10 Dead in Shooting at a Buffalo Tops

[Doohicksie]

By the way, I would also look at the Switzerland model.  Very high level of gun ownership.  Near universal military service among males. 

I would be in favor of universal public service, military or Americorps or Peace Corps, but with full military level gun training in each branch of service.  That would reduce at least the "didn't know how to use/fire/store/transport a gun properly" issue.  Note though that although gun ownership is very high in Switzerland, there are pretty tight restrictions on who can carry and when and how.  They have one of the lowest gun homicide rates.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_Switzerland

The point is:  The current American system does NOT WORK.  Lots of remedies.  TRY SOMETHING.

[drnkirishone]

Oo look a discussion on white supremacy got moved to the political forum....... shocking

[SABRES 0311]

Respect to Aaron Salter Jr for protecting  innocent people. May not have taken down the shooter but no doubt saved even more people from getting hurt.

[Weave]

17 hours ago, SabresBillsFan said:

And here comes the right vs left. 

At some point the right needs to acknowledge that widespread gun ownership, statements of replacement theory (and other hate mongering theories) and aggressive language is an unsafe combination.  This is the 3rd  or 4th mass shooting in recent memory where replacement theory has been the motivator.  Adults on the right side need to do the right thing and stop this kind of crap messaging.

 

Correction- the adults on the right need to do the right thing and condemn this kind of crap messaging, not just stop doing it.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Weave

[drnkirishone]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

At some point the right needs to acknowledge that widespread gun ownership, statements of replacement theory (and other hate mongering theories) and aggressive language is an unsafe combination.  This is the 3rd  or 4th mass shooting in recent memory where replacement theory has been the motivator.  Adults on the right side need to do the right thing and stop this kind of crap messaging.

 

Correction- the adults on the right need to do the right thing and condemn this kind of crap messaging, not just stop doing it.

When you are the minority party and you are clinging on to your majority holdings the last thing you are doing is the "right thing"

[Eleven]

On 5/16/2022 at 10:09 AM, Weave said:

At some point the right needs to acknowledge that widespread gun ownership, statements of replacement theory (and other hate mongering theories) and aggressive language is an unsafe combination.

I note--and I mean this in a nice way and not a mean way--that this comes from someone whom I would consider to be a "gun enthusiast."  That's how common-sense the solution is, folks...

[SABRES 0311]

On 5/16/2022 at 7:09 AM, Weave said:

At some point the right needs to acknowledge that widespread gun ownership, statements of replacement theory (and other hate mongering theories) and aggressive language is an unsafe combination.  This is the 3rd  or 4th mass shooting in recent memory where replacement theory has been the motivator.  Adults on the right side need to do the right thing and stop this kind of crap messaging.

 

Correction- the adults on the right need to do the right thing and condemn this kind of crap messaging, not just stop doing it.

I’ll add people need to learn how to research. That’s not a right or left thing, it’s an all around issue. 

[Eleven]

14 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

I’ll add people need to learn how to research. That’s not a right or left thing, it’s an all around issue. 

The shooter was a guy who did a lot of his own research.

If you're saying that people need to consider their sources better, I'm on board.

[SABRES 0311]

4 minutes ago, Eleven said:

The shooter was a guy who did a lot of his own research.

If you're saying that people need to consider their sources better, I'm on board.

I’m guessing he made up his mind a long time ago using one sided garbage information. Probably didn’t do a whole lot of looking into other points of view or validating the sources of his information. That’s how extremists in general come to be. 

Validation of sources is part of researching. 

[Weave]

6 hours ago, Eleven said:

I note--and I mean this in a nice way and not a mean way--that this comes from someone whom I would consider to be a "gun enthusiast."  That's how common-sense the solution is, folks...

We gun enthusiasts will only have ourselves to blame when the tide turns and we aren’t welcomed at the table to discuss how to fix what is obviously broken.  Ever since Kennedy was assassinated we’ve dug our heels in and refused to acknowledge that change is needed.  It was selfish then.  It is selfish now.  We will reap what we’ve sown.

[Eleven]

12 minutes ago, Weave said:

We gun enthusiasts will only have ourselves to blame when the tide turns and we aren’t welcomed at the table to discuss how to fix what is obviously broken.  Ever since Kennedy was assassinated we’ve dug our heels in and refused to acknowledge that change is needed.  It was selfish then.  It is selfish now.  We will reap what we’ve sown.

I always thought it was Brady (not assassination, but the attempted one of Reagan, and please know that I am not clarifying this for you, weave) and not Kennedy, but that's my lifetime and what I saw and read.  In any event, thank you for wanting the discussion that the NRA never did.

[North Buffalo]

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/community/helpbuffalo

[SABRES 0311]

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/us/live-news/texas-elementary-school-shooting-05-24-22/index.html

[K-9]

This uniquely American problem will not be dealt with in any meaningful way until we stop electing politicians who refuse to do anything about it. 

As Scalia opined in Heller and as others have since it was written, the 2nd Amendment is not an unlimited right. Regardless of the bastardized interpretations otherwise. 

All semi-automatic assault rifles, high volume clips, and body armor need to be banned.

Anyone seeking to purchase a firearm must pass a rigorous background check, regardless how long it takes to conduct. 

All firearms must be registered and licensed in the state it was purchased. And like driver’s licenses, if you move to another state, you must then register that firearm in your new state of residence. 

Also like cars, all guns must carry mandatory insurance policy minimums. 

A minimum age limit should be imposed. 

Anyone purchasing a gun must enroll in a mandatory training and safety course to be eligible for a license to be issued. 

Licenses should have term limits and be renewed periodically again, just as we with a license to drive. 

And before any flag waving, pocket Constitution carrying gun nut wishes to set me straight, please know I’m not interested in any of your late night theoretical college dorm discussions on the “intent” of the Founders. I simply don’t care and don’t give a flying ***** about discussing the issue any further. 

Enough talk. 

 

 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I came back into the club to say one thing.

The real issue in the US is two fold and you can't fix the second without seriously working on the first and most important issue, IMO.

People who are desperate and scared because they find themselves in a terrible situation ... unemployment, addiction etc ... need to be able to easily find and get the help they need and / or have someone be able to do it for them if someone notices the first sign of issues.

In Texas and in Buffalo that did not happen.

In Canada we have similar problem in our healthcare system.

These issues need to be addressed in the US, Canada and many other countries where lack of mental health supports exist.

The second issue is that in the US these people are easily able to get guns.  This ussue will never be properly addressed without addressing the first issue in a meaningful way.

Norway (I think or maybe Finland) has more guns per capita than any other country, including the US, but we never hear of mass shootings there.  In large part because of a better healthcare system, but also a different culture than in the US.  The culture in the US is not going to change anytime soon, so the best way to address these shootings is to address the mental health care system.  That's the way I see it anyway.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Sabres Fan in NS

[thewookie1]

As a Conservative Republican I most certainly lean towards Gun RIghts but I am certainly for universal background checks and wish the NRA would just go and die already. 

15 hours ago, K-9 said:

This uniquely American problem will not be dealt with in any meaningful way until we stop electing politicians who refuse to do anything about it. 

As Scalia opined in Heller and as others have since it was written, the 2nd Amendment is not an unlimited right. Regardless of the bastardized interpretations otherwise. 

All semi-automatic assault rifles, high volume clips, and body armor need to be banned. Assault Rifle looking guns sure, high volume clips/magazines sure, body armor is a bit stickier as it involves the security industry as well.

Anyone seeking to purchase a firearm must pass a rigorous background check, regardless how long it takes to conduct. I fully agree

All firearms must be registered and licensed in the state it was purchased. And like driver’s licenses, if you move to another state, you must then register that firearm in your new state of residence. This is already the case in NY, hell it goes down to the county level. Going into NY also requires a new permit to bring a gun into the state and is typically transferred through Gun Shops in their respective states.

Also like cars, all guns must carry mandatory insurance policy  minimums. I disagree with this idea entirely; adding even more hoops to jump through would more than likely lead to more illegal possession as it would place a ongoing cost on people who own guns. Even those who never use them outside basic residential protection. (Plus it won't sway criminals as the cost won't matter to them anyway.)

A minimum age limit should be imposed. Its 18 in NY

Anyone purchasing a gun must enroll in a mandatory training and safety course to be eligible for a license to be issued.  True is NY

Licenses should have term limits and be renewed periodically again, just as we with a license to drive. Would only serve to give more money to the states and cause trouble for the elderly who don't use their guns but wish to keep them for their decedents. Additionally the process would require judicial input which would only cause more problems than its worth. 

And before any flag waving, pocket Constitution carrying gun nut wishes to set me straight, please know I’m not interested in any of your late night theoretical college dorm discussions on the “intent” of the Founders. I simply don’t care and don’t give a flying ***** about discussing the issue any further. 

Enough talk. 

 

[SABRES 0311]

I agree there is a cultural issue of young men, of all backgrounds, doing this. I think Columbine opened the flood gates for these acts. 

The time between these acts is decreasing with back to back incidents becoming more frequent. A pattern is/has been emerging.

Gun owners should attend formal training that includes safe handling and storage. Keeping a loaded gun in the top drawer with kids in the house is stupid. Don’t throw 2A in someone’s face if you yourself do not responsibly execute that freedom.

 

[drnkirishone]

Every child that is born we should give them a handgun, assault rifle, and shotgun. Make them responsible for personal safety. Only thing that stops a bad person with a gun is a baby with 3 guns

[Weave]

8 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

I agree there is a cultural issue of young men, of all backgrounds, doing this. I think Columbine opened the flood gates for these acts. 

The time between these acts is decreasing with back to back incidents becoming more frequent. A pattern is/has been emerging.

Gun owners should attend formal training that includes safe handling and storage. Keeping a loaded gun in the top drawer with kids in the house is stupid. Don’t throw 2A in someone’s face if you yourself do not responsibly execute that freedom.

 

I think laws regarding storage for control of access is a must, with penalties for failure to control equivalent to accessory to murder. Yes junior, that means if you wanna own a gun you also need to own and use a safe.

I think we need to mandate ALL transactions, even between family members, need to go through a licensed dealer and an FBI check performed.

I think we need to eliminate the sale and transfer of magazines with a capacity greater than 10 rounds.

I think the 1993 assault weapons ban needs to be re-implemented grandfathering in current privately owned firearms and owners. As the current owners sunset, so does ownership of these weapons.

I think GOP needs to allow a director of the ATF to be appointed.

I think the ATF needs to create a firearm ownership transfer database that manufactures, distributors, wholesalers, dealers MUST use when processing transactions.  This is so the ownership chain of a firearm used in a crime can be readily established.  It would also pinpoint where in the chain guns leak out into the black market. (I am not aware of this being required currently. It was not evident to me that firearm info was entered into a database the last time I bought a firearm last year)

And I think the ATF should have a robust and properly funded audit team ensuring that database compliance is 100%.

[Weave]

I am open to continued ownership of assault rifles under a system similar to how NFA firearms are handled.  The idea being that it is going to cost alot of money and be a genuine inconvenience to own these firearms.  The maze that needs to be navigated will be sufficient to control access.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Weave

[LGR4GM]

Body armor could be outright banned tomorrow and it should be. It isn't part of the constitution and there is no civilian reason to own it.

Idc if something is "assault rifle looking" because what matters is the action. All semi-auto weapons should be banned effective immediately and if you want one there needs to be a strict licensing, training, and background requirements to own it. Further you are responsible for securing the weapon and any illegal use of it you are responsible for. If stolen you must report it immediately. No gun ownership for those under 28, you can use one under supervision to go hunting and the supervisor is responsible for illegal use.

If ppl disagree with this, honestly then they are perfectly comfortable with CHILDREN being murdered so they can maintain their hobby and gun fetishism. Want to talk about grooming, the Christmas cards with an entire family holding firearms is grooming. It is sick and disgusting and after the last 14 days my entire opinion of firearms has changed.

Nothing will happen and today or tomorrow will be another killing of children and nothing will happen because this country is a backwards group of ***** idiots who are so selfish and egotistical the thought of doing something for the greater good is scoffed at. Maybe we should stop honoring the military at games like they are the second coming of jesus and start honoring the teachers getting gun down in classrooms because the phrase "well regulated militia" has completely vanished and been replaced with "get your ***** guns and kill some kids, who ***** cares, yeee-haw wild west, my rights, good guys with gun, my right to bare arms shall not be infringed."

If I sound angry, I am. My wife received multiple emails and had multiple conversations with children yesterday asking about when the next lockdown drill was and if their ***** school was safe. Semi-auto weapons ban and buyback program, funding to study gun violence, total ban on body armor of any kind, magazine limits, and forced training with deep background checks for non-hunting weapon purchases.

This isn't freedom, this is fear.

[LGR4GM]

If you are a gun owner and you read this and say "hey! that's not fair!, my rights!", go explain your "unfair" treatment and "rights" to the parents who are having their cheeks swabbed because they can't identify the bodies of 3rd and 4th graders without DNA you heartless sacks of human *****.

[thewookie1]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

I think laws regarding storage for control of access is a must, with penalties for failure to control equivalent to accessory to murder. Yes junior, that means if you wanna own a gun you also need to own and use a safe.

I think we need to mandate ALL transactions, even between family members, need to go through a licensed dealer and an FBI check performed.

I think we need to eliminate the sale and transfer of magazines with a capacity greater than 10 rounds.

I think the 1993 assault weapons ban needs to be re-implemented grandfathering in current privately owned firearms and owners. As the current owners sunset, so does ownership of these weapons.

I think GOP needs to allow a director of the ATF to be appointed.

I think the ATF needs to create a firearm ownership transfer database that manufactures, distributors, wholesalers, dealers MUST use when processing transactions.  This is so the ownership chain of a firearm used in a crime can be readily established.  It would also pinpoint where in the chain guns leak out into the black market. (I am not aware of this being required currently. It was not evident to me that firearm info was entered into a database the last time I bought a firearm last year)

And I think the ATF should have a robust and properly funded audit team ensuring that database compliance is 100%.

I would support this with the caveat that in the event of death and inheritance; the guns could be placed in some type of safe storage until the family member in question could be checked over. You'd also get an option to disable a gun for display purposes (Grampa's old Luger or etc.)

 

                                       

[Weave]

11 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

I would support this with the caveat that in the event of death and inheritance; the guns could be placed in some type of safe storage until the family member in question could be checked over. You'd also get an option to disable a gun for display purposes (Grampa's old Luger or etc.)

 

                                       

The idea is to sunset these things.  It defeats the purpose.

 

[Hank]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

 Maybe we should stop honoring the military at games like they are the second coming of jesus...

This may be the dumbest thing you've ever said.