Mike Myers appeared on Colbert in a Sabres sweater...

[That Aud Smell]

14 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

Again, a simple heads up to the police may have stopped this, just like the authorities in buffalo dealing with a school threat before the tops shooting happened. 

The police were on scene when he crashed his car and "engaged" with him before he entered the school building.

16 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

Guns, culture

good place to start, imo.

[WildCard]

33 minutes ago, Weave said:

Mass shootings are uniquely American.  Mental illness is not uniquely American.  Its not predominately a mental illness issue.  Treating it like it is predominantly a mental illness issue is denying the real problem.

No, they're not. 2019 New Zealand Mosque shootings and the 2011 Norway Attacks to name a few. Especially the latter which is just an insane story.

Edited May 25, 2022 by WildCard

[That Aud Smell]

16 minutes ago, WildCard said:

No, they're not. 2019 New Zealand Mosque shootings and the 2011 Norway Attacks to name a few. Especially the latter which is just an insane story.

they are aberrations in those places. they are endemic here.

[That Aud Smell]

my general feeling is that, for the most part, people are people.

the sorts of people who may, will, can commit these sorts of atrocities are distributed fairly evenly throughout the whole of earth's human population.

then it becomes a matter of whether and to what extent they will have the means to carry out those acts, and perhaps, to a lesser extent, whether and to what extent the culture in which they live will exacerbate whatever sociopathic tendencies they have.

[WildCard]

7 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

they are aberrations in those places. they are endemic here.

Are they? It may seem like it but who knows, I'd be curious to see the numbers. Even if they are they started out just the same here, as one-offs. My point is I don't think you can say it's simply one thing, like gun culture/laws. This stuff happens all over the world in wildly different cultures. It makes it a much more difficult issue to pinpoint.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

In before the inevitable move to the *club*.

These things do happen in other places (NS two years ago was the worst one in Canada, but there have been others), but not to the extent as in the US.

If we assume that there has to be some underlying issue that compels someone to do this ten we have to look at why there are so many more of these mass shootings in the US.  We all know what the answer is ... they can easily get guns in the US and in other places they can't.

The Texas shooter decided to buy two assault rifles (I think assault, but maybe not, but it does not matter) for his 18th birthday.  Just because he could and there were really no questions asked.  A year prior he was threating to shoot up his Highschool.  It was reported and nothing happened.

[Doohicksie]

54 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

What is the real problem? Guns, culture? I'm interested to hear your thoughts 

Honestly?  Awful wealth distribution I think is a significant pressure on a lot of Americans right now.  There is, overall, plenty of wealth to go around.  The problem is it doesn't go around and is too concentrated in too few hands.  Often people who are struggling financially are working full time jobs yet they can't support themselves and their families.  In this nation that's just flat out wrong.

If people didn't face the financial pressures they do, the uncertainties they do, they wouldn't have the type of pressure on them that pushes them past the brink.

Other countries have much more extensive social safety nets.  Yes that includes better mental health care, but also better, more accessible health care in general, better unemployment benefits, better leave benefits, better transit options.

I think toxic masculinity is also an issue.  The thing that makes it unique is that rather than a sense of community the U.S. ethos is one of rugged individualism.  There isn't the right kind of help available to people who need it, and if there was, that cultural ethos makes it harder to ask for it.  I think there's a reason why most of these shooters are men.

Any attempt to address these issues is attacked by politicians and pundits as socialism and a threat to freedom.  But really, if you don't have financial and health care pressures to worry about, doesn't that make you more free?

Edited May 25, 2022 by Doohickie

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Are they? It may seem like it but who knows, I'd be curious to see the numbers. Even if they are they started out just the same here, as one-offs. My point is I don't think you can say it's simply one thing, like gun culture/laws. This stuff happens all over the world in wildly different cultures. It makes it a much more difficult issue to pinpoint.

... I mean, basically everything you wrote is wrong but if I ignore that then sure. 

 

"THeREs ShhOOTiNgS EvvErYWheRe"

yea... 288 is the same as 5.

 

[WildCard]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

... I mean, basically everything you wrote is wrong but if I ignore that then sure. 

 

"THeREs ShhOOTiNgS EvvErYWheRe"

yea... 288 is the same as 5.

 

As usual a joy to interact with. We get it Liger, you're smart and everyone else is dumb.

My post clearly expresses that I'm not sure of the numbers. For someone who routinely freaks out when they think they're misquoted here you are doing the same.

[LGR4GM]

More info

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081

But hey, the US isn't #1,other countries with massive drug issues have higher gun death rates

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/03/24/980838151/gun-violence-deaths-how-the-u-s-compares-to-the-rest-of-the-world

[LGR4GM]

Just now, WildCard said:

As usual a joy to interact with. We get it Liger, you're smart and everyone else is dumb.

My post clearly expresses that I'm not sure of the numbers. For someone who routinely freaks out when they think they're misquoted here you are doing the same.

I didn't misquote you.

"Even if they are they started out just the same here, as one-offs. My point is I don't think you can say it's simply one thing, like gun culture/laws."

It's gun culture and other countries by and large do not have the same mass shooting problem the US has.

[LGR4GM]

Wait I am sorry it is "mental illness" or poverty or anything else. Look up the Dickey amendment. The US has mass shootings because guns are easily accessible and no one in the NRA wants the US to even look at solving the problem.

[WildCard]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

I didn't misquote you.

"Even if they are they started out just the same here, as one-offs. My point is I don't think you can say it's simply one thing, like gun culture/laws."

It's gun culture and other countries by and large do not have the same mass shooting problem the US has.

"Are they? It may seem like it but who knows, I'd be curious to see the numbers"

Look, there's the doubt. Do I ever respond to you like that? Quote you and basically call you a moron?

[That Aud Smell]

16 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Are they? It may seem like it but who knows, I'd be curious to see the numbers. Even if they are they started out just the same here, as one-offs. My point is I don't think you can say it's simply one thing, like gun culture/laws. This stuff happens all over the world in wildly different cultures. It makes it a much more difficult issue to pinpoint.

A college buddy of mine is an egghead sociologist. After Buffalo but before Uvalde, we were texting and he explained, in some detail, that the United States is the only country that exhibits a statistical propensity for mass shootings to occur. 

I'll caution anyone who goes looking: There are, of course, ways to skew statistics to support another position. The outlier events in places like New Zealand can make that country seem more prone to mass shootings than the United States. But it just isn't true.

14 minutes ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

The Texas shooter decided to buy two assault rifles (I think assault, but maybe not, but it does not matter) for his 18th birthday.  Just because he could and there were really no questions asked.  A year prior he was threating to shoot up his Highschool.  It was reported and nothing happened.

The recent role of the AR15 can't be over-stated.

9 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Honestly? 

I'm sure those are valid concerns, to varying degrees. But, honestly, let's just start by limiting access to assault rifles.

Shotguns? Rifles? Handguns? Keep 'em. You can have 'em.

Guns that are militarily designed to obliterate and destroy? Not so much, please.

[LGR4GM]

50 minutes ago, WildCard said:

No, they're not. 2019 New Zealand Mosque shootings and the 2011 Norway Attacks to name a few. Especially the latter which is just an insane story.

Here is you saying that mass shootings are not uniquely American even though you could only cite 1 time they had happened in these other places. I can name 3 that have happened in the US in the last 12 days.

2 minutes ago, WildCard said:

"Are they? It may seem like it but who knows, I'd be curious to see the numbers"

Look, there's the doubt. Do I ever respond to you like that? Quote you and basically call you a moron?

Didn't call you a moron.

[That Aud Smell]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Here is you saying that mass shootings are not uniquely American even though you could only cite 1 time they had happened in these other places. I can name 3 that have happened in the US in the last 12 days.

Crudely speaking: This is the difference between a feature and a bug.

[WildCard]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Here is you saying that mass shootings are not uniquely American even though you could only cite 1 time they had happened in these other places. I can name 3 that have happened in the US in the last 12 days.

Didn't call you a moron.

Your response was condescending and mocking don't act like it wasn't. 

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Here is you saying that mass shootings are not uniquely American even though you could only cite 1 time they had happened in these other places. I can name 3 that have happened in the US in the last 12 days.

Wanna nitpick? Fine. I said two other times it happened. My point was it happens elsewhere, the fact that it did was my only point. 

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Crudely speaking: This is the difference between a feature and a bug.

 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

If we can't respect each other enough to have a reasonable dialogue on here then there really is no hope for America.

@LGR4GM and @WildCard you are both on the same side here.  Stop being jerks, okay?  It makes it hard for the rest of us (well, me) to focus and contribute.

[WildCard]

2 minutes ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

If we can't respect each other enough to have a reasonable dialogue on here then there really is no hope for America.

@LGR4GM and @WildCard you are both on the same side here.  Stop being jerks, okay?  It makes it hard for the rest of us (well, me) to focus and contribute.

Lol I fail to see where I've been a jerk here.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 minute ago, WildCard said:

Lol I fail to see where I've been a jerk here.

I was just trying to be diplomatic, eh!!

[Doohicksie]

17 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I'm sure those are valid concerns, to varying degrees. But, honestly, let's just start by limiting access to assault rifles.

Shotguns? Rifles? Handguns? Keep 'em. You can have 'em.

Guns that are militarily designed to obliterate and destroy? Not so much, please.

Oh I don't disagree.  I think easy access to guns, esp. assault rifles, is a big problem too.  For gun control solutions I'd be interested in studying Australia and Switzerland.  Australia is similar in many ways to the U.S.; probably the only other country of any size with a similar rugged individualism ethos, and with a long history of personal gun ownership.  After Port Arthur there was a national will to prevent recurrence and they've been by and large successful.  I just don't see that happening in the U.S. but I'd be interested in trying.

Switzerland is the other extreme with a very high rate of gun ownership, but also most adult males serve in the militia and have training.  While many people own guns in Switzerland, ammo is fairly tightly controlled, as is the carrying/transport of guns.

I think either way would be successful if implemented in the U.S. but trying to pass *any* gun control legislation is supremely difficult here.

[Zamboni]

Responsible legal gun ownership. By and large, Not the problem. 

mentally disturbed people. It’s a problem and help and treatment is severely underfunded. It’s very sad.

illegal gun/stolen gun ownership. 

There is not hard-core severe punishment and penalties for illegally owning guns or possessing stolen guns. there’s too many slap on the wrists with those who have stolen guns in their possession or illegal guns. That may not deter The mentally disturbed individuals… But it certainly would deter a good portion of those who are not, and intend to do harm with those illegal or stolen guns.

I bet everyone of those parents in the school shooting… And every family of the slain individuals and Buffalo… Wish there were more armed individuals to immediately eliminate the threat as it happened in that moment of real time.

I know that if I was a parent of one of those school kids I would want more responsible gun owners in that school and are willing to take on any immediate threat to the safety of my kid and all kids.

and I know someone who has a friend and their family member died in the Buffalo shooting. And that is exactly what they said… That they wish more people were armed at that time in that store at that moment to eliminate that immediate threat. Before the police even arrived. And they were not the only family members Who had loved ones die that day, to expressed that thought. 

most of the time… when there is an active shooter, You cannot wait around for the police to save the day AND keep the body count as low as possible.

I think the solution is a combination of a bunch of things… But the politicians spouting ONLY more gun control and the ignorant masses who agree with it… I don’t think is the solution. It’s gotta be a combination of a few things. There aren’t enough hard-core punishments against those who have illegal guns, or stolen guns just in their possession… Let alone in the commission of a crime. Start there. Better mental health evaluations and checks. Start there also. Then see if that helps with this ugly scourge. And if those two things don’t do it… Then move on and look at other solutions. 

At least that’s how I see it.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Zamboni

[Doohicksie]

9 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Lol I fail to see where I've been a jerk here.

I think this is the spot:

37 minutes ago, WildCard said:

As usual a joy to interact with. We get it Liger, you're smart and everyone else is dumb.

That's kind of jerky.

[WildCard]

1 minute ago, Doohickie said:

I think this is the spot:

That's kind of jerky.

Responded to what I got.