Can we win a Cup without a Superstar forward?

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Woo woo, slow down. Samuelsson is good defensively but there's a drop off.

1. Leave me alone with my fantasies.  They make me happy.
2. He's no #1OA but he's a very good defenseman.

[French Collection]

5 minutes ago, Stads said:

Did we think Briere and Drury were superstars?

I don’t, my definition of superstar is someone who gets into or is close to getting into the HOF.

 

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I agree that we are in a much better space because of our depth.  However that doesn't change my feeling that we need at least one dynamic forward to elevate us to a Cup contender.  

[DarthEbriate]

6 minutes ago, Stads said:

Did we think Briere and Drury were superstars?

Briere, for a few years there: borderline star.

Drury: not at all.

[sabresouth]

Absolutely we can win It all without one super star. I think we are two forwards and a good goalie tandem from competing for the playoffs. This should be relatively easy to get done in the off season. For the love of Pete I hope KA can pull it off. I think another year for growth and these guys can make a run for the cup.

[CallawaySabres]

The most important thing about this team is that they are growing together, get better every week, and having fun doing it. I really think this could be a special group and adding Quinn and Power next year will add to the core's excitement. Add a vet tender and UPL and most likely a solid free agent forward to join them.

Dahlin is turning into an absolute Aneemol! He jumps in to defend any teammate at any time and you can just see the confidence in this group. Wait till that kid puts on the black, demonic Goathead, I may just start crying (and nobody loves the royal blue more than this guy). Bring on 22/23 season because sheet is gonna be flyin. 

[Marvin]

2 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

You can win with average  goaltending 

"Average goaltending in the Playoffs" is far, far better than "average goaltending in the regular season."  I have statistics for both the regular season and playoffs from 1945-2021.  Goaltenders at the top in the playoffs were almost always near the top in the regular season.  You get the odd exception, but if you want your team to win a Cup, the overwhelming evidence is that either: you get consistently upper quartile goaltending; you have such an overwhelming advantage with skaters that the goaltending is not as decisive; you have extraordinary injury luck in the opposition through much of the playoffs; or you have some guy come out of nowhere who somehow sustains his play through the playoffs.  Consistently above average or better goaltending is far and away more reliable than average goaltending plus extenuating circumstances.

Edit: for the record, from 1945-2021, in the playoffs: shots on goal / 60 minutes decrease about 10%; save percentages go up about 15-25% -- both tend to happen regardless of what they were in the regular season.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Marvin, Sabres Fan

[SDS]

2 hours ago, Stads said:

Did we think Briere and Drury were superstars?

I always referred to the two as a poor man’s superstar.

[SDS]

2 hours ago, French Collection said:

I don’t, my definition of superstar is someone who gets into or is close to getting into the HOF.

 

This is probably a good point. I did not consider either one of them a superstar. I considered them poor man’s stars/top players. Nothing close to superstar. 

[JKB1646]

Superstars are rare but passion trumps talent and CULTURE is KING! This iteration of the Sabres proves this.

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, JKB1646 said:

Superstars are rare but passion trumps talent and CULTURE is KING! This iteration of the Sabres proves this.

A team that won't make the playoffs proves this? I like the kool-aid too but dammmmmmm

[Randall Flagg]

10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

A team that won't make the playoffs proves this? I like the kool-aid too but dammmmmmm

Schopp likes to ground people with this every day. "They are still terrible." 

It's not wrong overall

[Curt]

6 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Schopp likes to ground people with this every day. "They are still terrible." 

It's not wrong overall

If you look at the season standings, yes, they are terrible, but this ignores the source of everyone’s newfound optimism.  For the past month, they haven’t been terrible.

[Marvin]

23 minutes ago, JKB1646 said:

Superstars are rare but passion trumps talent and CULTURE is KING! This iteration of the Sabres proves this.

All other things being equal, a little extra will beats a little extra skill.

We still need more skill, though.

The fundamental question we are asking in this and similar threads is, "can you win a Stanley Cup with a superstar C/D/G?"  IMHO, the answer to all 3 is a resounding "yes."  You can always win with strong ensemble play, but you need very good depth and goaltending.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Marvin, Sabres Fan

[Pimlach]

17 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I think most people here believe this team is on the cusp of being a playoff contender, especially with better goaltending.  

I also think most people here like the depth we are building at forward and look forward to truly running 4 quality limes night in and night out. During these regular season, a team that can roll 4 lines has a distinct advantage. 

However, can this team become a true Cup contender without at least one Superstar forward?

When I look at this forward group I see Skinner, Tuch, Thompson, Mitts, Krebs and Quinn as potential 60-70 pts players.  Cozens 50-60 and possibly better.  That’s great depth, but is it good enough?  I watch our OT play and PP and worry that we lack a dynamic forward to help those specialty areas thrive.  
 

Sure.  That is a good core of forwards but we need to find a center that can win face offs and shut down opponents top line - maybe that is Cozens?  
 

Dahlin is a star in the making.  Tage could be one as well.  We need Power, Quinn and one of our goalie prospects to be Star players.  
 

The Blues won a Cup with ROR and Tarasenko as star forwards and lots of other good forwards, a couple studs on defense and the hottest goalie in the league that season. 
 

We can do it.  

Edited March 30, 2022 by Pimlach

[Doohicksie]

28 minutes ago, Curt said:

If you look at the season standings, yes, they are terrible, but this ignores the source of everyone’s newfound optimism.  For the past month, they haven’t been terrible.

Let's see if they can string another month like that after this one.

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

Let's see if they can string another month like that after this one.

Let’s see if they can collect 12 points in their final 15 to finish the season with 70 - a total most of us thought was the upper end of what this roster could accomplish.

[Doohicksie]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Let’s see if they can collect 12 points in their final 15 to finish the season with 70 - a total most of us thought was the upper end of what this roster could accomplish.

They were so much more awful then, they're better than that now.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Briere topped out at 95 points.  That’s an elite number and drove that team to the President’s Cup.  That team also had very balanced scoring. Overall he had 230 points in 225 games as a Sabre.  Vanek was also an elite goal scorer with two 40 goal seasons, 254 goals in 598 Sabres games snd a 84 pt campaign in 06/07.

I don’t see any current Sabres putting up those kind of numbers and even with those players and a balanced roster, good goaltending and good coaching that team still fell short.  
 

Where thus bunch will have an advantage over the Briere teams is Power and Dahlin.  Soupy and Teppo were excellent players, but neither is at the level of the two top picks.  Maybe that is the dynamic element.  

[pi2000]

You need either a couple superstar forwards or a superstar goalie.   

[Gatorman0519]

If we go back the past twelve years or so every team had at least one, most had two superstars.  Detroit had Zetterberg, Pitt had Crosby/Malkin, The Blackhawks probably had 3, the Kings had Kopitar, The blues had Tereshenko (ROR was elite that playoffs), The Caps had Ovi/Backstrum, The Lightning as we all know probably have 3.  We certainly can become a top 3 in our division, but it seems you need that elite firepower somewhere in your lineup. 

[North Buffalo]

Im optimistic but Sabres need a RHD, one of these goalie to take the next step and yeh more talent on offense... getting there but not yet.

[LGR4GM]

Jack Quinn is a wild card here

[Curt]

4 hours ago, Gatorman0519 said:

If we go back the past twelve years or so every team had at least one, most had two superstars.  Detroit had Zetterberg, Pitt had Crosby/Malkin, The Blackhawks probably had 3, the Kings had Kopitar, The blues had Tereshenko (ROR was elite that playoffs), The Caps had Ovi/Backstrum, The Lightning as we all know probably have 3.  We certainly can become a top 3 in our division, but it seems you need that elite firepower somewhere in your lineup. 

I think that for the purposes of this exercise, neither Backstrom or Tarasenko are superstars.

[North Buffalo]

9 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

A team that won't make the playoffs proves this? I like the kool-aid too but dammmmmmm

he used the word Trump had to be koolaide