Game 5 5/19/22 Rochester @ Utica 7:05 pm - AHLTV

[Amerks8796]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Wouldn’t be doing based strictly on development.

Id be doing it for development and because I think Dell is awful and UPL gives this team a better chance to win.

Dell has been the better goalie the entire year in Rochester. How is this even a debate? If UPL was not a prospect, and he was some journeyman with the exact same play, literally nobody would want anything to do with him. The only reason anyone wants him to play is his status in the organization. That’s a fact.  Dell has got them here. And he should not be pulled unless his play tanks, or he gets hurt. 
 

Dell was 12-7-1. 5-2 in the playoffs  

UPL was 15-14-6-1

Edited May 21, 2022 by Amerks8796

[dudacek]

46 minutes ago, Amerks8796 said:

Dell has been the better goalie the entire year in Rochester. How is this even a debate? If UPL was not a prospect, and he was some journeyman with the exact same play, literally nobody would want anything to do with him. The only reason anyone wants him to play is his status in the organization. That’s a fact.  Dell has got them here. And he should not be pulled unless his play tanks, or he gets hurt. 
 

Dell was 12-7-1. 5-2 in the playoffs  

UPL was 15-14-6-1

 I want him to play because Dell is terrible. The Amerks got Dell here, not the other way around.

We’re not going to agree on this

[K-9]

I’d rather see Houser than either Dell or UPL. 

[Taro T]

8 hours ago, Porous Five Hole said:

We agree that Dell is not a good goalie at the AHL level.  I’ve been watching this playoff run closely. The only game(s) that I thought Dell “stole,” or more appropriately, played well/very well in, was 1) Belleville game one (stole), & 2) Utica at ROC game three (very good). All other games he was pretty average.  Plugged in Amerks fans don’t have a lot of confidence in him. 
 

At the same time, there’s an exhaustion with UPL in his underperformance relative to his billing/prospect status. And he has been injured every year. 
 

My gut says they’ll roll with Dell and hope he gets hot. And only turn to UPL if ROC has their backs against the wall in this best of five series v Laval.  

IMHO Dell remains the starter until he has a bad period which sees the Amerks down by at least 2.  At that point UPL finishes the game & if he looks good he gets the next start.

When UPL is on his game, he is significantly better than Dell.  Problem is, he's only really been on his game the couple of weeks after Dell get sent back down early in the season.  When UPL isn't on his game, Dell w/ all his flaws is the better goalie.

Dell also seems to be better when he's under siege & can't handle prosperity.  How many times in this playoff run did Dell give up a goal on the 1st or 2nd shot against when it came 5 minutes into the game?  At least twice and pretty sure 3 times.  UPL probably doesn't give up those "prosperity" goals, so the Amerks might actually be able to get a big lead w/ UPL but in a tight game he'll be more likely to give up that late critical goal than Dell.

[Amerks8796]

7 hours ago, dudacek said:

 I want him to play because Dell is terrible. The Amerks got Dell here, not the other way around.

We’re not going to agree on this

You’re ignoring facts and stats. I don’t care if you agree with me. 

[inkman]

18 minutes ago, Amerks8796 said:

You’re ignoring facts and stats. I don’t care if you agree with me. 

I think both goalies have kinda sucked.  
 

 

[Amerks8796]

6 minutes ago, inkman said:

I think both goalies have kinda sucked.  
 

 

Dell was consistently a .910 goalie all year. It’s interesting when people justified UPL’s poor play towards the beginning of the year with “small sample size” but that of course doesn’t apply to Dell now. He’s easily been the better goalie all year. I’m not even a big Dell fan. I don’t want him back next year, but he’s been far better other than a one month stretch when UPL played well around March. 

Edited May 21, 2022 by Amerks8796

[Flashsabre]

I have never seen a goalie get beat as many times off of face offs as Dell. I don’t know if he loses his angles or what but every time there is a defensive face off I cringe.

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

IMHO Dell remains the starter until he has a bad period which sees the Amerks down by at least 2.  At that point UPL finishes the game & if he looks good he gets the next start.

When UPL is on his game, he is significantly better than Dell.  Problem is, he's only really been on his game the couple of weeks after Dell get sent back down early in the season.  When UPL isn't on his game, Dell w/ all his flaws is the better goalie.

Dell also seems to be better when he's under siege & can't handle prosperity.  How many times in this playoff run did Dell give up a goal on the 1st or 2nd shot against when it came 5 minutes into the game?  At least twice and pretty sure 3 times.  UPL probably doesn't give up those "prosperity" goals, so the Amerks might actually be able to get a big lead w/ UPL but in a tight game he'll be more likely to give up that late critical goal than Dell.

You watch AHL games while I don't. So it would be unfair for me to comment about the Rochester goalies. But after reading your observations about UPL and his deficiencies, what is the appeal of him as a NHL prospect? It is often mentioned that when he is on his game he can be stellar. But it is his lapses and lack of consistency that bother me. Even in the games he played in Buffalo there were extended spells in which he was tremendous. And then there would be that inexplicable long-distant shot with little obstruction in front of him where he would whiff. Giving up those types of goals are crushing and dispiriting!

It just seems that the GM is invested in UPL as a Sabre goalie next year. If the GM doesn't bring in one or two more experienced NHL goalies next season, he is taking a big risk in undercutting a team that seems to be moving in the right direction. 

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, Amerks8796 said:

You’re ignoring facts and stats. I don’t care if you agree with me. 

I think you are ignoring the fact that Dell’s play has already tanked.

AHL playoffs: 7 games .882 SV %.

That’s 24th out of 28 goalie to have played. They next worst starter still playing has a .907 SV% 

Laval’s goalie is coming in with a .940 SV%.

The offence isn’t going to keep hiding his soft goals by scoring 4 a game.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

You watch AHL games while I don't. So it would be unfair for me to comment about the Rochester goalies. But after reading your observations about UPL and his deficiencies, what is the appeal of him as a NHL prospect? It is often mentioned that when he is on his game he can be stellar. But it is his lapses and lack of consistency that bother me. Even in the games he played in Buffalo there were extended spells in which he was tremendous. And then there would be that inexplicable long-distant shot with little obstruction in front of him where he would whiff. Giving up those types of goals are crushing and dispiriting!

It just seems that the GM is invested in UPL as a Sabre goalie next year. If the GM doesn't bring in one or two more experienced NHL goalies next season, he is taking a big risk in undercutting a team that seems to be moving in the right direction. 

The primary (only?) reason to remain hopeful is that he was the best goalie in junior hockey prior to the elective double hip surgeries and all accounts regarding the surgeries say they were successful and though they have obviously bothered him he has fixed one major issue he was having since the surgeries.  Last year & in the preseason, he was letting a LOT of pucks go in over his shoulder both glove & stick side.  He still occasionally gives up that goal but not appreciably more than other goalies.  So, he's either managed to get his butterfly back to what it was before the surgeries, has adjusted to them, or a combo.  If he really can get past the mental hurdle of the hips just not feeling "right" when they do what they're supposed to, he could be a solid NHLer.  This past preseason was completely ready to give up on him.  But he has improved.  Who knows, maybe this leg injury might be good in the long run as he has had a really awkward leg movement NOT result in a major injury.  Wouldn't be at all surprised that he isn't playing shy for fear of a hip failing.

On a different note, Adams believes (or at least states) that w/ the additional structure that there is at the NHL level will allow UPL to be better at the higher level as his is a more technically correct style when it is on.  Hopefully he's right.  But it is far from certain.  

IF UPL can get the low shots (especially 5 holes) under control he could be a Biron.  Still want someone better ahead of him and don't have a good feel for whether he can get the hips out of his head which keeps him ceiling even lower.

And, yeah, Adams does seem to have UPL in the backup role penciled in.  But, though we fret that another year of subpar goaltending might mess up the team chemistry; expecting that view doesn't take into full account just how high character these players are.  So, even if goaltending or injuries torpedoes next season, don't expect it'll doom the next.  But it will hurt attendance tremendously & therefore profits.  Hoping that causes Adams to not just come close to a deal for a real starter but actually land him.