Can we win a Cup without a Superstar forward?

[calti]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

How are you defining soft?

He’s not scared of getting hit, or shy about dishing it out. He doesn’t back down when it comes to the extra-curriculars like scrums and stick work. He’s winning more board battles than he’s losing and is getting under peoples skins. These things arent measurable, but they are kinda hard to deny by anyone actually watching him play lately.

As far as measurable go, he leads the team in hits and is 2nd in both blocked shots and PIMs.

The only objective criteria by which he can be considered soft is fighting. because he doesn’t fight. Of course only 2 Sabres and maybe 50 NHLers do, so that’s not really much of a relevant stat these days.

 

very good post...I guess what I mean by 'soft' though is more mental. Superstars--which Dahlin isnt-dominate the competition.That takes mental toughness that would border on the obsessive (Bobby Clark) or the highly gifted(Perrault) or both  (Gretz). With Dahlin I see a guy who is def improving..And has 9 goals? 10 goals?-The season is almost over. Allstar ,not superstar. Not yet,and I dont think its a forgone conclusion.

So I should have been more specific re Soft. 

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, calti said:

very good post...I guess what I mean by 'soft' though is more mental. Superstars--which Dahlin isnt-dominate the competition.That takes mental toughness that would border on the obsessive (Bobby Clark) or the highly gifted(Perrault) or both  (Gretz). With Dahlin I see a guy who is def improving..And has 9 goals? 10 goals?-The season is almost over. Allstar ,not superstar. Not yet,and I dont think its a forgone conclusion.

So I should have been more specific re Soft. 

I think Dahlin is a playmaking defender so I don't expect a ton of goals. 

[SwampD]

5 hours ago, calti said:

Dahlin is still soft. Not a superstar. I will believe it when I see it. is he an allstar? sure.of course.

Altho I cant think of the last superstar the sabres have had.    Briere?? borderline....Then we would have to go back to Hasek.

No.

…If he ever was.

Edited April 5, 2022 by SwampD

[Crusader1969]

11 hours ago, calti said:

Dahlin is still soft. Not a superstar. I will believe it when I see it. is he an allstar? sure.of course.

Altho I cant think of the last superstar the sabres have had.    Briere?? borderline....Then we would have to go back to Hasek.

Seriously???  How can you watch the last 2 months and come away with the thought he is soft????  

[dudacek]

It occurred to me while watching the Canes tonight that they are a contender with neither a superstar forward, nor a superstar defenceman, nor a superstar goalie.

It also occurred to me that as much as I respect them, I would be surprised if they ever won a cup.

The Sabres as constituted now can easily grow into the Canes. 

If they want to win a cup though, one or two of our kids is going to have to find that higher level.

[Doohicksie]

10 minutes ago, dudacek said:

one or two of our kids is going to have to find that higher level.

You don't think Tage is "it"?

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

It occurred to me while watching the Canes tonight that they are a contender with neither a superstar forward, nor a superstar defenceman, nor a superstar goalie.

It also occurred to me that as much as I respect them, I would be surprised if they ever won a cup.

The Sabres as constituted now can easily grow into the Canes. 

If they want to win a cup though, one or two of our kids is going to have to find that higher level.

You don’t think Ahl is an elite player? That line with Teravainen and Svechnikov is one of the top lines in hockey.  DeAngelo is an elite scoring D (45 pts in 52g)and Slavin is one of the best all around D in hockey.  Those are 5 elite players.  
 

However I agree we need a couple of players to really become dominate to really be a Cup contender. Dahlin is one.  To me it looks like Mitts and TNT are getting better every night.  I am so looking forward to a line of Quinn, Mitts and VO next season.  I agree because when I look at the best teams I see McKinnon and Rantanen in Colorado, Huberdeau and Barkov in Florida and wonder who we have that could reach that level.  FYI Samson has 68 pts in 67 games YTD.

Edited April 6, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[dudacek]

I am a huge Aho fan, think Svechnikov is a real talent and have a ton of respect for Slavin.

I don’t think any of those players are superstars.

[Doohicksie]

One thing to consider is that earlier in the season the Granato was still teaching the Krueger stink out of the team and there were too many injury holes filled with not nearly enough skill.  They were objectively bad before the All Star break.  They've been playing consistently good hockey since.  But when you look at player point totals, especially for the injured players who've come back, the totals do not really reflect how good the players are.

In the recent streak, we have 4 players with .7 PPG or higher, and several others that are making solid contributions in scoring.  The scoring is spread more than it has been in years.  With enough secondary scoring it probably isn't necessary to have that one singular star to lead the scoring.  I've said it before:  I'd rather see the talent (and scoring) spread up and down the lineup rather than all concentrated in one or two players.

[French Collection]

Teams with superstars are “sexier” for the media, but I like teams that roll 3 good lines and a 4th that can contribute.

When you have scoring depth it is a mystery as to who will be the hero during the game. The Oilers need McDavid or Draisaitl to  be the heroes or they lose.

[Curt]

3 minutes ago, French Collection said:

Teams with superstars are “sexier” for the media, but I like teams that roll 3 good lines and a 4th that can contribute.

When you have scoring depth it is a mystery as to who will be the hero during the game. The Oilers need McDavid or Draisaitl to  be the heroes or they lose.

A team that wins the cup generally has both.

[French Collection]

1 minute ago, Curt said:

A team that wins the cup generally has both.

Kopitar was LA’s best forward on their cup teams. He is really good but not an Art Ross type of player. He has only been over a point a game once in his career. His two way game is elite but he is not the prototypical superstar.

[Curt]

38 minutes ago, French Collection said:

Kopitar was LA’s best forward on their cup teams. He is really good but not an Art Ross type of player. He has only been over a point a game once in his career. His two way game is elite but he is not the prototypical superstar.

Absolutely true.

I would not say that Kopitar is/was a “superstar” the way we are defining it here.  Doughty and Quick probably also falls just short of that label.

If you look through the list of cup winners, it’s the exception, but it can occasionally be done.

[nfreeman]

19 hours ago, French Collection said:

Kopitar was LA’s best forward on their cup teams. He is really good but not an Art Ross type of player. He has only been over a point a game once in his career. His two way game is elite but he is not the prototypical superstar.

 

19 hours ago, Curt said:

Absolutely true.

I would not say that Kopitar is/was a “superstar” the way we are defining it here.  Doughty and Quick probably also falls just short of that label.

If you look through the list of cup winners, it’s the exception, but it can occasionally be done.

Doughty was a superstar IMHO and Quick was pretty close.  

[Curt]

3 hours ago, nfreeman said:

 

Doughty was a superstar IMHO and Quick was pretty close.  

Yeah, it’s a close thing that I’m not really prepared to debate.  Doughty’s offensive production was not really what you would expect from a superstar, but the team also played a system that stifled offense.  I guess YMMV.

[French Collection]

Dahlin and Power should provide offence from the back end but the thread is about superstar forwards.

I say no, a balanced attack can win a cup.

[Pimlach]

Chicken or egg ?   Win a cup and your players get looked at differently.  Win 2 and some of your players will be considered superstars - because a few will have to play that way.  Can be the goalie or defenseman.  St Louis did not have a superstar forward - ROR and Tarasenko are stars but not superstars.  
 

Right now this team needs to focus on making the playoffs next year, 8th place in the conference will be a big jump.  It is way to early to worry about a Cup.  

Tage, Mitts, Krebs, Cozens, Quinn is a nice collection of young talent  Tuch, Skinner, Kyle and Zemgus are solid contributing vets.   VO and Asplund are role players   
 

Let’s get the goalie position much stronger, fix up the right side of the defense, then worry about adding  more forward help  Our #1 this year could be a star forward btw.   

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Pimlach