Who Is A Better at Hockey: Victor Olofsson or Samson Reinhart?

[GASabresIUFAN]

So Vic has another 3 points tonight to get to 47 for the season.  Sam scores his 29th and now has 77 points in 74 games.  I love what Vic is doing, but is this really a debate.  

That said, KA get VO signed please.  We’ve sent to much talent packing already. Time to keep someone. 
 

 

 

[bob_sauve28]

7 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

So Vic has another 3 points tonight to get to 47 for the season.  Sam scores his 29th and now has 77 points in 74 games.  I love what Vic is doing, but is this really a debate.  

That said, KA get VO signed please.  We’ve sent to much talent packing already. Time to keep someone. 
 

 

 

If VO had not gotten hurt he would be way north of 29 goals and for sure would have been at least close to 77 points, if not over that. Love Samson, but I think VO very well might be better. Let's hope he is! 

[LGR4GM]

12 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

If VO had not gotten hurt he would be way north of 29 goals and for sure would have been at least close to 77 points, if not over that. Love Samson, but I think VO very well might be better. Let's hope he is! 

He played 69 games this season to this point. Should end with 72. 

[bob_sauve28]

11 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

He played 69 games this season to this point. Should end with 72. 

He was hurt for a long stretch. 

[LGR4GM]

41 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

If VO had not gotten hurt he would be way north of 29 goals and for sure would have been at least close to 77 points, if not over that. Love Samson, but I think VO very well might be better. Let's hope he is! 

 

27 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

He played 69 games this season to this point. Should end with 72. 

 

15 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

He was hurt for a long stretch. 

If he was that hurt he shouldn't have been playing. He's streaky and probably will remain that way. I think declaring he would have another 30pts if not over that is unlikely regardless of injury. Olofsson has never been close to 60 points let alone 80 and while I think 60 is a reasonable ceiling, 80 seems above his abilities unless it is some type of 1 year fluke type of thing. 

[Taro T]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

 

If he was that hurt he shouldn't have been playing. He's streaky and probably will remain that way. I think declaring he would have another 30pts if not over that is unlikely regardless of injury. Olofsson has never been close to 60 points let alone 80 and while I think 60 is a reasonable ceiling, 80 seems above his abilities unless it is some type of 1 year fluke type of thing. 

His wrist was messed up.  He could do everything a hockey player does except shoot.  (Which was a big part of why that injury was so frustrating.)

You would've had him in the press box for 2 extra months because his shot was gone?  At the same time the Sabres had ~6 Amerks dressing on any given night?  IMHO, Granato made the right decision having him try to play through the injury & work on other aspects of his game.

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

His wrist was messed up.  He could do everything a hockey player does except shoot.  (Which was a big part of why that injury was so frustrating.)

You would've had him in the press box for 2 extra months because his shot was gone?  At the same time the Sabres had ~6 Amerks dressing on any given night?  IMHO, Granato made the right decision having him try to play through the injury & work on other aspects of his game.

 

DG said Mitts is still playing with his injury right now and won't be full healthy until next fall.  Certain injuries obviously take time to heal, but can be played through.  I  have zero problem with VO playing if the doctors agreed he couldn't make it worse and it's clearly healed.  There was an upside to him playing through the injury.  He was forced to use his passing skills, which are better then I thought, to make a positive impact.  We saw some of that improvement last night in his 3 assist game.  

[Buffalonill]

[Taro T]

Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

DG said Mitts is still playing with his injury right now and won't be full healthy until next fall.  Certain injuries obviously take time to heal, but can be played through.  I  have zero problem with VO playing if the doctors agreed he couldn't make it worse and it's clearly healed.  There was an upside to him playing through the injury.  He was forced to use his passing skills, which are better then I thought, to make a positive impact.  We saw some of that improvement last night in his 3 assist game.  

Would actually say his defensive game has improved the most during this past stretch.  But he is a good passer.  (People tend to forget that he was Reinhart's winger when Sam actually started scoring some goals that weren't from w/in 3' of the crease.)  Passing w/ the bum wrist probably did help improve that to an extent.

And agree that Mittelstadt likely still isn't 100%, though his skating finally doesn't look labored, so expect he's close to 100%.  Looking forward to seeing him next year when he is at 100%.

[LGR4GM]

16 minutes ago, Taro T said:

His wrist was messed up.  He could do everything a hockey player does except shoot.  (Which was a big part of why that injury was so frustrating.)

You would've had him in the press box for 2 extra months because his shot was gone?  At the same time the Sabres had ~6 Amerks dressing on any given night?  IMHO, Granato made the right decision having him try to play through the injury & work on other aspects of his game.

 

If his injury supposedly made him so ineffective he would have had 30 extra points without it, yes. 

[LGR4GM]

@Taro T what are you confused about? @bob_sauve28 suggested that Olofsson without injury would have 76 points and I am saying that if Olofsson was so injured that he would have had another 30 points on the year, he should not have been playing. 

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

If his injury supposedly made him so ineffective he would have had 30 extra points without it, yes. 

Doubt he'd've been a PPG player over that 30 game stretch, but who knows.  20 is probably very realistic.

And flat out don't agree that he should've been shut down.  Definitely not in this "development is the focus" season we've watched.

[LGR4GM]

Basically what I am saying is that Olofsson's injury did not keep him from scoring 76pts this year. 

Further you know he seems to never be injured year after year after year.... Sam Reinhart. Reinhart is at 74 games compared to Olofsson's 69 games but the excuse is now that Olofsson would be at Reinhart numbers without injury and I don't buy it because an injury that prevents you from getting 30 more points in a season must be more severe. 

[bob_sauve28]

I, once again, questioned Coach G with him putting VO on Tage's line, but that looks like a great move. VO is a much better passer than I thought. His assist to Dahlin last night was a beautiful play. Donny G was right again. Now that VO has line mates that score a lot I would guess his assist totals begin to rise. 

 

It also seems strange that VO is not on top PP unit. I get it, as there is plenty of talent to go around now, and he is on the second unit that gets time, but I'm sure he will be back on top unit at some point. 

 

 

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

Doubt he'd've been a PPG player over that 30 game stretch, but who knows.  20 is probably very realistic.

And flat out don't agree that he should've been shut down.  Definitely not in this "development is the focus" season we've watched.

You are trying to argue something completely unrelated please stop. If and only IF the injury was apparently so debilitating it caused Olofsson to drop 30 points on the season should he have been shut down because there is no development then. 

I am saying Olofsson is streaky, sure the injury impacted him, but it  wasn't to the tune of 30 points. I would go with maybe 10-15. 

[bob_sauve28]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Basically what I am saying is that Olofsson's injury did not keep him from scoring 76pts this year. 

Further you know he seems to never be injured year after year after year.... Sam Reinhart. Reinhart is at 74 games compared to Olofsson's 69 games but the excuse is now that Olofsson would be at Reinhart numbers without injury and I don't buy it because an injury that prevents you from getting 30 more points in a season must be more severe. 

No injury and also playing with better line mates. You think Sam would of had as many points if Asplund was his winger? Not putting down Asplund, but the guys Sam is with in Florida are way better 

[LGR4GM]

Just now, bob_sauve28 said:

No injury and also playing with better line mates. You think Sam would of had as many points if Asplund was his winger? Not putting down Asplund, but the guys Sam is with in Florida are way better 

Always a reason Sam isn't as good as he is. Linemates, injury, luck, ice time whatever it is yet we see a guy who produces with literally anyone he plays with. I think that if Reinhart was Asplund's winger, Asplund would have more points for sure. I would 100% say that without a doubt. 

[bob_sauve28]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Always a reason Sam isn't as good as he is. Linemates, injury, luck, ice time whatever it is yet we see a guy who produces with literally anyone he plays with. I think that if Reinhart was Asplund's winger, Asplund would have more points for sure. I would 100% say that without a doubt. 

Sam is excellent. Sam is a great player. I am in no way saying anything different. Wayne Gretzky wouldn't have had as many points if Kurri, Coffee and Anderson were just average players. 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, bob_sauve28 said:

If VO had not gotten hurt he would be way north of 29 goals and for sure would have been at least close to 77 points, if not over that. Love Samson, but I think VO very well might be better. Let's hope he is! 

Wow.  I hope your right but doubt it. Then again lots of players, especially forwards, have put together 3-4 great years before dropping a level.  

 

I just don't see his overall game at Sam's level.  

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Sam is excellent. Sam is a great player. I am in no way saying anything different. Wayne Gretzky wouldn't have had as many points if Kurri, Coffee and Anderson were just average players. 

Yes, Sam is a great player and Olofsson is good. That's all I am saying is that VO is a good player and a 65 point season seems like the ceiling, not 80+

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

You are trying to argue something completely unrelated please stop. If and only IF the injury was apparently so debilitating it caused Olofsson to drop 30 points on the season should he have been shut down because there is no development then. 

I am saying Olofsson is streaky, sure the injury impacted him, but it  wasn't to the tune of 30 points. I would go with maybe 10-15. 

See, this is likely why you have so many issues here w/ other posters.

You see this discussion as an argument, it isn't.  You said you would've shut Olofsson down due to a wrist injury.  That led to a question.  You then said if the wrist injury cost him 30 points over 30 games you'd've shut him down.  Truly doubt he'd've gotten a PPG during that stretch, bit won't say it was absolutely out of the question as he was their best scorer prior to the injury and others have been at a PPG pace for significant stretches since Tuch arrived.

Would you have shut him down if it only cost him 20 points?

In either case, why would you shut him down in a season devoted to development when the coach was saying from pretty much the day he came back that he can literally do everything he normally could except shoot?  His overall game seems to have improved through that stretch.  Was that not worth having him in the lineup?  If not, why not?

We get it, you're having an argument w/ Bob.  But that doesn't mean we don't want to understand your position better.  You've made statements.  Clarifications have been asked for in good faith.  Feel free to provide them or not.

Happy Friday.

[LGR4GM]

I love Victor Olofsson for the record. He is a 7th round pick who has grown each year and really worked out to develop. The dude took his one great trait and translated that into an NHL career and then when out and improved on everything else he does. I want him here for the next 4 years because I want a 30g winger on this team at a reasonable rate (4.5mil) and that is exactly what we see in VO. I just don't think he is going to eclipse what Reinhart is and that's fine, Reinhart is gone and I wish him well. 

[bob_sauve28]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Yes, Sam is a great player and Olofsson is good. That's all I am saying is that VO is a good player and a 65 point season seems like the ceiling, not 80+

And I think Olofsson is more than good. And 80 points? He is making it look easy, and if he keeps doing that, he could be a 35+ goal scorer (easily) and if playing with Tage, Tuch or other top point producers, he could top 80 points. Would not surprise me at all. 

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, Taro T said:

See, this is likely why you have so many issues here w/ other posters.

You see this discussion as an argument, it isn't.  You said you would've shut Olofsson down due to a wrist injury.  That led to a question.  You then said if the wrist injury cost him 30 points over 30 games you'd've shut him down.  Truly doubt he'd've gotten a PPG during that stretch, bit won't say it was absolutely out of the question as he was their best scorer prior to the injury and others have been at a PPG pace for significant stretches since Tuch arrived.

Would you have shut him down if it only cost him 20 points?

In either case, why would you shut him down in a season devoted to development when the coach was saying from pretty much the day he came back that he can literally do everything he normally could except shoot?  His overall game seems to have improved through that stretch.  Was that not worth having him in the lineup?  If not, why not?

We get it, you're having an argument w/ Bob.  But that doesn't mean we don't want to understand your position better.  You've made statements.  Clarifications have been asked for in good faith.  Feel free to provide them or not.

Happy Friday.

I have provided those statements and it is an argument. If Olofsson dropped 30points because his injury prevented him from being effective, I would have shut him down. You are now arguing semantics and other details. You brought in development, you brought in what if it was only 20 points. That wasn't the original question or conversation and this place LOVES to do whataboutism, in fact it thrives on it and that's fine because that is how we expand threads and move on. I am however containing my response to only the original idea that VO without injury scores another 30, I think that unlikely and if it were true that means his injury was more significant. 

The problem is this place thinks "argument" means animosity as opposed to the more academic rhetoric of it all. I don't think Bob is dumb or bad or I should be angry with him. I think he posted something I disagree with and I think we should go back and forth on it until we've explored that topic fully. You and most on this board want to treat it like a wgr call in option where you say what you want and then expect very little response and if you get more it is "not in good faith" or as nfreeman loves to do when I question him in anyway shape or form accuse me of "temper tantrums" and call any counter argument gibberish. (He does this because it is a tactic to discredit the argument against his posts and because he doesn't like me. It is why we rarely interact anymore, he does not argue in good faith). I always attempt to debate in good faith although I fail sometimes. You seem to assume I am upset in replies, usually I am bemused but maybe I should play up the other persona more. The arguments here are an exercise is debating points on the team, I personally wish some of the old posters would come back and argue their side more. Blue and Hoss were always good at it. I think Bob has made some good points and I like his optimism, I simply disagree with it. 

Good points from Bob include the linemates VO had, the injury (which we are debating), and VO's growth this year. 

 

[LGR4GM]

10 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

And I think Olofsson is more than good. And 80 points? He is making it look easy, and if he keeps doing that, he could be a 35+ goal scorer (easily) and if playing with Tage, Tuch or other top point producers, he could top 80 points. Would not surprise me at all. 

To be honest I want you to be right even though I think some don't think that is true. VO getting 80 points for say 3-4 years in a row (or there about) would be amazing and if that happens I will donate to the charity of your choice 50bucks. I just feel his ceiling is around 65. 

If VO gets 80 points or more, I will donate 50 bucks each season it occurs to the charity of Bob's choice. Just remind me and send me the charity info if/when it occurs.