with some edge.

We also have a cap floor to reach, which makes me think we pass on hinostroza and try to bring in a better forward for a higher, short-term contract. I'd also trade R2 to a club where he'd have a shot at cracking a roster on a bad team. The sabres need to bring in talent, not guys who are good in the AHL.

 

Really don't get the dislike that Olofsson gets around here.  He's not the same guy that could only score PP goals when he 1st made the team.

And, prior to suffering the hand injury, he was the leading scorer when the team was actually playing well & he bounced back at the end of the season as well when he finally healed up. 

[thewookie1]

Why wouldn’t we carry 14 forwards? We typically have.
 

14 F, 7 D and 2 G

 

If Pysyk doesn’t get any offers in the NHL and we upgrade from him; I’d offer him 2.25 mil for 1 year to play in Rochester and bring stability to that train wreck of a D

[Taro T]

7 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Why wouldn’t we carry 14 forwards? We typically have.
 

14 F, 7 D and 2 G

 

If Pysyk doesn’t get any offers in the NHL and we upgrade from him; I’d offer him 2.25 mil for 1 year to play in Rochester and bring stability to that train wreck of a D

Not accurate.

Teams (well, the Sabres definitely, expect it's a league wide trend) tend to carry 8D and only 13F's for at least since prior to covid.  It's way easier to run drills w/ 4 sets of D rather than 3 w/ 1 guy rotating in.

And sliding an extra F through the 4th line is easier than trying to squeeze 2 spares in or creating a 5th line w/ the extra D or double shifting someone.

[thewookie1]

I understand the practice idea but I’d much rather stock more forwards than 2 extra d who won’t play much

[Mustache of God]

26 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 

Really don't get the dislike that Olofsson gets around here.  He's not the same guy that could only score PP goals when he 1st made the team.

And, prior to suffering the hand injury, he was the leading scorer when the team was actually playing well & he bounced back at the end of the season as well when he finally healed up. 

I don't dislike him, when he's on I love watching him. My concerns are about how he'd perform in the playoffs. 

I do expect some shake-up with the forwards this off-season through a trade or what not and really don't know what to expect.

 

[Taro T]

19 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

I understand the practice idea but I’d much rather stock more forwards than 2 extra d who won’t play much

Fair enough.  Your post however read contrary to this take, thus the explanation in the post you quoted.

And the Sabres don't typically have 14/7/2 any longer.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

 

As I asked Weave, who are you sending packing? 

We’ve had this conversation before; teams don’t get through a season with 13 or 14 forwards. Hell, they rarely start a season that way.

Players are always hurt. You plan for that. Last year the Sabres used 22 forwards.

Nobody is going to be sent packing.

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

.  Why not just run with it and see where the kids take us?

I think they will. But they will acquire or re-sign some players for depth.

I agree 10 guys are returning and have jobs for sure. Peterka and Quinn should get the slots that belonged to Bjork and Hinostroza.

Krebs essentially replaced Caggiula, but that still leaves the Eakin and Hayden NHL spots, as well as the R2 and Jankowski call-up spots.

R2 and Bjork will certainly be in the mix there, but they will sign at least 2 more forwards