Did not realize the Sabres were 31st in attendance...pathetic

[North Buffalo]

Given the sabres record in November December and January it makes sense attendance was low especially as covid spiked again... been seeing more fans of late but I get it they have been bad for a while and it took some show me for fans to return... gotta believe if they pick up a goalie in the offseason.. have a solid draft and maybe sign a good free agent fans will return... KA and Donny G seem to be developing a good product and I have some optimism... Still depends of offseason. 

[LabattBlue]

Next year maybe slightly better, but STH  are not coming back in numbers until AFTER a season ending in playoffs 

Edited April 24, 2022 by LabattBlue

[mjd1001]

Fans will start coming back pretty quickly when the team shows they are going to be a serious playoff contender for 30-40 games.

If they are in playoff position next season once the NFL season comes to an end the arena should be mostly filled on a nightly basis.

[freester]

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

Next year maybe slightly better, but STH  are not coming back in numbers until AFTER a season ending in playoffs 

I disagree. There will be a huge increase in STH this year. If Canadian border is wide open without testing than attendance will be much improved. 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Certain people are going to have a hard time letting go of the "Sabres Suck" narrative. Same kind of people ragging on Josh Allen even while he's tearing up the NFL.

Who is ragging on Josh Allen? He's overwhelmingly recognized as one of the top qbs in the league. 

[French Collection]

This is not enough to tilt the scales but I hope to make it to a few games next season. I haven’t been to the KBC in a few years.

[Pimlach]

10 hours ago, MBD said:

The team has done poorly.  But last I checked, they don't manage, coach or play.  They kept Ruff and Regier after buying the team and gave them all the money they needed.  They failed.  Then they moved on, hiring a fan favorite (Ted Nolan) and a SC-winning HC (Bylsma), who also failed.  They drafted a "generational" player in Eichel...and still kept losing.  But since the losing has been since they bought the team, it's all on them, right?  So the only conclusion that can be reached is they should sell the team. 

Again, do you favor them doing that.  And if the team moves, because the new owner sees the attendance and would rather take a chance in a bigger market, what then?

Or do you think they're intentionally trying to make the Sabres bad.  If so, what can they do to make it good?

They did not hire Nolan, LaFontaine did; or Bylsma, Murray did.  They hired the front office people and that has been the problem.  For the Bills, they hit the jackpot with McDermott, who helped get us Beane.  The NFL facilitates coaching search for teams, when the Pegula’s dumped Whaley and Brandon and they got better help.   
 

Eichel is not a generational talent.  When healthy he can generate scoring stats in the top 10 for centers, maybe top 5 someday.    
 

I like the Pegula’s.  They have been great for Buffalo.  I hope they don’t sell. I think the organization under Adams is doing a fine job rebuilding and I sure would not rock the boat with a new owner.  

Edited April 24, 2022 by Pimlach

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Who is ragging on Josh Allen? He's overwhelmingly recognized as one of the top qbs in the league. 

Now. But for how long did people discount his abilities because they were so invested in his draft narrative?

[SabresVet]

5 hours ago, JohnC said:

The owners are doing well with the Bills because after a number of misfires he hired the right HC and GM, and then allowed them to do their jobs without any consequential interference. The Pegulas hired a recently fired coach in Rex Ryan because he said he wanted to hire a prominent name and give this nondescript franchise some relevancy. It was a dumb and damaging reason to hire him. Eventually he got it right and then good things followed. My impression (can't say for sure) is that he is belatedly following the right hiring course for the hockey franchise. 

Take it FWIW, but Paul Hamilton said once that the Pegula's were (and I'm paraphrasing) not keen in retrospect on granting so much authority to McBeane.  And that makes sense, because both are delusional about anything sports and are above all criticism.  They've never looked in the mirror to acknowledge they're the root cause of the Sabres' woes.  The bad hires in key management positions and meddling in personnel should have demonstrated they are clueless, but alas no.  They're the modern embodiment of "the emperor has no clothes."  

As for the attendance numbers, if you take out the Classic game in Hamilton, Buffalo is under 9,500 for the season.

[JohnC]

9 hours ago, SabresVet said:

Take it FWIW, but Paul Hamilton said once that the Pegula's were (and I'm paraphrasing) not keen in retrospect on granting so much authority to McBeane.  And that makes sense, because both are delusional about anything sports and are above all criticism.  They've never looked in the mirror to acknowledge they're the root cause of the Sabres' woes.  The bad hires in key management positions and meddling in personnel should have demonstrated they are clueless, but alas no.  They're the modern embodiment of "the emperor has no clothes."  

As for the attendance numbers, if you take out the Classic game in Hamilton, Buffalo is under 9,500 for the season.

It doesn't matter that what Paul Hamilton reported about the owners' retrospective about granting authority to McBeane is accurate or not. It could be true or not.  What matters is that the football staff currently has the authority to make football decisions without the interference of the owners. The results are indisputable: The Bills  are acknowledged to be SB contenders by almost everyone involved in the sport. 

The same learning cycle of how the owners conducted themselves applied to their hockey business, as it originally did with the Bills. The owners were very involved in the hockey operation when they bought the team. The results were predictably bad. Are the owners now intimately involved with the hockey operation? My sense is they are not, or at least significantly less so. And it shouldn't be a surprise that the fortunes of the team have dramatically improved. 

With respect to the attendance, there is no question that fans expressed their disillusionment with the organization by not attending the games. No one should blame them for not willing to pay for a decade long bad product. This organization lost the trust of the fans. Long term dysfunction and a bad product will do that to any enterprise. The franchise has to now earn its lost credibility back. For a large portion of this season the Sabres were drawing 4000-6000 people at the arena. Recently, it has doubled in size with a sellout for the Rick tribute. Yesterday's game drew close to 13,000 very engaged fans to the game. That's progress. It's going to take time to bring back the fanbase that ownership/organization contributed in losing.  

[MBD]

6 minutes ago, JohnC said:

It doesn't matter that what Paul Hamilton reported about the owners' retrospective about granting authority to McBeane is accurate or not. It could be true or not.  What matters is that the football staff currently has the authority to make football decisions without the interference of the owners. The results are indisputable: The Bills  are acknowledged to be SB contenders by almost everyone involved in the sport. 

The same learning cycle of how the owners conducted themselves applied to their hockey business, as it originally did with the Bills. The owners were very involved in the hockey operation when they bought the team. The results were predictably bad. Are the owners now intimately involved with the hockey operation? My sense is they are not, or at least significantly less so. And it shouldn't be a surprise that the fortunes of the team have dramatically improved. 

With respect to the attendance, there is no question that fans expressed their disillusionment with the organization by not attending the games. No one should blame them for not willing to pay for a decade long bad product. This organization lost the trust of the fans. Long term dysfunction and a bad product will do that to any enterprise. The franchise has to now earn its lost credibility back. For a large portion of this season the Sabres were drawing 4000-6000 people at the arena. Recently, it has doubled in size with a sellout for the Rick tribute. Yesterday's game drew close to 13,000 very engaged fans to the game. That's progress. It's going to take time to bring back the fanbase that ownership/organization contributed in losing.  

I'll assume Hamilton meant that the Pegulas weren't too keen initially on giving so much control to McBeane, but there's no way they still feel that way given their enormous success.  So I can see how seeing the success the Bills have had with that model made them back-off when it came to the Sabres. 

[CallawaySabres]

Hardly pathetic, this team became unwatchable on tv, let alone paying to see them.

[Taro T]

22 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I'm shocked we weren't last.

At least some of the Canadian clubs had nobody in the stands for a month or so., plus there's Arizona.   Would've believed Sabres were in any of slots 28-32 attendance-wise.

[JohnC]

12 hours ago, Pimlach said:

They did not hire Nolan, LaFontaine did; or Bylsma, Murray did.  They hired the front office people and that has been the problem.  For the Bills, they hit the jackpot with McDermott, who helped get us Beane.  The NFL facilitates coaching search for teams, when the Pegula’s dumped Whaley and Brandon and they got better help.   
 

Eichel is not a generational talent.  When healthy he can generate scoring stats in the top 10 for centers, maybe top 5 someday.    
 

I like the Pegula’s.  They have been great for Buffalo.  I hope they don’t sell. I think the organization under Adams is doing a fine job rebuilding and I sure would not rock the boat with a new owner.  

There is an irony being exhibited by those arguing for the Pegulas to sell. If new owners bought the team what we would want is for them to conduct themselves in the same manner in which the team is currently being run. The franchise seems to have turned the corner and is now run in a smart manner. Why would anyone advocate for an ownership change now and risk a change in operation by a new owner? That makes no sense. 

[Taro T]

22 hours ago, MBD said:

Nope.  Which is why I said "rumor has it." 

But it wouldn't surprise me.  Terry's the hockey lover and the franchise (obviously) hasn't done well and reportedly isn't making much money.  The fans seem to hate them so might be a good idea to sell and let someone have a crack at it, allowing them to focus on the Bills, their real prize. 

And Kim Pegula loves the town she grew up in.  So much so, that when Curt Styres pulled his box lax team out of Ra-cha-cha that she & hubby brought an expansion team back there.

It doesn't make sense that she'd want the Sabres out of Buffalo or want to dump the team when there is light at the end of the tunnel (hopefully it's not just another on-coming freight train again) on both the performance and therefore attendance fronts).  Bills fans don't hate the Pegulas.  Bandits fans don't hate them.  Jessie's fans don't hate her parents (presumably 😉 ).  Kin-ig-hit Hawk fans don't hate them.  It's pretty much just hockey fans that want to be rid of them, but a winning record will mitigate that.  MHO.  YMMV.

 

22 hours ago, JujuFish said:

Three seasons.  That was the longest streak without playoffs that Sabres fans have ever had to endure.  Three.  2001-04.

 

Counting this soon-to-be-done season, the Pegulas have owned the Sabres for 11 full seasons.  We have not made playoffs even a single time during this ownership.

 

Something is pathetic here, and it's not the lack of support  from the fans.

It has been a truly horrific run.  But there is light.  And IF Adams & Granato are the right guys, they've shown in their other sports endeavors that they'll trust the people with the knowledge in the particular sport to do their job.  Stinks that we're still waiting for proof they've found the right guys a decade later, but at least the signs are FINALLY promising.

Can't do a thing about the past.  The future however ...

[Taro T]

14 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Next year maybe slightly better, but STH  are not coming back in numbers until AFTER a season ending in playoffs 

There are going to be AT LEAST 4,000 more STHers next season, & would almost have money down on there being at least 6,000 more, simply due to the border being open.  Several 1000 Canadaian STHers already have had their deposits down and didn't lose their seniority/ seats because the Sabres cut them some slack due to the border being closed.

Now, if by "in numbers" you mean getting to 14-16,000, yes, but that's the case regardless for any sports team not based in NYC or TO.

[JohnC]

8 minutes ago, Taro T said:

There are going to be AT LEAST 4,000 more STHers next season, & would almost have money down on there being at least 6,000 more, simply due to the border being open.  Several 1000 Canadaian STHers already have had their deposits down and didn't lose their seniority/ seats because the Sabres cut them some slack due to the border being closed.

Now, if by "in numbers" you mean getting to 14-16,000, yes, but that's the case regardless for any sports team not based in NYC or TO.

You go to many Sabre games and have a good feel for those in attendance. What would be the affect on ST sales and attendance in general if the front office acted boldly this offseason (still staying within the rebuild parameters) and added a Tuch caliber player and a high quality goalie? 

[Taro T]

16 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You go to many Sabre games and have a good feel for those in attendance. What would be the affect on ST sales and attendance in general if the front office acted boldly this offseason (still staying within the rebuild parameters) and added a Tuch caliber player and a high quality goalie? 

It would goose it a bit next season, but not appreciably over what it's already going to go up.

Where that would really show up is in single game ticket sales after the Bills season is done AND in STs the following year.

The fan base is in "show me" mode at present IMHO.  So, that roster improvement will likely bolster TV ratings in the immediate/near term, but won't bolster actual attendance until it proves out to actually keep the team entertaining & boost the numbers in the W column.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

It would goose it a bit next season, but not appreciably over what it's already going to go up.

Where that would really show up is in single game ticket sales after the Bills season is done AND in STs the following year.

The fan base is in "show me" mode at present IMHO.  So, that roster improvement will likely bolster TV ratings in the immediate/near term, but won't bolster actual attendance until it proves out to actually keep the team entertaining & boost the numbers in the W column.

I think there are still a lot of casual or barely connected "fans" (and I use the term loosely) that still think the team sucks because a) they don't actually watch games. They look at the standings. And b) the media narrative, outside of Harrington and Hamilton, is still somewhat negative. 

As I said before about Josh Allen, narratives die hard. Once established, it's really hard to get people to change how they think about something.

Edited April 24, 2022 by PromoTheRobot

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I think they're are a lot of casual or barely connected "fans" (and I use the term loosely) that still think the team sucks because a) they don't actually watch games. They look at the standings. And b) the media narrative, outside of Harrington and Hamilton, is still somewhat negative. 

As I said before about Josh Allen, narratives die hard. Once established, it's really hard to get people to change how they think about something.

Possibly.

But the most watched and talked about game was the RJ game.  That night couldn't have gone more perfectly.

The Eichel game was one w/ more eyeballs than others this year.  Krebs & Tuch scoring.  Eichel w/ the turnover leading to the game sealing goal.  Storybook. 

The last couple of games official attendance has been over 13k though actual was likely ~9k (MAYBE 10k).  So, people that haven't been are watching and, unlike in the past couple of seasons and unlike for the Bills during the drought years when they'd get a national game, the Sabres are entertaining and, for the most part, winning WHILE those fans are watching.  The best way to flip the narrative is to have people see it for themselves. 

The conversations that this kid is having w/ casual fans are actually indicating that there's some enthusiasm for the team that hasn't been there since at least drafting Dahlin & more realistically since the summer heading into Bylsma's 2nd year.

That all this is happening while they've long since been eliminated tempers things slightly, and that is why it is so important for them to play well next season out of the gate & beyond October.   But, look just at this board, and how many "faces" that we haven't seen in a long time are rejoining the discussion.  People are willing & want to come back.  The Sabres just have to do their part & people will come back.

[LGR4GM]

12 hours ago, SabresVet said:

Take it FWIW, but Paul Hamilton said once that the Pegula's were (and I'm paraphrasing) not keen in retrospect on granting so much authority to McBeane.  And that makes sense, because both are delusional about anything sports and are above all criticism.  They've never looked in the mirror to acknowledge they're the root cause of the Sabres' woes.  The bad hires in key management positions and meddling in personnel should have demonstrated they are clueless, but alas no.  They're the modern embodiment of "the emperor has no clothes."  

As for the attendance numbers, if you take out the Classic game in Hamilton, Buffalo is under 9,500 for the season.

I think that is why Adams works as GM. He let's Terry have his opinion but keeps him at arms length so ppl under him can do their jobs. 

[JohnC]

19 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I think that is why Adams works as GM. He let's Terry have his opinion but keeps him at arms length so ppl under him can do their jobs. 

The owner is the boss. If he wanted to intrude more, he could. However, he's not a billionaire because he is foolish and works against his own interest. TP recognizes that the GM he hired has put together a quality staff. He isn't oblivious to the fact that they have done a good job for him. On top of that upbeat picture it is evident it was done with a minimum amount of expenditure $$$, at least for now. From an owner's perspective: What is there to dislike? 

I agree with you that the GM knows how to sagaciously deal with the owner. He listens, and then does what needs to be done. This GM has good interpersonal skills and uses it to his benefit.

Edited April 25, 2022 by JohnC

[calti]

If the fans dont show up..what will the Pegula's do for money?

[PromoTheRobot]

11 minutes ago, calti said:

If the fans dont show up..what will the Pegula's do for money?

Sell the team.

[JohnC]

On 4/23/2022 at 5:47 PM, Doohickie said:

I think the Pegulas never trusted Murray or Botterill.  And from that, they tried to keep a hand on the tiller to steer the franchise.  The problem is, their vision didn't match the GM's vision and so you ended up with the meddling owners narrative.  Right motivation, wrong tactics.

Kevyn Adams had worked in the Sabres organization before taking the GM job.  He knew the Peguals.  He knew how to talk to the Pegulas. They trust him.  I think that's the difference. 

Murray was famous for his ZFG attitude and it filtered all the way down to the players.

Botterill is a good numbers guy, and good contracts guy, but he didn't understand how to take all those individual parts and make a whole out of them.  He knew about stats and stuff but seemed blind to the human dimension.

Kevyn was on a Stanley Cup winner and he understands what team chemistry means.  He was able to articulate what he wanted to do to the Pegulas and eventually got them on board.  I think his first summer was about trying to make Jack and Ralph happy, but thereafter you can see a steady building of a certain character, a certain identity, a certain direction for this team.  He is, I think, also smart enough to know what he doesn't know and brings in the right people to advise him.

The Sabres have reflected their GMs and HCs, and the first two GMs under the Pegulas did not bring the proper visions.

I think they hired two poor GMs and then a good GM.

What is a ZFG attitude? If I am afflicted with  a ZFG attitude do I have to seek professional help? Or does that make me a functioning misfit?