I think this is a bad look from Lindy complaining about technology

[Marvin]

13 hours ago, Malazan said:

The devils fans think the game has passed Lindy by and he's basically a 'Hockey Neanderthal'

Welcome to the board!

5 hours ago, Southtown Tommy said:

A much better place to develop critical thinking skills is when you have time to think, opposed to just reacting.   That is outside of the game during film study, but not during the game. I get what Lindy is saying.

Welcome back!

[Doohicksie]

5 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

No more composite sticks. Back to wood!

To be honest, I would be in favor of this moving.  Possibly look at other woods than the hardwoods they've been using.  Find something a little whippier.

4 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

I hate those iPads  Every time the grand kids come over they just want to be on that thing all day

I understand his frustration

[Doohicksie]

3 hours ago, Pimlach said:

In my experience as a father of three, a former youth hockey coach, a board member of various organizations, and a recently retired engineering executive now consultant, young  people today do not lack critical thinking skills compared to other times.  

Actually I try to think  that we are at an inflection point of tech/learning, that may be the biggest since the advent of writing.

In early classical Greece, memory was the accepted way of learning.  If something was worth knowing, it was worth memorizing.  This applied not only to analytical things like math and science, but to the arts and literature as well.  Plays were learned and came down through generations by memorization, for instance.  Effective speeches and rhetoric were memorized.

Writing was first used for transactional record keeping- I've getting 10 sheep from you for 20 bottles of wine- I'm giving you 15 bottles now and owe you 5 more... that sort of thing.

When people started writing down speeches and plays, the elder generations mocked the younger upstarts, calling them intellectually lazy.

That's basically what's happening today.  Us old farts look at the way younger people use electronic devices and the internet and sneer at them.  But that's becoming the knowledge of the future. 

• It used to be that one had to memorize knowledge.
• Then one had to learn the knowledge with aid of written reference.
• Now one needs to know how to find knowledge.

We've already seen examples of inventions and ideas coming from rank amateurs that are changing the world (think of the drone geeks in Ukraine using their drones in new ways to defend against Russian troops).  The future way of think is here; those of us in the older generation are being left behind.  It happens tot he best of us, Lindy.

[Weave]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

the players may be focusing on figuring out what happened on their own rather than w/ the help of the coaches.  Which would imply Ruff has lost the team, though the record itself implies that.

I think this segment here is the beginning and the end of it.  I highly doubt Ruff is actually anti new technology.  And I don’t think he is so dinosaur to be that ineffective.  I think it is simply that in a lost season he’s lost the room and the bench.  And that happens to dinosaurs as well as current gen.

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

the players may be focusing on figuring out what happened on their own rather than w/ the help of the coaches.  Which would imply Ruff has lost the team, though the record itself implies that.

I think this segment here is the beginning and the end of it.  I highly doubt Ruff is actually anti new technology.  And I don’t think he is so dinosaur to be that ineffective.  I think it is simply that in a lost season he’s lost the room and the bench.  And that happens to dinosaurs as well as current gen.

[Marvin]

Let me give you another point of view on the introduction of technology into a new environment: calculators in the math classroom.

In 1990, I was teaching guinea pig at the front end of math reform with the introduction of graphing calculators to the classroom.  In 1992, I was again a guinea pig for the introduction of reform math to calculus.  ("Harvard Calculus")  I was in an interesting philosophical position.  I knew from experience how technology could free up time and energy, but I also knew what value would be lost by completely omitting classical methods.  I knew the holes in the traditional curriculum which the reform could fix but saw the potential flaws with having technology in the classroom.

That's why I can't take @SDS's and others' view that starts and ends with Lindy's a neanderthal and therefore is no longer a competent coach.  (I am willing to even accept the first part ad arguendum.  I don't see why the second part automatically follows from the first without a lot more evidence.)  Conversely, the conscientious players should have the iPads handy for immediate feedback on their play on the ice because that is the best way to learn from experience because the ideas are fresh in your mind.

The issue here really is the temperament of the players.  Based upon my time as a teacher of people their age, I am going to be very harsh here and say that it is much more likely that the least experienced players will use the iPad to find excuses or use the evidence as a crutch rather than in a mature, responsible manner.  That is why my reading of the piece interprets Ruff's annoyance as, "some of the kids are trying to evade responsibility and the technology is giving them an extra crutch."

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, Doohickie said:

Actually I try to think  that we are at an inflection point of tech/learning, that may be the biggest since the advent of writing.

In early classical Greece, memory was the accepted way of learning.  If something was worth knowing, it was worth memorizing.  This applied not only to analytical things like math and science, but to the arts and literature as well.  Plays were learned and came down through generations by memorization, for instance.  Effective speeches and rhetoric were memorized.

Writing was first used for transactional record keeping- I've getting 10 sheep from you for 20 bottles of wine- I'm giving you 15 bottles now and owe you 5 more... that sort of thing.

When people started writing down speeches and plays, the elder generations mocked the younger upstarts, calling them intellectually lazy.

That's basically what's happening today.  Us old farts look at the way younger people use electronic devices and the internet and sneer at them.  But that's becoming the knowledge of the future. 

• It used to be that one had to memorize knowledge.
• Then one had to learn the knowledge with aid of written reference.
• Now one needs to know how to find knowledge.

We've already seen examples of inventions and ideas coming from rank amateurs that are changing the world (think of the drone geeks in Ukraine using their drones in new ways to defend against Russian troops).  The future way of think is here; those of us in the older generation are being left behind.  It happens tot he best of us, Lindy.

Getting slightly off-topic, the SIGNIFICANT downside (IMHO, YMMV) to having important information "stored" electronically is the ephemerality of it.  It is very easy to edit items after the fact without it being readily apparent that the items have in fact been edited.

[Pimlach]

5 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Actually I try to think  that we are at an inflection point of tech/learning, that may be the biggest since the advent of writing.

In early classical Greece, memory was the accepted way of learning.  If something was worth knowing, it was worth memorizing.  This applied not only to analytical things like math and science, but to the arts and literature as well.  Plays were learned and came down through generations by memorization, for instance.  Effective speeches and rhetoric were memorized.

Writing was first used for transactional record keeping- I've getting 10 sheep from you for 20 bottles of wine- I'm giving you 15 bottles now and owe you 5 more... that sort of thing.

When people started writing down speeches and plays, the elder generations mocked the younger upstarts, calling them intellectually lazy.

That's basically what's happening today.  Us old farts look at the way younger people use electronic devices and the internet and sneer at them.  But that's becoming the knowledge of the future. 

• It used to be that one had to memorize knowledge.
• Then one had to learn the knowledge with aid of written reference.
• Now one needs to know how to find knowledge.

We've already seen examples of inventions and ideas coming from rank amateurs that are changing the world (think of the drone geeks in Ukraine using their drones in new ways to defend against Russian troops).  The future way of think is here; those of us in the older generation are being left behind.  It happens tot he best of us, Lindy.

Great post.  Yes indeed, kids learn and teachers teach differently today compared to when I was young and technology “advances” is a big reason.  I had nuns forcing us to spell, forcing multiple tables and long division.   I was very concerned raising my kids and seeing how little emphasis went into reading novels, spelling, grammar, research term papers, and even basic arithmetic/math   

I went to PTA meetings and had public school English teachers tell me “we might read a few books this semester, but we will watch the movies”.  They told me spelling and grammar is not stressed because word processing software fixes all of that.  My daughter on the other hand, went to an all girls private school and it was just the opposite, she had more of a classical education.  

None of my three did much with math or science and it seems very little is required theses days.  Many kids avoid STEM because it’s hard and they can’t get A’s, so why hurt your GPA? .  I think that needs to change if we are going to compete in the future.  

I have hired and mentored hundreds of young engineers and for the most part they give me hope.  They seem to learn less fundamentals in school, but are more adept at application of what they know.   These past 5 years I detected differences with gen Z  vice millennials in the work place.  That’s another subject. 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Pimlach

[Contempt]

23 hours ago, SDS said:

From the Buffalo News:

Lessons from Lindy

Devils coach Lindy Ruff was asked a routine question after Thursday's morning skate about how technology mushroomed around the game in recent years and had an interesting take on the proliferation of it on benches during games. 

"I think the iPads sometimes are a distraction. Players are grabbing for iPads constantly," Ruff said. "There's times I'd just like to take the iPads and throw them away. I sense that almost everybody's looking at them.

"Sometimes when there's a mistake, they're looking at justification, that it might not be me.  If you're barking out something we weren't good enough at, automatically somebody's reaching back and grabbing it and they want to go,  'Come on, that wasn't me.'"

Sounds like a great President of Hockey Ops.

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Getting slightly off-topic, the SIGNIFICANT downside (IMHO, YMMV) to having important information "stored" electronically is the ephemerality of it.  It is very easy to edit items after the fact without it being readily apparent that the items have in fact been edited.

That is almost verbatim the argument I gave my wife when I wanted to order articles from the Thomas Jefferson estate on the debates about religion and the Constitution.  I wanted hard copies and electronic copies.  (Aside:  everyone who tells you that all of the Founding Fathers believed we should be a Christian nation are wrong.)

23 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Great post.  Yes indeed, kids learn and teachers teach differently today compared to when I was young and technology “advances” is a big reason.  I had nuns forcing us to spell, forcing multiple tables and long division.   I was very concerned raising my kids and seeing how little emphasis went into reading novels, spelling, grammar, research term papers, and even basic arithmetic/math   

I went to PTA meetings and had public school English teachers tell me “we might read a few books this semester, but we will watch the movies”.  They told me spelling and grammar is not stressed because word processing software fixes all of that.  My daughter on the other hand, went to an all girls private school and it was just the opposite, she had more of a classical education.  

None of my three did much with math or science and it seems very little is required theses days.  Many kids avoid STEM because it’s hard and they can’t get A’s, so why hurt your GPA? .  I think that needs to charge if we are going to compete in the future.  

I have hired and mentored hundreds of young engineers and for the most part they give me hope.  They seem to learn less fundamentals but are more adept at application of what they know.   These past 5 years I detected differences with gen Z, vice millennials in the work place.  That’s another subject. 

And this is part of the trade-off with progress.  I can't stand spell-checkers which change "gaol" to "goal" when I write a comment about the old British spelling of "jail."  I really can't stand grammar checkers which are typically wrong with collective nouns.  I have turned off auto-correct on every device I own; I only use these tools to double-check when I proofread.

I am going to make an argument against replacing reading with movies and against using mathematical technology over learning how to solve equations manually and write proofs.

To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, we first need to learn blocking and tackling before we learn to make plays.  Musicians need to learn scales, arpeggios, etc. to improve performance.

Everyone needs to learn and improve their blocking and tackling of reading so that you can understand directions on government forms, the content of books, what is in an e-mail, etc. -- in short, how to communicate from a keyboard.  Novels teach you how to assemble and retain information about place, background, character, content, etc. over their length and force you to increase your attention span.

All STEM jobs which I know of eventually require that you are (or, at least were) adept at symbolic manipulation; that in turn start with the blocking and tackling of counting and then arithmetic.  And for those of us who wanted to be research mathematicians, we needed to learn to write novels which follow the laws of logic, i.e., proofs.

[Marvin]

On 4/23/2022 at 6:36 PM, SDS said:

62 year coach with +2 readers and about to be fired, complains that his team uses technology too much. Are these not professional hockey players? Do they not know if it’s a useful tool or not?

It might be a useful tool that the players are using too much or are even misusing.  This is not binary.  In fact, I would bet:

1. It's a useful tool for coaches and players.

2. Coaches who don't adapt to it quickly enough will be out of a job before long.

3. Conscientious, mature players use it to improve.

4. Immature players will use the video to deflect blame; the worst of these will use the first time they are right as an excuse to ignore the coach.

5. Players may lose focus on the game because they are overly focused on the video, whether they be in group 3 or group 4.

6. Teams need the proper leadership on the bench and in the dressing room to knock some sense into players in group 4.

7. Addendum: Lindy might be misusing the tech as well.  His assistants need to help on this front.

Every introduction of technology where it hasn't been before has conflicts like this.

Why are you landing on me like I am making excuses for Lindy and don't see the other side?  In fact, I am largely on the other side.  I just think Lindy has a point which the players should account for and learn from.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Marvin, Sabres Fan
Forgot the worst offence from math reform: the advocates misused the tech for which they were advocating!

[FogBat]

21 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

I hate those iPads  Every time the grand kids come over they just want to be on that thing all day

I understand his frustration

You are really showing your age.

[Doohicksie]

16 hours ago, FogBat said:

You are really showing your age.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

[FogBat]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

You say that like it's a bad thing.

I was just messing with him. As it is, I turn 52 today.

Edited April 26, 2022 by FogBat

[Andrew Amerk]

What’s an eye pad?

[Doohicksie]

7 hours ago, FogBat said:

I was just messing with him. As it is, I turn 52 today.

A wee tot!

6 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

What’s an eye pad?

7 hours ago, FogBat said:

I was just messing with him. As it is, I turn 52 today.

Today?  Happy birthday!

[LGR4GM]

7 hours ago, FogBat said:

I was just messing with him. As it is, I turn 52 today.

Happy birthday

[Stoner]

Lindy's not wrong. He's railing against the misuse of technology. You put your gizmos down when dinner is served.

[Marvin]

8 hours ago, FogBat said:

I was just messing with him. As it is, I turn 52 today.

Happy B-day!

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

Lindy's not wrong. He's railing against the misuse of technology. You put your gizmos down when dinner is served.

He's railing against his perceived misuse of tech.

[FogBat]

3 hours ago, Doohickie said:

A wee tot!

Today?  Happy birthday!

 

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Happy birthday

 

2 hours ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

Happy B-day!

TYVM, SabreSpace brethren!

[postseasonblues]

Lindy says sometimes this an issue, then the internet twists it into this.