Offseason Gameplan 2022 - Solving the goaltending system wide.

[Taro T]

And not saying Koivu & Rivet weren't screwing around prior to that game in Carolina, nor that the toilet didn't break possibly even cutting Koivu.

But to believe he got 30-40 stitches before that game & then played more than 23 minutes that night & got an assist on the game winning goal and then played over 9 minutes into the 2nd period of the next game until he got high sticked in the eye by Williams and then could not play any more in any of the next 3 games because of his butt boo-boo rather than his eye injury strains credulity at a minimum. 

THAT is what doesn't pass the smell test.

He could play a game and a half while being unable to bend over (which is possible - Lemieux did it many times with his back troubles) but then AFTER suffering an eye injury which required hospitalization he couldn't play again because of the butt cut & not the eye trauma.  Does that HONESTLY pass the smell test for you?  How?

[Taro T]

7 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

The story he told was that when they got to the rink Koivu was basically hiding in the trainers room. The trainer had took him to get stitched up but never told the team. Saku told Rivet that he couldn’t bend over. But he DID play that night but missed the rest of the series after that game.

But that's NOT what happened.  Game 2 was in Carolina.  Game 3 was in Moe-ray-all. He played in both.  Both were after he'd been hurt by Rivet.  He stopped playing ONLY after catching a stick to the eye.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Taro T

[Flashsabre]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

But that's NOT what happened.  Game 2 was in Carolina.  Game 3 was in Moe-ray-all. He played in both.  Both were after he'd been hurt by Rivet.  He stopped playing ONLY after catching a stick to the eye.

I just don’t care. He told a story.

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, Flashsabre said:

I just don’t care. He told a story.

Yes,he told a STORY.  A very entertaining one at that.

But to say Koivu couldn't play the rest of that series because of the events of that story and NOT because of the eye injury is not credible when compared to the actual events.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Great story and it deserves it’s own thread.  However this is the goaltending thread.  Let’s all move on and back to the subject of this thread.  Thank you!

[dudacek]

Why isn’t Jack Campbell ever talked about as our bridge goalie?

Great team guy, as good a goalie as most of the other options, in that sweet spot of where you might not have to overpay, right age, not a block, probably weakens the Leafs…

2 years at $5 million per? Maybe 3 if you have to?

[Marvin]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Why isn’t Jack Campbell ever talked about as our bridge goalie?

Great team guy, as good a goalie as most of the other options, in that sweet spot of where you might not have to overpay, right age, not a block, probably weakens the Leafs…

2 years at $5 million per? Maybe 3 if you have to?

Are the Leafs stupid enough to let him go?

[JohnC]

4 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

Are the Leafs stupid enough to let him go?

The issue for the Leafs is not so much do they want to keep him as it is can they afford to keep him. If I were advising the Sabres he would be a goalie that I would recommend targeting this offseason. If I'm going to overpay a player on a short to medium term deal he is the caliber of goalie I would do it for. 

[dudacek]

31 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

Are the Leafs stupid enough to let him go?

They have less than $8 million to sign or replace him, Lybushkin, Giordano, Sandin, Liljegren, Spezza, Blackwell, Kase, Engvall and Mikheyev.

[Porous Five Hole]

20 minutes ago, dudacek said:

They have less than $8 million to sign or replace him, Lybushkin, Giordano, Sandin, Liljegren, Spezza, Blackwell, Kase, Engvall and Mikheyev.

I’m happy to take Marner off their hands for draft picks so they can re-sign some of these guys 😀

[Brawndo]

One Possible UFA Target Gone

 

[mjd1001]

On 5/16/2022 at 2:11 PM, dudacek said:

They have less than $8 million to sign or replace him, Lybushkin, Giordano, Sandin, Liljegren, Spezza, Blackwell, Kase, Engvall and Mikheyev.

Reading some articles about the leafs and looking at the comments, as well as listening to a lot of 590 on the radio out of toronto when out on the road for work...it won't be a problem according to leafs fans, they have it all figured out:

According to many leafs fans:

-Spezza and Giordano will sign for league veteran minimum, they are at the end of their careers and only want to play in Toronto.

-Trade Nylander to the highest bidder, Get a young, 1st paring D-man for him that cost well under $3 per year. You know, because all the other teams know how good Nylander is.  His spot can be pretty much filled by Knies or Robertson.  Another idea posted that has a lot of people agreeing with it is simply to Trade Nylander to Jersey for the 2nd overall pick this year plus something else from Jersey, and then use the money savings to get one of the top D-men out there.

-Campbell will give in and sign for $3million per year with the leafs. He can't turn down the opportunity to stay with this team and if/when the leafs win the cup, he will become a hockey legend for doing it in Toronto.

-Offer to retain a little bit of money on Tavares contract and move him.  Get a haul back for him, including a stud d-man and still save money on the contract.  With that savings you can resign most of your free agents (because they are all going to take a home-town discount to stay in Toronto) and maybe even add to the roster.

So yes, there are some skeptics in Toronto, but most of what I have read and heard from the Leafs fans is how easy a few moves will be where they can both dump salary AND get better at the same time, and then take that extra cap room they have to sign young stud players to make them even better along with retaining Campbell. Easy.

[French Collection]

2 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Reading some articles about the leafs and looking at the comments, as well as listening to a lot of 590 on the radio out of toronto when out on the road for work...it won't be a problem according to leafs fans, they have it all figured out:

According to many leafs fans:

-Spezza and Giordano will sign for league veteran minimum, they are at the end of their careers and only want to play in Toronto.

-Trade Nylander to the highest bidder, Get a young, 1st paring D-man for him that cost well under $3 per year. You know, because all the other teams know how good Nylander is.  His spot can be pretty much filled by Knies or Robertson.  Another idea posted that has a lot of people agreeing with it is simply to Trade Nylander to Jersey for the 2nd overall pick this year plus something else from Jersey, and then use the money savings to get one of the top D-men out there.

-Campbell will give in and sign for $3million per year with the leafs. He can't turn down the opportunity to stay with this team and if/when the leafs win the cup, he will become a hockey legend for doing it in Toronto.

-Offer to retain a little bit of money on Tavares contract and move him.  Get a haul back for him, including a stud d-man and still save money on the contract.  With that savings you can resign most of your free agents (because they are all going to take a home-town discount to stay in Toronto) and maybe even add to the roster.

So yes, there are some skeptics in Toronto, but most of what I have read and heard from the Leafs fans is how easy a few moves will be where they can both dump salary AND get better at the same time, and then take that extra cap room they have to sign young stud players to make them even better along with retaining Campbell. Easy.

The media over here refers to Dubas as a cap genius. We will see how he can navigate these issues this summer.

I don’t consider him a genius when you give a team (Carolina) a first round pick just to take Marleau and his contract off of your hands. They loved Marleau for his leadership and how much he helped their young guns grow.

 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, French Collection said:

The media over here refers to Dubas as a cap genius. We will see how he can navigate these issues this summer.

I don’t consider him a genius when you give a team (Carolina) a first round pick just to take Marleau and his contract off of your hands. They loved Marleau for his leadership and how much he helped their young guns grow.

 

For a team in their cap situation giving up a lower first round pick to take a high cost contract off of their hands makes a lot of sense. That pick is unlikely to be on the roster in the next three to four years. And that lower pick is also not guaranteed to move ahead of the young players already in their system when the player is more developed. Selling off contracts is what happens when you have a roster full of talented players. You can't keep them all. I would rather be in a roster situation that Toronto is in where there are a number of high end players on the roster squeezing the cap than be in a situation where you don't have enough good players with commensurate contracts. 

Considering where the Sabres are with their bottom-feeding cap situation, I'm hoping that the Sabres can add a good player to their roster by selectively adding a player that another team can't fit onto their roster because of the cap squeeze. Vegas is in that tight money situation. That's a fertile roster to poach a good player from. 

[sweetlou]

Can Tuch convince MAF to come to Sabres for two years.  KA can give him $7.5 AAV.  Good mentor for young goalies and another great locker room guy.

[French Collection]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

For a team in their cap situation giving up a lower first round pick to take a high cost contract off of their hands makes a lot of sense. That pick is unlikely to be on the roster in the next three to four years. And that lower pick is also not guaranteed to move ahead of the young players already in their system when the player is more developed. Selling off contracts is what happens when you have a roster full of talented players. You can't keep them all. I would rather be in a roster situation that Toronto is in where there are a number of high end players on the roster squeezing the cap than be in a situation where you don't have enough good players with commensurate contracts. 

Considering where the Sabres are with their bottom-feeding cap situation, I'm hoping that the Sabres can add a good player to their roster by selectively adding a player that another team can't fit onto their roster because of the cap squeeze. Vegas is in that tight money situation. That's a fertile roster to poach a good player from. 

By giving away 1st round picks just to take a contract you are not replenishing your pipeline of players on ELCs to replace the talent that prices itself off of your team.

It also means you have mismanaged your cap by giving big money and too long of a deal to players that you can’t even give away.

[GASabresIUFAN]

On 5/16/2022 at 1:31 PM, dudacek said:

Why isn’t Jack Campbell ever talked about as our bridge goalie?

Great team guy, as good a goalie as most of the other options, in that sweet spot of where you might not have to overpay, right age, not a block, probably weakens the Leafs…

2 years at $5 million per? Maybe 3 if you have to?

He hasn’t been in the conversation much because most assume the Leafs will re-sign him. He also wasn’t great in the second half or in the playoffs.  

Edited May 20, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[Huckleberry]

8 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

He hasn’t been in the conversation much be most assume the Leafs will re-sign him. He also wasn’t great in the second half or in the playoffs.  

Yeah I'm a bit worried about signing him, 30 yr old goalie having his first full season in the league, I don't really get the appeal here.

For me he is a career back up goalie, not a 1A, but still better than anything we have right now I guess.  

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

He hasn’t been in the conversation much because most assume the Leafs will re-sign him. He also wasn’t great in the second half or in the playoffs.  

What I'm reading and hearing says do not assume the Leafs will re-sign him; what he will want and what they can afford don't line up well and people don't expect him to take a big discount to stay.

59 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Yeah I'm a bit worried about signing him, 30 yr old goalie having his first full season in the league, I don't really get the appeal here.

For me he is a career back up goalie, not a 1A, but still better than anything we have right now I guess.  

.915, .921, . 914 save percentages the past 3 seasons with Toronto, .900 and .928 before that with L.A.

There's this weird dichotomy in this thread where people don't want to give up anything of value, or invest in term, then quickly dismiss pretty much anyone who may not require either.

Barring Fleury doing the unexpected, personally, I don't see better goalie than Campbell out there who is free to acquire and might sign for 3 years or less.

And, for the record since the start of 2018/19 season, Campbell has a .916 SV% and a 2.52 GAA in 128 games compared to Fleury's .912 and 2.59 over 209 games.

Edited May 20, 2022 by dudacek

[Huckleberry]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

What I'm reading and hearing says do not assume the Leafs will re-sign him; what he will want and what they can afford don't line up well and people don't expect him to take a big discount to stay.

.915, .921, . 914 save percentages the past 3 seasons with Toronto, .900 and .928 before that with L.A.

There's this weird dichotomy in this thread where people don't want to give up anything of value, or invest in term, then quickly dismiss pretty much anyone who may not require either.

Barring Fleury doing the unexpected, personally, I don't see better goalie than Campbell out there who is free to acquire and might sign for 3 years or less.

And, for the record since the start of 2018/19 season, Campbell has a .916 SV% and a 2.52 GAA in 128 games compared to Fleury's .912 and 2.59 over 209 games.

Still small sample size

31 games 26 games 22 games  <-- back up numbers 

Only this season he played his most 49 games.   Sure we can give him a shot seeing we got nothing better, but wouldn't surprise me if he fails big time if pushed into a 1A spot.   That being said I do consider our defense better than the leafs' one.

[thewookie1]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

What I'm reading and hearing says do not assume the Leafs will re-sign him; what he will want and what they can afford don't line up well and people don't expect him to take a big discount to stay.

.915, .921, . 914 save percentages the past 3 seasons with Toronto, .900 and .928 before that with L.A.

There's this weird dichotomy in this thread where people don't want to give up anything of value, or invest in term, then quickly dismiss pretty much anyone who may not require either.

Barring Fleury doing the unexpected, personally, I don't see better goalie than Campbell out there who is free to acquire and might sign for 3 years or less.

And, for the record since the start of 2018/19 season, Campbell has a .916 SV% and a 2.52 GAA in 128 games compared to Fleury's .912 and 2.59 over 209 games.

I guess in the end I can’t trust anyone from Toronto. They are a franchise notorious for choking and coming up short this I steer clear of their players typically. Now Anderson certainly bounced back in Carolina but he had been good prior and during his time in Toronto already.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

What I'm reading and hearing says do not assume the Leafs will re-sign him; what he will want and what they can afford don't line up well and people don't expect him to take a big discount to stay.

.915, .921, . 914 save percentages the past 3 seasons with Toronto, .900 and .928 before that with L.A.

There's this weird dichotomy in this thread where people don't want to give up anything of value, or invest in term, then quickly dismiss pretty much anyone who may not require either.

Barring Fleury doing the unexpected, personally, I don't see better goalie than Campbell out there who is free to acquire and might sign for 3 years or less.

And, for the record since the start of 2018/19 season, Campbell has a .916 SV% and a 2.52 GAA in 128 games compared to Fleury's .912 and 2.59 over 209 games.

So basically Ullmark level goaltending.  Maybe KA should have found away to keep Ullmark.  

Campbell, Fleury, DeSmith etc.. It's all the same basic ok goaltending.  Husso seems like the only possible upgrade on Ullmark.  Granted all would be better then Anderson and UPL.  

[thewookie1]

5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

So basically Ullmark level goaltending.  Maybe KA should have found away to keep Ullmark.  

Campbell, Fleury, DeSmith etc.. It's all the same basic ok goaltending.  Husso seems like the only possible upgrade on Ullmark.  Granted all would be better then Anderson and UPL.  

I’d still say Fleury > Ullmark

[Huckleberry]

16 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

So basically Ullmark level goaltending.  Maybe KA should have found away to keep Ullmark.  

Campbell, Fleury, DeSmith etc.. It's all the same basic ok goaltending.  Husso seems like the only possible upgrade on Ullmark.  Granted all would be better then Anderson and UPL.  

Kinda failed end of year / playoffs too.   And just like Campbell 1 year as 1A kinda, a real 1A plays 60 games though.

[sabresparaavida]

13 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Kinda failed end of year / playoffs too.   And just like Campbell 1 year as 1A kinda, a real 1A plays 60 games though.

A 1A does not play 60 games. A 1A implies there is a 1B in which case the split would be something like 50-32 or something perhaps closer. 
 

There were 5 goalies this season that played 60 or more games. 

Campbell was 19th in games played this year.