VGK fires DeBoer

[Flashsabre]

DeBoer is a jerk. One of the talking heads said MAF wouldn’t go back to Vegas because of DeBoer.

He was canned because someone had to take the fall and it was either Pete or Foley would can McPhee or McCrimmon.

 

Also, Isles promotes Lane Lambert to Head Coach. Weird that he has been Trotz’s right hand man for 11 years and they boot Trotz and promote him.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Flashsabre

[Marvin]

10 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

This isn’t on Jack.  Like Trotz and NY this change is on the GM who failed.  

The easy clicks for journalists making the deceptive and facile conclusion to pin this exclusively on Jack are getting out of hand.  As if my opinion of most of them can go much lower...  No wonder we are so damned skeptical of the "information" they put out.

[SDS]

1 minute ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

The easy clicks for journalists making the deceptive and facile conclusion to pin this exclusively on Jack are getting out of hand.  As if my opinion of most of them can go much lower...  No wonder we are so damned skeptical of the "information" they put out.

Why don’t you go ahead and link to these articles written by actual journalists in respectable publications.

[JohnC]

39 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Serious question:  is there any evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, that Eichel is NOT a destructive, toxic presence?

I know a number of his former teammates have spoken in support of him, but I kinda think they're just following the rules, and there are also plenty of his former teammates who have spoken negatively about him.

Has he ever been part of a positive team situation?  For his 1 year at BU, he led the team in scoring as a freshman and they made it to the NCAA title game, so presumably that was a great season.  Does anyone know whether that was regarded as a close-knit team?

He put Eichel's face on it though -- so he improved the meme.

What kind of ridiculous and biased question are you posing? Eichel played in an organization that was recognized for its half generation of stupendous dysfunction. And it is well known that most of its prominent players wanted out. Some of them are ROR, Reinhart, Risto, McCabe, Montour and etc. And as you point out I'm not aware of any of his former teammates speaking critically of him. Everyone is looking for a fall guy for an organization that reeked with incompetence. A cheap shot might get you an applause from this audience but no clapping will be coming from me. 

[Second Line Center]

5 minutes ago, JohnC said:

And as you point out I'm not aware of any of his former teammates speaking critically of him. Everyone is looking for a fall guy for an organization that reeked with incompetence. 

 

Where and when or how often do you hear one player say something negative about a guy on the team - which ironically can make that player look like "a problem."  

Even reporters close to the team will not tell you things they may have heard at risk of losing access.  You might hear hints or whispers.   

 

A historically bad 10 year stretch half of which those guys were together.  We have as much evidence the organizational was so dysfunctional that players didn't or still don't want to play here as we do that Eichel and company were all just a terrible mix of personalities.  Both can be true.  

[PromoTheRobot]

18 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

The easy clicks for journalists making the deceptive and facile conclusion to pin this exclusively on Jack are getting out of hand.  As if my opinion of most of them can go much lower...  No wonder we are so damned skeptical of the "information" they put out.

I really don't blame Jack in this case. It's just funny how social media responds. The truth of the mob, and it turns on a dime. 6 months ago Jack was a poor victim, now he's an a--hole.

Edited May 16, 2022 by PromoTheRobot

[Marvin]

11 minutes ago, SDS said:

Why don’t you go ahead and link to these articles written by actual journalists in respectable publications.

I don't think it is appropriate to put personal e-mails and texts into a public forum.  And I don't know how to copy URLs into a textbox on my phone.

Maybe I should just lay off commenting about Twitter-based hot takes.

 

[SDS]

9 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

I don't think it is appropriate to put personal e-mails and texts into a public forum.  And I don't know how to copy URLs into a textbox on my phone.

Maybe I should just lay off commenting about Twitter-based hot takes.

 

I’ve searched for Peter‘s name and scrolled through pages and pages and pages of tweets. I’ve looked for any sign of any journalist in my Twitter feed about  any comment regarding his firing and Jack. Nothing. I see comments from fans.

If you don’t know how to post a link maybe just give us the name of the blu-check reporter and I would be happy to go search for it.

[bob_sauve28]

1 hour ago, RochesterExpat said:

Funny enough, Sam Reinhart saw 5 in shorter since Quenneville resigned in October.

Can't blame Sam for that one, though....

[JohnC]

22 minutes ago, Second Line Center said:

 

Where and when or how often do you hear one player say something negative about a guy on the team - which ironically can make that player look like "a problem."  

Even reporters close to the team will not tell you things they may have heard at risk of losing access.  You might hear hints or whispers.   

 

A historically bad 10 year stretch half of which those guys were together.  We have as much evidence the organizational was so dysfunctional that players didn't or still don't want to play here as we do that Eichel and company were all just a terrible mix of personalities.  Both can be true.  

Jack may not have been the best teammate. Even if that is the case to attribute a large role for the failure of this dismally functioning franchise is unfair and unreasonable. Searching for a specific demon when the stench of incompetence oozed throughout the organization, starting with the ownership, makes little sense. The player is gone. Find another bogeyman to pursue! 

[matter2003]

Eichel's reputation as a coach killer precedes him.

1 hour ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

DeBoer isn't great and he was a jerk about Lehner's injuries, but the GM and owner are the real problems there.

Vegas is in trouble with all those bloated contracts to players who aren't performing

[Taro T]

And w/ DeBoer out & Trotz floating in the unemployment rolls, am glad the Sabres got this year's draft pick.

[SabresVet]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

Serious question:  is there any evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, that Eichel is NOT a destructive, toxic presence?

I know a number of his former teammates have spoken in support of him, but I kinda think they're just following the rules, and there are also plenty of his former teammates who have spoken negatively about him.

Has he ever been part of a positive team situation?  For his 1 year at BU, he led the team in scoring as a freshman and they made it to the NCAA title game, so presumably that was a great season.  Does anyone know whether that was regarded as a close-knit team?

He put Eichel's face on it though -- so he improved the meme.

The old prove a negative fallacy argument.  I could just as easily ask is there any evidence that says the Buffalo Sabres aren't going to be sold?  Or, what evidence is there that Kevyn Adams isn't gonna be the next team president?  Someone on a message board or a report emerged which means there's some smoke...ergo it must be true.  🤣  

Dude got traded almost 7 months.  Played in 34 games.  End result?  Coach Killer.  🤣  Has to be...we don't like that guy.  🤣  

 

[Curt]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

What kind of ridiculous and biased question are you posing? Eichel played in an organization that was recognized for its half generation of stupendous dysfunction. And it is well known that most of its prominent players wanted out. Some of them are ROR, Reinhart, Risto, McCabe, Montour and etc. And as you point out I'm not aware of any of his former teammates speaking critically of him. Everyone is looking for a fall guy for an organization that reeked with incompetence. A cheap shot might get you an applause from this audience but no clapping will be coming from me. 

Brian Gionta has spoken critically of Eichel.  Not pinning all of the organization’s issues on him, but he has been critical.

I don’t believe that @nfreeman was asking the question in order to put full blame on Eichel.  He knows that it’s been dysfunction from multiple angles with this franchise.  Rather, that question was your opportunity to provide some evidence that Eichel is not a destructive/toxic locker room presence.  You didn’t.

[nfreeman]

36 minutes ago, SabresVet said:

The old prove a negative fallacy argument.  I could just as easily ask is there any evidence that says the Buffalo Sabres aren't going to be sold?  Or, what evidence is there that Kevyn Adams isn't gonna be the next team president?  Someone on a message board or a report emerged which means there's some smoke...ergo it must be true.  🤣  

Dude got traded almost 7 months.  Played in 34 games.  End result?  Coach Killer.  🤣  Has to be...we don't like that guy.  🤣  

 

You are certainly right that proving a negative is tricky to impossible, and that many here have an ax to grind with Eichel.  And as others have noted upthread, the Sabres were highly dysfunctional for Jack's entire time here, so it's unfair to pin everything on him.

But still -- there's more than a little smoke indicating that he's not a great team guy, and Vegas' record got significantly worse immediately upon him joining the lineup, and when he's on a team, coaches get fired.  And we're here on the internet in the offseason speculating as to whether he's a big problem for his teams.  Is it really unreasonable to ask whether anyone's seen any positive indicators about his team spirit?

[Taro T]

12 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

You are certainly right that proving a negative is tricky to impossible, and that many here have an ax to grind with Eichel.  And as others have noted upthread, the Sabres were highly dysfunctional for Jack's entire time here, so it's unfair to pin everything on him.

But still -- there's more than a little smoke indicating that he's not a great team guy, and Vegas' record got significantly worse immediately upon him joining the lineup, and when he's on a team, coaches get fired.  And we're here on the internet in the offseason speculating as to whether he's a big problem for his teams.  Is it really unreasonable to ask whether anyone's seen any positive indicators about his team spirit?

But did the record get worse because Eichel was activated or was it due to the players going on LTIR to allow him to come off LTIR?

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Jack may not have been the best teammate. Even if that is the case to attribute a large role for the failure of this dismally functioning franchise is unfair and unreasonable. Searching for a specific demon when the stench of incompetence oozed throughout the organization, starting with the ownership, makes little sense. The player is gone. Find another bogeyman to pursue! 

Lighten up, Francis.

[Contempt]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

Jack may not have been the best teammate. Even if that is the case to attribute a large role for the failure of this dismally functioning franchise is unfair and unreasonable. Searching for a specific demon when the stench of incompetence oozed throughout the organization, starting with the ownership, makes little sense. The player is gone. Find another bogeyman to pursue! 

 

[Norcal]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

But did the record get worse because Eichel was activated or was it due to the players going on LTIR to allow him to come off LTIR?

One has everything to do with the other so yes imo

[mjd1001]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

Jack may not have been the best teammate. Even if that is the case to attribute a large role for the failure of this dismally functioning franchise is unfair and unreasonable. Searching for a specific demon when the stench of incompetence oozed throughout the organization, starting with the ownership, makes little sense. The player is gone. Find another bogeyman to pursue! 

Well that is just the thing...While we are far from perfect here, many fans think things have started to look up and turned around right after he was gone. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not.  

Therefore, for those fans, no other bogeyman is needed to pursue. One isn't needed right now as things seem to have turned the corner for many of us....the only Bogeyman that can exist is when we look back 6+ months or more...and Jack fits the bill really well for that role.

This is a forum about the Sabres....there are no rules saying we can or should only talk about the current Sabres.  We talk about good and bad here. We talk about current players and former players (Hasek, Perreault, Briere, Drury, and Yes, Eichel).  There is a good portion of posters here who are going to want to talk about Eichel, no wishing that away will change it.

Edited May 16, 2022 by mjd1001

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

But did the record get worse because Eichel was activated or was it due to the players going on LTIR to allow him to come off LTIR?

Those two factors seem like the same thing to me. 

[K-9]

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

What kind of ridiculous and biased question are you posing? Eichel played in an organization that was recognized for its half generation of stupendous dysfunction. And it is well known that most of its prominent players wanted out. Some of them are ROR, Reinhart, Risto, McCabe, Montour and etc. And as you point out I'm not aware of any of his former teammates speaking critically of him. Everyone is looking for a fall guy for an organization that reeked with incompetence. A cheap shot might get you an applause from this audience but no clapping will be coming from me. 

And what did all those players have in common? That’s right; they all played with Eichel and they all wanted out. 

Just kidding, John.

Kinda.

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

And what did all those players have in common? That’s right; they all played with Eichel and they all wanted out. 

Just kidding, John.

Kinda.

In my opinion Marty Biron is one of the better hockey analysts in the game. Don't let his congenial manner mask the fact that he is very knowledgeable about what is going on in the league. He was asked on the Instigator Show which he co-hosts if Cal Petersen, a goalie in college who became a free agent and signed with the LA Kings, was a big loss for Buffalo. He said no. The reason that he gave was that if he would have signed with the Sabres when they had his rights he would not have succeeded here because the organization was in a state of chaos and dysfunction. Jack felt stuck in that unstable franchise situation. I don't blame him for wanting out. This franchise failed him, other players and the fans. I'm confident that now things have turned in a positive direction for Buffalo. The GM in my opinion was right that the old core needed to be flushed out in order for the new core to start anew. In my view the trade worked out for the best for the dealt player and the franchise that sent him to another destination. 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

Well that is just the thing...While we are far from perfect here, many fans think things have started to look up and turned around right after he was gone. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not.  

Therefore, for those fans, no other bogeyman is needed to pursue. One isn't needed right now as things seem to have turned the corner for many of us....the only Bogeyman that can exist is when we look back 6+ months or more...and Jack fits the bill really well for that role.

This is a forum about the Sabres....there are no rules saying we can or should only talk about the current Sabres.  We talk about good and bad here. We talk about current players and former players (Hasek, Perreault, Briere, Drury, and Yes, Eichel).  There is a good portion of posters here who are going to want to talk about Eichel, no wishing that away will change it.

You can talk about any player you want. And so can I. 

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, Curt said:

Brian Gionta has spoken critically of Eichel.  Not pinning all of the organization’s issues on him, but he has been critical.

I don’t believe that @nfreeman was asking the question in order to put full blame on Eichel.  He knows that it’s been dysfunction from multiple angles with this franchise.  Rather, that question was your opportunity to provide some evidence that Eichel is not a destructive/toxic locker room presence.  You didn’t.

Brian Gionta has discretely been critical of Eichel. So what! He wasn't the leader that many people hoped for. He was simply too young and ill-equipped for the role. The idea that I should have to prove a negative that he was a toxic presence is an absurdity. He may not have been an exceptional leader but that doesn't mean that he was a destructive presence in the locker room. I'm not the one making the scathing claim about him as a person. It's not my responsibility to prove the unsubstantiated claims of others.