Sabres Officially Select #9, #16, and #28

[sabresparaavida]

I’d say the current core is:

Tage, Dahlin, Samuellson, Power

potential future core pieces: Cozens, mitts, Krebs, Quinn, jjp

 

very important vets but not quite core: Tuch, skinner, and to a lesser extent Oloffson and Okposo

 

[Curt]

4 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Well in the case of the Sabres Skinner is core then by that definition. Is he? I don't think so. He's kind of we're stuck with him and we hope he has a decent season or two until we can buy him out. Or is he core? 

He is a top line forward who they are committed to for $9M for the next 5 years, with a full NMC.  He might not be someone who you would want as a core piece, but he has been committed to as such.

If his play slips years down the line, I guess he could be bought out, but I don’t think that is Adams’ go to plan.  Buyouts are costly too.

4 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I would not be unhappy with this pick at all. 

Unfortunately it’s looking more and more likely that Gauthier will be off the board before Sabres pick.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

The core is a work in progress at the moment.  Therefore, the Sabres don't have a core yet.  A young and developing team does not have a core yet.  A core is only something that is in place once the team moves into the playoff yearly and eventually contender status.  There is no point discussing the core now since there isn't one really.  We really should be talking core when Rasmus is in his prime, so 5 years from now ...

In five years I see the Sabre core being ... Dahlin and Power on D.

Tage, Tuch, Cozens and another player either on the roster now or who will be very soon (in the system somewhere now or this draft or next at the latest).  I am only going with 6 core players, but they obviosly will need others that are close to core and very good players in 5 years time.

Goalies are rarely seen as core players in the traditional sense, but all good teams need one ... Levi will be it for the Sabres.

[JohnC]

16 hours ago, dudacek said:

Do you think adding the type of player that you could get for pick 28 or 41 will put butts in the seats?

I don’t. Certainly not directly through star power, but also not indirectly by improving the team significantly more than Quinn or Peterka or whoever gets bumped out of the top 9 to accommodate the new guy will.

Also you do recognize that acquiring a significant piece now means increasing the likelihood of being forced to trade one or more of Thompson/Tuch/Mitts/Dahlin/Power/Cozens/Samuelsson and/or others in a few years due to cap restraints, while also removing a chip, or chips from the pipeline that could instead be developed to augment or replace them?

It’s not mortgaging the future, but it will likely force you to predict the future sooner, and with less evidence.

No single transaction is going to put butts in the seats. That's not what you should be striving for. The issue is how do you make your team better so that it becomes a contending team. That's how you increase attendance. As I have stated before I would be willing to expend some of our draft and cap capital to get a Tuch like player, such as the Capitals' Tom Wilson (currently injured). If you look at our abundant draft capital the reality is that not all of them will turn into productive NHL players down the line. Why not judiciously use some of it to get immediate and future help?

I don't want to belabor my point because I don't believe that our views are in conflict. I'm just more willing to expend some resources to sooner bolster the roster than many others are. And make no mistake what my priority is. If a team offered a deal for very good to high end goalie who has plenty of game left, I would definitely utilize my assets to consummate that deal. Solidifying that critical position will do more than other transaction to make this team better. 

[sabresparaavida]

43 minutes ago, Curt said:

He is a top line forward who they are committed to for $9M for the next 5 years, with a full NMC.  He might not be someone who you would want as a core piece, but he has been committed to as such.

If his play slips years down the line, I guess he could be bought out, but I don’t think that is Adams’ go to plan.  Buyouts are costly too.

Unfortunately it’s looking more and more likely that Gauthier will be off the board before Sabres pick.

My hesitancy to say Skinner is a core piece is due to him not being signed by KA, he was already here when KA became GM so he may not be as critical to KA’s plan.

[Curt]

52 minutes ago, sabresparaavida said:

My hesitancy to say Skinner is a core piece is due to him not being signed by KA, he was already here when KA became GM so he may not be as critical to KA’s plan.

I guess it depends on your point of view.

From my perspective and definition of Core, the financials play into it.  Sabres are committed to Skinner on a long term, nearly unmovable contract.  He is an important, locked piece.  Core, in my opinion.

Core piece doesn’t necessarily mean the same thing as best player.  For example, when I look back over the Sabres’ past 6 years, Kyle Okposo is definitely a core piece of that era.  At the same time, I’m not sure if he was one of the 5 best players at any point over those 6 years.

 

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, sabresparaavida said:

My hesitancy to say Skinner is a core piece is due to him not being signed by KA, he was already here when KA became GM so he may not be as critical to KA’s plan.

Skinner wasn't signed on KA's watch but he certainly is a core player on the team that KA currently oversees. As others have stated due to his contract it is unlikely that he will be moved in the foreseeable future. As it stands, he is a first line player and one of our top goal scorers. Hopefully, he will continue to maintain that level of productivity for the next few years. Especially because of his sizeable contract Skinner will be expected to be a core player for this GM. 

[shrader]

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Skinner wasn't signed on KA's watch but he certainly is a core player on the team that KA currently oversees. As others have stated due to his contract it is unlikely that he will be moved in the foreseeable future. As it stands, he is a first line player and one of our top goal scorers. Hopefully, he will continue to maintain that level of productivity for the next few years. Especially because of his sizeable contract Skinner will be expected to be a core player for this GM. 

I suppose one might want to consider selling high, especially after what happened after the last nearly identical high, but yeah, the contract kills that thought.  I just wish we could see what he would have done without Krueger.  Those two seasons are sandwiched in between a pair of 63 point seasons with 40 and 33 goals. 

[Taro T]

20 minutes ago, shrader said:

I suppose one might want to consider selling high, especially after what happened after the last nearly identical high, but yeah, the contract kills that thought.  I just wish we could see what he would have done without Krueger.  Those two seasons are sandwiched in between a pair of 63 point seasons with 40 and 33 goals. 

Only problem w/ having a Krueger-less 2 seasons is we might very well now have Botterill overseeing the team.  Which would still leave the team w/ no goaltending but a glut of RHD rather than LHD.  (Sometimes it's like we're living through a really bad hockey themed Twix commericial.)  

Also, expect we'd have a plethora of 3rd liner wingers getting asked to play C &/or on the 2nd line.

We'd also likely have suffered through just as bad a HC as J Botts only other hire was just as bad.  Though he likely wouldn't have run a soccer team.

We'd be in roughly the same spot except we'd probably still have all the cliquishness we ended up w/ during J Botts tenure any way so the future would still be Eichel & a prayer w/ no guarantee Reinhart would've signed whatever offer J Botts made w/out going to arbitration making it a 1 year deal.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Taro T

[JohnC]

11 minutes ago, shrader said:

I suppose one might want to consider selling high, especially after what happened after the last nearly identical high, but yeah, the contract kills that thought.  I just wish we could see what he would have done without Krueger.  Those two seasons are sandwiched in between a pair of 63 point seasons with 40 and 33 goals. 

If Skinner can be a 30 plus goal scorer for the next few years,  then considering our cap situation he is not only not an albatross but a more reasonably overpriced player. What's a fair valued contract for Skinner? Assuming he stays in the 30 goal range I would say $6-7 M. He is currently getting paid at a $9 M rate. That's an overpayment that this franchise can easily absorb for the next few years. 

[Flashsabre]

https://thehockeywriters.com/2022-nhl-draft-guide/

A good site for those that want to dive in to the draft.

[PerreaultForever]

8 hours ago, Curt said:

He is a top line forward who they are committed to for $9M for the next 5 years, with a full NMC.  He might not be someone who you would want as a core piece, but he has been committed to as such.

If his play slips years down the line, I guess he could be bought out, but I don’t think that is Adams’ go to plan.  Buyouts are costly too.

Unfortunately it’s looking more and more likely that Gauthier will be off the board before Sabres pick.

idk if the money automatically makes him "core".  Isn't the general GM etiquette he was his guy he's not my guy? They will keep him, they have to, and they'll never say he's not a key player. They will use him if they can, as Granato did, but I don't think he's part of the core Adams sees moving forward.

Now more importantly to the bold, why? Which players are you bumping back below him? I see him going around #8 - #12 ish. 

I like my top 8 so if he's gone ahead of any of them then the guy left is my pick at 9. 

[shrader]

32 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Only problem w/ having a Krueger-less 2 seasons is we might very well now have Botterill overseeing the team.  Which would still leave the team w/ no goaltending but a glut of RHD rather than LHD.  (Sometimes it's like we're living through a really bad hockey themed Twix commericial.)  

Also, expect we'd have a plethora of 3rd liner wingers getting asked to play C &/or on the 2nd line.

We'd also likely have suffered through just as bad a HC as J Botts only other hire was just as bad.  Though he likely wouldn't have run a soccer team.

We'd be in roughly the same spot except we'd probably still have all the cliquishness we ended up w/ during J Botts tenure any way so the future would still be Eichel & a prayer w/ no guarantee Reinhart would've signed whatever offer J Botts made w/out going to arbitration making it a 1 year deal.

But hey, if we still had Botterill, we'd probably have gotten Vegas' long shot 8th prospect and 4 cap dumps instead of the Eichel return.  I joke, but looking back, that longer shot prospect actually looks pretty good right now.

Edited May 26, 2022 by shrader

[spndnchz]

Just needed to draft a guy with “Mac” or “Mc” in their last name. 

[sabresparaavida]

37 minutes ago, JohnC said:

If Skinner can be a 30 plus goal scorer for the next few years,  then considering our cap situation he is not only not an albatross but a more reasonably overpriced player. What's a fair valued contract for Skinner? Assuming he stays in the 30 goal range I would say $6-7 M. He is currently getting paid at a $9 M rate. That's an overpayment that this franchise can easily absorb for the next few years. 

I think 6.5-7 would be reasonable for Skinner if he continues production similar to this past year. 
 

interestingly enough, I was looking at Skinners point totals, and he hit 63 points last year, which equals his career high- which he has now hit 4 times. 

[Curt]

1 hour ago, shrader said:

I suppose one might want to consider selling high, especially after what happened after the last nearly identical high, but yeah, the contract kills that thought.  I just wish we could see what he would have done without Krueger.  Those two seasons are sandwiched in between a pair of 63 point seasons with 40 and 33 goals. 

Skinner has a full no movement clause, which he wanted specifically because he wanted to play close to home.  He is untradable for all practical purposes.

[Curt]

23 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

idk if the money automatically makes him "core".  Isn't the general GM etiquette he was his guy he's not my guy? They will keep him, they have to, and they'll never say he's not a key player. They will use him if they can, as Granato did, but I don't think he's part of the core Adams sees moving forward.

Now more importantly to the bold, why? Which players are you bumping back below him? I see him going around #8 - #12 ish. 

I like my top 8 so if he's gone ahead of any of them then the guy left is my pick at 9. 

To me “core” is the guys who committed to for the long haul and will be important pieces moving forward.  Skinner is going to be here scoring goals in the top 6 for the foreseeable future.  That’s enough for me to call him core.

But annyyhooo....... Gauthier.  I would love to take him at 9.  In things I’ve seen recently, league sources are apparently telling people that many teams are very high on Gauthier.  He keeps getting mocked higher and higher.  Who knows what will happen but seems he could go as high as 5ish.  Savoie is someone who seems to be dropping.  I would be ok with him at 9 too.  Also, don’t be surprised if a LHD goes in the top 8 too, Mateychuk, Mintyukov, and Korchinski could all go in the top 15.  Again, who knows.

[dudacek]

Looks to me like there is no chance for Wright, Cooley, Slavkovsky or Nemec at 9, a slim chance of Jiricek, Kemell, Savoie or Gauthier at 9 and a good chance of Nazar, Kaspar, Yurov, Geekie, Miroshnechenko, Lekkerimaki, Lambert, Mintyukov, or Korchinski at 9.

But the scouts seem so divided that one of my first 8 should almost certainly be there at 9 and some in that top 17 might even slip to 28.

Before you get too excited though, that also means you should be bracing for the Sabres to ignore the "top 8" player that drops to them at 9, or the "top 17" at 16 in favour of someone like Ostlund, Ohgren, Howard, Snuggerud, McGroarty, Mateychuk, Del Bell Belluz, Beck, Chesley, Bischel, Kulich, Trikozov and more.

You can find most, if not all these names in the top 20 on one of the many lists out there.

It smells like a draft where one scout's 5 is another's 15, and one's 15 will be another's 35.

You shouldn't be counting on the Sabres list to match yours.

Edited May 26, 2022 by dudacek

[SDS]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Looks to me like there is no chance for Wright, Cooley, Slavkovsky or Nemec at 9, a slim chance of Jiricek, Kemell, Savoie or Gauthier at 9 and a good chance of Nazar, Kaspar, Yurov, Geekie, Miroshnechenko, Lekkerimaki, Lambert, Mintyukov, or Korchinski at 9.

But the scouts seem so divided that one of my first 8 should almost certainly be there at 9 and some in that top 17 might even slip to 28.

Before you get too excited though, that also means you should be bracing for the Sabres to ignore the "top 8" player that drops to them at 9, or the "top 17" at 16 in favour of someone like Ostlund, Ohgren, Howard, Snuggerud, McGroarty, Mateychuk, Del Bell Belluz, Beck, Chesley, Bischel, Kulich, Trikozov and more.

You can find most, if not all these names in the top 20 on one of the many lists out there.

It smells like a draft where one scout's 5 is another's 15, and one's 15 will be another's 35.

You shouldn't be counting on the Sabres list to match yours.

Thank you. I’m lacing up my ***** kicking boots right now.

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

Looks to me like there is no chance for Wright, Cooley, Slavkovsky or Nemec at 9,

The only way you get one of them is if you swap #9 plus ? for one of those top 4 picks. NJ is apparently entertaining offers for the #2 pick. I don't think I'd make that deal, but I'd give them a phone call before they pick to see.  

[woods-racer]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

Looks to me like there is no chance for Wright, Cooley, Slavkovsky or Nemec at 9, a slim chance of Jiricek, Kemell, Savoie or Gauthier at 9 and a good chance of Nazar, Kaspar, Yurov, Geekie, Miroshnechenko, Lekkerimaki, Lambert, Mintyukov, or Korchinski at 9.

But the scouts seem so divided that one of my first 8 should almost certainly be there at 9 and some in that top 17 might even slip to 28.

Before you get too excited though, that also means you should be bracing for the Sabres to ignore the "top 8" player that drops to them at 9, or the "top 17" at 16 in favour of someone like Ostlund, Ohgren, Howard, Snuggerud, McGroarty, Mateychuk, Del Bell Belluz, Beck, Chesley, Bischel, Kulich, Trikozov and more.

You can find most, if not all these names in the top 20 on one of the many lists out there.

It smells like a draft where one scout's 5 is another's 15, and one's 15 will be another's 35.

You shouldn't be counting on the Sabres list to match yours.

So an inevitable Liger/buffnill meltdown coming from opposite ends of the spectrum?

Blasphemy.

[Flashsabre]

35 minutes ago, woods-racer said:

So an inevitable Liger/buffnill meltdown coming from opposite ends of the spectrum?

Blasphemy.

This isn’t a year for anyone to have a meltdown.  There are a bunch of players all in the same general area. No one really stands out. 

Its going to be fascinating to see how the top 10 plays out. The Sabres will have some interesting options at #9 and there will be a couple players available that some probably didn’t think would be there.

A couple years  ago I got caught up in the Rossi tunnel vision and couldn’t believe when they took Quinn. I learned a lesson. I trust this staff will pick a good player at #9, someone who fits the culture and is talented,

[GASabresIUFAN]

https://www.nhl.com/news/ottawa-may-trade-no-7-pick-in-2022-nhl-draft/c-334316764

Would you trade up to 7 if Jirecek or Nemec were available?

[Weave]

8 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

This isn’t a year for anyone to have a meltdown.  There are a bunch of players all in the same general area. No one really stands out. 

When has that ever stopped anyone?

[thewookie1]

7 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

https://www.nhl.com/news/ottawa-may-trade-no-7-pick-in-2022-nhl-draft/c-334316764

Would you trade up to 7 if Jirecek or Nemec were available?

Nemec, yes

Jirecek, no (his skating concerns me)

I'd be more worried about the potential price; 9 & our 3rd or 4th would be the most I'm giving to move up 2 spots