Can we win a Cup without a Superstar forward?

[JKB1646]

On 3/29/2022 at 9:05 PM, LGR4GM said:

A team that won't make the playoffs proves this? I like the kool-aid too but dammmmmmm

Ok Jim Jones stay positive. That’s what wrong with Buffalonians when you don’t get to leave the camp. You get so negative with all the drama and constant horse *****. Get out of Jonestown and you will enjoy being a fan so much more and you won’t live it day in and day out. 
yes the culture of the team is change…the fans not so much

[triumph_communes]

Cups are won by hot goalies 

[LGR4GM]

8 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

Cups are won by hot goalies 

Hot goalies you say?

[mjd1001]

On 3/30/2022 at 7:00 AM, tom webster said:

 

B) Drury and Briere played like superstars for those two years.

That may be the point of not having a superstar forward. You don't need one, you just need one or two of your 'star' forwards to play like 'superstars' for a year.  Just about every player has a career year or two.  Any one of the Sabres top guys having a career year might be good enough to label it 'playing like a superstar' for a year or two.

[PerreaultForever]

The idea that you build a team around superstars is utter folly and the Sabres are the perfect example of how that fails. 

great goaltending is without a doubt always essential, but superstars in a cap era? Hopefully we never go that route again. 

[Curt]

5 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

The idea that you build a team around superstars is utter folly and the Sabres are the perfect example of how that fails. 

great goaltending is without a doubt always essential, but superstars in a cap era? Hopefully we never go that route again. 

Welcome back.

I understand what you mean about the pitfalls of  focusing the construction of a team on one player.  Let’s please continue focusing on the team above the individual.  I don’t think that’s the spirit of the questions being asked here though.

You must admit though that most cup contenders/winners have a “superstar” forward as part of the team.  The Sabres don’t seem to have that player right now, although it’s possible that one emerges.  If they did have a superstar forward, I think it’s a little easier to project them as a contender in the future.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Curt

[Radar]

On 3/29/2022 at 2:24 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

I think most people here believe this team is on the cusp of being a playoff contender, especially with better goaltending.  

I also think most people here like the depth we are building at forward and look forward to truly running 4 quality limes night in and night out. During these regular season, a team that can roll 4 lines has a distinct advantage. 

However, can this team become a true Cup contender without at least one Superstar forward?

When I look at this forward group I see Skinner, Tuch, Thompson, Mitts, Krebs and Quinn as potential 60-70 pts players.  Cozens 50-60 and possibly better.  That’s great depth, but is it good enough?  I watch our OT play and PP and worry that we lack a dynamic forward to help those specialty areas thrive.  
 

To answer your question. Yes.

[dudacek]

I think there’s a bit of chicken-or-egg to this.

Players like Kopitar, O’Reilly and Bergeron attained superstar status by winning the cup; it’s why people regard them as highly as they do.

The best example of this would be Johnathan Toews.

[Weave]

16 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think there’s a bit of chicken-or-egg to this.

Players like Kopitar, O’Reilly and Bergeron attained superstar status by winning the cup; it’s why people regard them as highly as they do.

The best example of this would be Johnathan Toews.

I’ll also add, the superstar doesn’t need to be a forward.  Someone needs to step up and take over a game or a series.  Ideally, that responsibility gets shared a bit among the team.  I think a Dahlin, Power, or Mule could be that guy in a Cup run as long as the forwards can perform in the clutch when the “superstar” has his moments.

[Curt]

23 minutes ago, Weave said:

I’ll also add, the superstar doesn’t need to be a forward.  Someone needs to step up and take over a game or a series.  Ideally, that responsibility gets shared a bit among the team.  I think a Dahlin, Power, or Mule could be that guy in a Cup run as long as the forwards can perform in the clutch when the “superstar” has his moments.

Definitely true.

I think the premise of thread is that when you project out the Sabres young players, you envision a team with 1 or 2 superstar defensemen but maybe no forward who projects to be a superstar.

Can that team win a cup?

[Zamboni]

I would want my goalie to “take over a game”  more then any forward or defenseman. Having Swiss cheese in net sucks.

[Weave]

46 minutes ago, Curt said:

Definitely true.

I think the premise of thread is that when you project out the Sabres young players, you envision a team with 1 or 2 superstar defensemen but maybe no forward who projects to be a superstar.

Can that team win a cup?

I don’t see why not.  There is no one formula to win.

[Curt]

34 minutes ago, Weave said:

I don’t see why not.  There is no one formula to win.

I agree.  I think that a stacked defense, depth scoring though the forward group, and good goaltending can get it done even in the absence of an elite scoring forward.  It was enough for St. Louis to win it all.

[NAF]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

Definitely true.

I think the premise of thread is that when you project out the Sabres young players, you envision a team with 1 or 2 superstar defensemen but maybe no forward who projects to be a superstar.

Can that team win a cup?

I think so. I'll add that depth and goaltending are far more important in the playoffs than star power. Look no further than the last 6 years of Sabres hockey -- a star studded top line surrounded by AHL players and a sideshow cast in net resulted in bottom 8 finishes every year.

It is hard to ignore the evidence that the Penguins, Lightning, and Blackhawks (star power) have won far more than the Blues and Kings (less star power) in recent years, but I think this more comes down to the drive that star players have to win rather than talent. I don't believe that Sidney Crosby's talent has brought him success, rather it is his work ethic and determination that have brought him three cups. When you have that star determination on your team it raises everyone's level of play. The question is really can a non star power lineup bring that same level of determination.

[dudacek]

6 minutes ago, NAF said:

I think so. I'll add that depth and goaltending are far more important in the playoffs than star power. Look no further than the last 6 years of Sabres hockey -- a star studded top line surrounded by AHL players and a sideshow cast in net resulted in bottom 8 finishes every year.

It is hard to ignore the evidence that the Penguins, Lightning, and Blackhawks (star power) have won far more than the Blues and Kings (less star power) in recent years, but I think this more comes down to the drive that star players have to win rather than talent. I don't believe that Sidney Crosby's talent has brought him success, rather it is his work ethic and determination that have brought him three cups. When you have that star determination on your team it raises everyone's level of play. The question is really can a non star power lineup bring that same level of determination.

I’m not sure you can ignore the fact that the Lightning have been just as much about offensive depth and elite goaltending as they have about star power. 

And I’m perfectly comfortable with the possibility of Cozens and Dahlin matching Toews and Keith. Kane is the element we don’t have.

Main point of your post is spot on.

[PerreaultForever]

7 hours ago, Curt said:

Welcome back.

I understand what you mean about the pitfalls of  focusing the construction of a team on one player.  Let’s please continue focusing on the team above the individual.  I don’t think that’s the spirit of the questions being asked here though.

You must admit though that most cup contenders/winners have a “superstar” forward as part of the team.  The Sabres don’t seem to have that player right now, although it’s possible that one emerges.  If they did have a superstar forward, I think it’s a little easier to project them as a contender in the future.

Hey, if one of the draft picks or prospects develops into a star player great. If Cozens turns into a ROR I guess he becomes a "superstar". If Thompson gets even better and scores 40 or 50 goals a year I guess he becomes a "superstar". and so on. But in any case I don't believe there should be any focus on individuals. No one player should be deemed all that important, and players have to want to be here and want to be part of it. That's the new culture you need. If someone from the group emerges as a consistent great talent they get paid accordingly but no Skinner type signings, no Johnny Hockey additions or trading prospects and picks for some name player. Draft well, keep growing, keep building, increase the bonds, band of brothers and all that. Not individuals. It's started, keep it going. 

While it's true that in the end if we're to be a cup contender there will have to be star players on the team, they need to be developed within, not brought in. And no divas. Attitude has to be part of the draft process. In the end a team with a whole bunch of 20 goal scorers will take us further than a team with 1 or 2 40 to 50 goal scorers. If you don't believe me, come back to this after the Edmonton and Toronto playoff fails this year.

[Marvin]

The unsung formula of Cup winners is also guys from deeper in the line-up rising to the occasion.  Brian Campbell goes from #6D to #2D in one hit.  Tim Connolly rises from #3C and helps take over games in the 2006 playoffs.  IMHO, Tuch, Girgensons, Okposo, and Samuelsson are exactly the kinds of players who fit this idea.

[Crusader1969]

they Have a Superstar    JJ Peterka

 

[Marvin]

53 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

The unsung formula of Cup winners is also guys from deeper in the line-up rising to the occasion.  Brian Campbell goes from #6D to #2D in one hit.  Tim Connolly rises from #3C and helps take over games in the 2006 playoffs.  IMHO, Tuch, Girgensons, Okposo, and Samuelsson are exactly the kinds of players who fit this idea.

Add Hinostroza.

[calti]

I think we have properly filled out lines 3 and 4. And 1 on line 2. Now lets get to work on line 1 and the other 2 on line 2.

You have to love the way they have been playing for the past 3 weeks. But that doesnt mean we should lose all rationality.

[matter2003]

How do you know Jack Quinn won't be one? Looking pretty superstarish in Rochester right now

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, matter2003 said:

How do you know Jack Quinn won't be one? Looking pretty superstarish in Rochester right now

Shhh, I want ppl to be shocked next season. 

[JohnC]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Shhh, I want ppl to be shocked next season. 

The shock is gone. There is now a high expectation. 

[LGR4GM]

16 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The shock is gone. There is now a high expectation. 

What do you expect from Quinn next season?

[JohnC]

9 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

What do you expect from Quinn next season?

I expect him to be a second line forward. I would be disappointed if he doesn't score at least 20 goals next year. I also expect him to be on one of the PP units.