KBC Renovation...all quiet?

[PromoTheRobot]

3 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

The bolded is fair.

As for the last couple of renovations, I thought these were mostly about seating/amenities, and not structural improvements -- i.e. they installed bathrooms at the top of the upper deck, added club seats and boxes, etc.

FWIW, wikipedia says this about the most recent reno:

I know the upper decks were shored up in the last renovation.

[Mustache of God]

3 hours ago, MattPie said:

Interesting about the Ralph. Somehow I suspect they could have cobbled together the infrastructure needs temporarily for the next few years until permanent solutions could be found. Run bus shuttles to the metro line, make the Skyway one-way on game days to help with the traffic, etc. I think not putting the stadium downtown will end up being a mistake for the city for decades.

I agree, not putting the stadium downtown is a poor decision for the future of Buffalo. Imagine if it went in the area of the old central terminal, and eventually built up the rail infrastructure to bring people in/out for game days. Yes, it'd be way more expensive and would take years upon year to complete, but it was radically transform that area of the city and I'd support any amount of public money being used to revitalize an economically depressed area. 

Instead we're giving welfare handouts to the Pegulas to keep their status quo alive in Orchard Park. 

[Pimlach]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

The stadium has structural damage

Other than that, there is no where to pee.  
 

I’ll never forget taking my young son to the men’s room in the 300 level.  He was washing his hand and a couple of drunks started pissing in the same sink, right next to him.  Disgusting place.  I’ve been to many stadiums, ballparks and rinks.   Never seen anything so stupid and foul as that.  

[Contempt]

26 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

BTW, the Sullivans was put into service in 1943, i.e. 30 years before the Ralph.  And the Aud opened in 1940 and closed in 1996.  The Montreal Forum opened in 1924 and closed in 1996.  The Alouettes' stadium opened in 1914 and is still in use.  Camp Nou, where FC Barcelona plays, opened in 1957. 

BTW, this is what the Alouettes stadium looked like when it was new. I think it's fair to say it's not all that old.  

The Aud opened in 1940, had a major reno 30 years later to accommodate the Sabres and closed in 1996 at 56 years old.  When the Bills stadium is slated to close it will be 54-55 years old.

Camp Nou is about to be fully renovated, at a cost of 1.3 billion Euro and Barca will have to play somewhere else for at least a season. It's also fair to say the climate in Barcelona is a little more structure friendly than Orchard Park.

The argument isn't that you can't have a building that old. Fenway and Wrigley Field are both very old and in ugly climates.  However, they are steel structures, not concrete, and that makes a difference.  It makes a difference to the preventative maintenance that can be done and the ability you have to repair and replace elements as they cease to be structurally sound.  Once reinforced concrete is compromised it really can't be fixed.  You can band aid it to extend its life, and they have, but it's not fully repairable and it will continue to degrade until it either fails or you replace it.  It's not like a girder that you can brace around, remove, and replace with a new girder (that's not exactly easy either, but it's possible most of the time).  When concrete is broken it's broken.  When the rebar starts to rust, it continues to rust, and expand, and crack the concrete from the inside.  That process has started.  It started a long time ago.  To continually patch and reinforce is to chase something that wants to turn to dust and it ceases to be cost effective to do so and sometimes it ceases to be possible. 

I didn't hear the county arguing that the structure of the upper deck wasn't a serious problem.  If it were posturing I'd expect to hear a lot more blow back.  You didn't hear it because it IS a problem and they know it's a problem and it's a problem with a very expensive solution. The county has their own engineers and they've gotten their own reports during previous renovation and maintenance work. 

[PromoTheRobot]

17 minutes ago, Mustache of God said:

I agree, not putting the stadium downtown is a poor decision for the future of Buffalo. Imagine if it went in the area of the old central terminal, and eventually built up the rail infrastructure to bring people in/out for game days. Yes, it'd be way more expensive and would take years upon year to complete, but it was radically transform that area of the city and I'd support any amount of public money being used to revitalize an economically depressed area. 

Instead we're giving welfare handouts to the Pegulas to keep their status quo alive in Orchard Park. 

Do you know what it would have been like locating the stadium in Buffalo? What would have been the O/U on lawsuits?

12 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Other than that, there is no where to pee.  
 

I’ll never forget taking my young son to the men’s room in the 300 level.  He was washing his hand and a couple of drunks started pissing in the same sink, right next to him.  Disgusting place.  I’ve been to many stadiums, ballparks and rinks.   Never seen anything so stupid and foul as that.  

It's way better now.

Edited April 19, 2022 by PromoTheRobot

[Contempt]

18 minutes ago, Mustache of God said:

I agree, not putting the stadium downtown is a poor decision for the future of Buffalo. Imagine if it went in the area of the old central terminal, and eventually built up the rail infrastructure to bring people in/out for game days. Yes, it'd be way more expensive and would take years upon year to complete, but it was radically transform that area of the city and I'd support any amount of public money being used to revitalize an economically depressed area. 

Instead we're giving welfare handouts to the Pegulas to keep their status quo alive in Orchard Park. 

Ah, the Central Terminal. Something else that was built in the wrong place a long time ago that has evaded redevelopment because it's in the wrong place.

[Eleven]

59 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

BTW, the Sullivans was put into service in 1943, i.e. 30 years before the Ralph.  And the Aud opened in 1940 and closed in 1996.  The Montreal Forum opened in 1924 and closed in 1996.  The Alouettes' stadium opened in 1914 and is still in use.  Camp Nou, where FC Barcelona plays, opened in 1957. 

And Olympic Stadium opened in 1976 and collapsed ten years later, and again in 1991, and again in 1999.   None of that matters.  We're talking (in the wrong thread) about Highmark Stadium in Orchard Park and not Camp Nou.  The only reason I brought up the boat is, well, things don't last forever.

Edited April 19, 2022 by Eleven

[LabattBlue]

This thread went off the rails quickly. 😞

[JohnC]

36 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Other than that, there is no where to pee.  
 

I’ll never forget taking my young son to the men’s room in the 300 level.  He was washing his hand and a couple of drunks started pissing in the same sink, right next to him.  Disgusting place.  I’ve been to many stadiums, ballparks and rinks.   Never seen anything so stupid and foul as that.  

Don't kid yourself, this disgusting and repulsive behavior has been going on since this stadium was built. There have always been sober pigs who pissed in the sink because they didn't want to wait in line to take a proper piss. Simply too many disgusting slobs in one location! You can't shame the shameless. 

Edited April 19, 2022 by JohnC

[Stoner]

3 hours ago, Eleven said:

The arena is 25 years old and looks like it.  Seats are torn, pieces are broken off, paint is chipping, the decor is outdated.  None of this adds up to a billion-dollar project--and the arena is used for a LOT more than the football stadium.  (I've been there for conferences, banquets, and weddings, for example, where someone paid real dollars to rent the club room and catering...this doesn't happen in Orchard Park.) Before COVID, there were several News articles about how it has become nearly dilapidated.  It should be updated.

Fun with words. I like to exaggerate as much as the next fella, but the definition of dilapidated from the official dictionary of SabreSpace (MW): decayed, deteriorated, or fallen into partial ruin especially through neglect or misuse. That's a bit strong for the condition of the arena. Get some frat boys from local colleges, buy some kegs and let them do community service for one Saturday afternoon. Done!

[Eleven]

7 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Fun with words. I like to exaggerate as much as the next fella, but the definition of dilapidated from the official dictionary of SabreSpace (MW): decayed, deteriorated, or fallen into partial ruin especially through neglect or misuse. That's a bit strong for the condition of the arena. Get some frat boys from local colleges, buy some kegs and let them do community service for one Saturday afternoon. Done!

You must sit in the 200s.  No wonder you knew Chet and Muffy first!

Edited April 19, 2022 by Eleven

[Stoner]

37 minutes ago, Eleven said:

You must sit in the 200s.  No wonder you knew Chet and Muffy first!

I let my blood, sweat and tears rain down on them. I am a 300 man. No issues. I think the seats are city of Buffalo recycling bins but that's OK.

I noticed this year that the lighting is brighter. I hear no complaints about the ice. Srsly what more do we need? That said I don't usually visit concessions or waste troughs.

[Contempt]

35 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

I let my blood, sweat and tears rain down on them. I am a 300 man. No issues. I think the seats are city of Buffalo recycling bins but that's OK.

I noticed this year that the lighting is brighter. I hear no complaints about the ice. Srsly what more do we need? That said I don't usually visit concessions or waste troughs.

If all we are supposed to do is watch a hockey game, I can do that at home on a more comfortable seat with my own food, beer, and bathroom and save a bunch of money.  If I'm going to the game I generally like to partake of concessions and perhaps use the bathroom and have functioning hot water to wash my hands.  If the hot water is not working in the bathroom it makes me wonder how the concession folk wash their hands properly (in short, they probably aren't) I also prefer my seat not to be broken or torn. Call me picky.

Having gone to a bunch of venues recently, I find myself having the most fun in places where there is a designated standing/milling around area where you can watch the game that has access to concessions and a bar.  The most fun hockey games I've ever been to were ones back at the Aud where I had SRO at the top of the oranges. Very fun. Not for everyone, but I enjoyed it and it's something missing from KBC.

Edited April 19, 2022 by Contempt

[PromoTheRobot]

48 minutes ago, Contempt said:

If all we are supposed to do is watch a hockey game, I can do that at home on a more comfortable seat with my own food, beer, and bathroom and save a bunch of money.  If I'm going to the game I generally like to partake of concessions and perhaps use the bathroom and have functioning hot water to wash my hands.  If the hot water is not working in the bathroom it makes me wonder how the concession folk wash their hands properly (in short, they probably aren't) I also prefer my seat not to be broken or torn. Call me picky.

Having gone to a bunch of venues recently, I find myself having the most fun in places where there is a designated standing/milling around area where you can watch the game that has access to concessions and a bar.  The most fun hockey games I've ever been to were ones back at the Aud where I had SRO at the top of the oranges. Very fun. Not for everyone, but I enjoyed it and it's something missing from KBC.

How soft we've become. I never heard anyone complain about cupholders or cracks in the floor at the Aud.

[Contempt]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

How soft we've become. I never heard anyone complain about cupholders or cracks in the floor at the Aud.

When hockey was at the Aud I didn't have an 80" UHD TV set with surround sound in my basement. I was also 25-30 years younger and the team was a damn sight better.

[mjd1001]

57 minutes ago, Contempt said:

If all we are supposed to do is watch a hockey game, I can do that at home on a more comfortable seat with my own food, beer, and bathroom and save a bunch of money.  If I'm going to the game I generally like to partake of concessions and perhaps use the bathroom and have functioning hot water to wash my hands.  If the hot water is not working in the bathroom it makes me wonder how the concession folk wash their hands properly (in short, they probably aren't) I also prefer my seat not to be broken or torn. Call me picky.

Having gone to a bunch of venues recently, I find myself having the most fun in places where there is a designated standing/milling around area where you can watch the game that has access to concessions and a bar.  The most fun hockey games I've ever been to were ones back at the Aud where I had SRO at the top of the oranges. Very fun. Not for everyone, but I enjoyed it and it's something missing from KBC.

I agree 100%.  Honestly, with the exception of maybe a few seats at the arena, as a hockey fan I can see things BETTER at home.  If you want me to come out to the game these days, give me a reason to. Give me a reason to get a worse view from the 300 level or any level outside of the blue lines than I get at home. Again, I can see all I need to see of the game at home on a high def tv these days...that doesn't make me or anyone else less of a fan.  Gone are the days of watching it on a 25" non-highdef tv with one single speaker.  If you want many of us at the Arena, it isn't a matter of fans 'being soft' for wanting more, it is a matter of giving us a grade-A, top shelf night out to go with that game.  Most other Arenas built near the time of the Key Bank center (Boston, Toronto, Philly to name a few) have undergone major renovations and are much better than the KBC (yes, I have been to a few of them in the past 5 years). Some of the newer Arenas (Detroit), blow it clean out of the water.  Major upgrades are needed.

Edited April 19, 2022 by mjd1001

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

I agree 100%.  Honestly, with the exception of maybe a few seats at the arena, as a hockey fan I can see things BETTER at home.  If you want me to come out to the game these days, give me a reason to. Give me a reason to get a worse view from the 300 level or any level outside of the blue lines than I get at home. Again, I can see all I need to see of the game at home on a high def tv these days...that doesn't make me or anyone else less of a fan.  Gone are the days of watching it on a 25" non-highdef tv with one single speaker.  If you want many of us at the Arena, it isn't a matter of fans 'being soft' for wanting more, it is a matter of giving us a grade-A, top shelf night out to go with that game.  Most other Arenas built near the time of the Key Bank center (Boston, Toronto, Philly to name a few) have undergone major renovations and are much better than the KBC (yes, I have been to a few of them in the past 5 years). Some of the newer Arenas (Detroit), blow it clean out of the water.  Major upgrades are needed.

But we want cheap tickets and concessions and the owner to pay for all upgrades. And don't cheap out on players, coaches and facilities.

Edited April 19, 2022 by PromoTheRobot

[Contempt]

29 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

But we want cheap tickets and concessions and the owner to pay for all upgrades. And don't cheap out on players, coaches and facilities.

Sounds about right.

[Eleven]

4 hours ago, Contempt said:

If all we are supposed to do is watch a hockey game, I can do that at home on a more comfortable seat with my own food, beer, and bathroom and save a bunch of money.  If I'm going to the game I generally like to partake of concessions and perhaps use the bathroom and have functioning hot water to wash my hands.  If the hot water is not working in the bathroom it makes me wonder how the concession folk wash their hands properly (in short, they probably aren't) I also prefer my seat not to be broken or torn. Call me picky.

Having gone to a bunch of venues recently, I find myself having the most fun in places where there is a designated standing/milling around area where you can watch the game that has access to concessions and a bar.  The most fun hockey games I've ever been to were ones back at the Aud where I had SRO at the top of the oranges. Very fun. Not for everyone, but I enjoyed it and it's something missing from KBC.

For $30 in the 300s, or for $whatever anywhere, you deserve all of this.  

Also, ten-year-old me was scared of you adults drinking waxers in SRO at the top of the oranges.  I'm not kidding; you guys drinking and smoking did frighten me.  Keep that in mind?

Edited April 20, 2022 by Eleven

[Contempt]

36 minutes ago, Eleven said:

For $30 in the 300s, or for $whatever anywhere, you deserve all of this.  

Also, ten-year-old me was scared of you adults drinking waxers in SRO at the top of the oranges.  I'm not kidding; you guys drinking and smoking did frighten me.  Keep that in mind?

I was 14 up in the SRO at the time, and I'm suggesting an area not a total free-for-all.  Wells Fargo just made a nice thing at the top of the arena.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Contempt

[Eleven]

7 minutes ago, Contempt said:

I was 14 up in the SRO at the time, and I'm suggesting an area not a total free-for-all.  Wells Fargo just made a nice thing at the top of the arena.

I somehow don't trust Buffalo to turn it into a "nice thing," but 40 years is a long time, and maybe we have matured as a people. I guess give it a shot?  

[Contempt]

3 minutes ago, Eleven said:

I somehow don't trust Buffalo to turn it into a "nice thing," but 40 years is a long time, and maybe we have matured as a people. I guess give it a shot?  

I don't either. Left to Buffalo it will be an empty room with kegs of Cream Ale and open piss troughs.

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, Contempt said:

I don't either. Left to Buffalo it will be an empty room with kegs of Cream Ale and open piss troughs.

Hopefully the sinks won't be at the same height and look like round ones.  Could get nasty.  😉

 

[PromoTheRobot]

6 minutes ago, Contempt said:

I don't either. Left to Buffalo it will be an empty room with kegs of Cream Ale and open piss troughs.

You say it like it's something bad.

 

[Contempt]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

You say it like it's something bad.

 

and PA will still complain it's too extravagant.