Repeatedly smashing stick while on the on ice

[Indabuff]

[SDS]

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

As someone who's played, I have no idea why that should be considered a penalty.    It's an emotionally charged sport, let players show emotion and vent their frustration.... especially in this day and age where everyone is hyper-sensitive about mental well-being.     Let players play.  

Their is slamming your stick in a show of emotion and then there is making yourself a spectacle. Two Chicago guys broke their stick on that play. The guy that nobody cares about broke a stick along the boards and skated off. The guy that everyone sat and watched take three chops at a goal post was a spectacle. Personally, I think becoming a spectacle is unwarranted.

[JoeSchmoe]

1 hour ago, French Collection said:

I hear you, my youngest is U18AAA. One of the teams inviting him to junior tryouts says they give out 4 sticks per season. That could be the deal breaker.

How many sticks would a U18 kid go through in a season? 

Interestingly, I bought my son a $200 stick that was on sale for just over $100 that was supposed to be a back / outdoor rink stick. He was shooting so well at the ODR that he tried it out in practice. Sure enough, he shoots better with that than his Super Tacks.

[RangerDave]

1 hour ago, SDS said:

Their is slamming your stick in a show of emotion and then there is making yourself a spectacle. Two Chicago guys broke their stick on that play. The guy that nobody cares about broke a stick along the boards and skated off. The guy that everyone sat and watched take three chops at a goal post was a spectacle. Personally, I think becoming a spectacle is unwarranted.

I agree that he was throwing a temper tantrum.  I don't blame him for being upset with himself.  It was a bad play that cost him the game.  I wish he would have found a better way to vent.  It was definitely poor form.  On the other hand, when you try to break your stick with one slam and it doesn't break, what ya gonna do?  Try it again (and again).  I'm not sure that warrants a penalty as it wasn't directed at anyone but himself.  If you are a parent watching with your child, make it a teachable moment.

[Eleven]

THIS THREAD MAKES ME MAD.  SMASH STICK.

[SDS]

3 minutes ago, RangerDave said:

I agree that he was throwing a temper tantrum.  I don't blame him for being upset with himself.  It was a bad play that cost him the game.  I wish he would have found a better way to vent.  It was definitely poor form.  On the other hand, when you try to break your stick with one slam and it doesn't break, what ya gonna do?  Try it again (and again).  I'm not sure that warrants a penalty as it wasn't directed at anyone but himself.  If you are a parent watching with your child, make it a teachable moment.

Can you name another sport where this is allowed? If you can’t, why not? 

What does it mean to have behavior that’s classified as unsportsmanlike in the rulebook, but other on ice unsportsmanlike behavior is clearly accepted?

[French Collection]

1 hour ago, JoeSchmoe said:

How many sticks would a U18 kid go through in a season? 

Interestingly, I bought my son a $200 stick that was on sale for just over $100 that was supposed to be a back / outdoor rink stick. He was shooting so well at the ODR that he tried it out in practice. Sure enough, he shoots better with that than his Super Tacks.

He has gone through 5. We got warranty (30 days) to cover 2 of them.

[Eleven]

33 minutes ago, SDS said:

Can you name another sport where this is allowed?

Baseball.

[French Collection]

32 minutes ago, SDS said:

Can you name another sport where this is allowed? If you can’t, why not? 

What does it mean to have behavior that’s classified as unsportsmanlike in the rulebook, but other on ice unsportsmanlike behavior is clearly accepted?

Pull out a pocket knife on the basketball court and deflate the ball. Not really comparable but that type of rage.

I’ve seen golf clubs abused, that is similar. I don’t want my son to do that either.

[DarthEbriate]

10 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Baseball.

Yup. Bo Jackson cracked his bat over his thigh after a strikeout and the world thought it was awesome.

[RangerDave]

48 minutes ago, SDS said:

Can you name another sport where this is allowed? If you can’t, why not? 

What does it mean to have behavior that’s classified as unsportsmanlike in the rulebook, but other on ice unsportsmanlike behavior is clearly accepted?

Soccer has a rule specifically against "ungentlemanly conduct", but of course they don't carry sticks.  Many players, however, are very emotional and let the world know when they are unhappy.  I can't recall a time when a player was issued a yellow card for the equivalent of smashing a kick.  Maybe kicking the ball back into the net after they are scored against?  Just not the same without an implement (stick, club, racquet or bat) to attempt to break.

[Eleven]

11 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

Yup. Bo Jackson cracked his bat over his thigh after a strikeout and the world thought it was awesome.

Absolutely.  And lesser specimens slam their bats on the ground after strikeouts and pop flies all the time.

[Curt]

18 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Baseball.

Tennis.  Yes, its penalized if you do it during play, but it’s not if you do it on court between games.  If you intentionally break your hockey stick during play that would also be called a delay of game or something.

[Curt]

15 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

Yup. Bo Jackson cracked his bat over his thigh after a strikeout and the world thought it was awesome.

[Eleven]

10 minutes ago, Curt said:

Tennis.  Yes, its penalized if you do it during play, but it’s not if you do it on court between games.  If you intentionally break your hockey stick during play that would also be called a delay of game or something.

I had thought of tennis, but I think you covered that above and you definitely know that rule better than I do!  I have seen squash players smash their racquets against the wall without penalty in internationally-sanctioned tournaments, too, come to think of it.

8 minutes ago, Curt said:

Bo's was the best.

[SDS]

52 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Baseball.

 

41 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

Yup. Bo Jackson cracked his bat over his thigh after a strikeout and the world thought it was awesome.

It feels like you are intentionally misrepresenting what I said. Did Bo Jackson stand on the field of play and repeatedly smash his bat on the ground? Again, I'm not aware of another sport that allows a similar display to what Chicago's goalie did last night. That was not typical, even in hockey.

[Eleven]

2 minutes ago, SDS said:

 

It feels like you are intentionally misrepresenting what I said. Did Bo Jackson stand on the field of play and repeatedly smash his bat on the ground? Again, I'm not aware of another sport that allows a similar display to what Chicago's goalie did last night. That was not typical, even in hockey.

I don't think we're trying to misrepresent your words.  In baseball, players can and do smash their bats on the ground repeatedly, is all.  And I've now mentioned squash and Curt has brought in tennis.  I know racket sports aren't nearly as popular as hockey, but they are still sports...

[French Collection]

Skinner with Canes sighting in this video. Plus, Lehner has a temper, who knew?

 

[SDS]

Just now, Eleven said:

I don't think we're trying to misrepresent your words.  In baseball, players can and do smash their bats on the ground repeatedly, is all.  And I've now mentioned squash and Curt has brought in tennis.  I know racket sports aren't nearly as popular as hockey, but they are still sports...

I am unaware of any baseball player walking into the infield and doing this repeatedly, including Bo Jackson.

Tennis:

Section 18: Player shall not engage in unsportsmanlike conduct. During the course of a match a player shall not engage in:
c. Racket abuse. Throw or break a racket other than in the normal course of play.

I don't know about squash. I doubt someone can just go and repeatedly bang their racket against the wall until it breaks without it breaking a rule.

[SDS]

14 minutes ago, Eleven said:

I don't think we're trying to misrepresent your words.  In baseball, players can and do smash their bats on the ground repeatedly, is all.  And I've now mentioned squash and Curt has brought in tennis.  I know racket sports aren't nearly as popular as hockey, but they are still sports...

"The Rules of Squash contain 20 rules, and they are all of equal value. You may not pick and choose which Rule you wish to follow and which to ignore; you must observe them all. So Rule 17 (Conduct on Court) is of equal value with Rule 4 (The Serve) and Rule 12 (Interference). Thus if you commit an offense under Rule 17, you must be penalized—that is what the Rule says."

https://squashmagazine.com/2009/10/a-kick-in-the-butt/

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, SDS said:

I am unaware of any baseball player walking into the infield and doing this repeatedly, including Bo Jackson.

 

No one said anything about infields.  But it does happen in the field of play, all the time, just not usually in fair territory (which should make sense).   I'll let @Curt handle the tennis.

59 minutes ago, SDS said:

"The Rules of Squash contain 20 rules, and they are all of equal value. You may not pick and choose which Rule you wish to follow and which to ignore; you must observe them all. So Rule 17 (Conduct on Court) is of equal value with Rule 4 (The Serve) and Rule 12 (Interference). Thus if you commit an offense under Rule 17, you must be penalized—that is what the Rule says."

https://squashmagazine.com/2009/10/a-kick-in-the-butt/

All I can say is that I've seen it happen repeatedly without penalty, again, at a pretty high-end tournament.  The article seems to support the fact that it is not penalized even though it is illegal.

In any event, I think we're getting to the point of quibbling.  Certainly there are sports where players abuse the equipment without penalty; there are a few examples now.  I'm not sure any of the examples have any bearing on what should or should not happen in the NHL anyway.

[DarthEbriate]

1 hour ago, SDS said:

It feels like you are intentionally misrepresenting what I said. Did Bo Jackson stand on the field of play and repeatedly smash his bat on the ground? Again, I'm not aware of another sport that allows a similar display to what Chicago's goalie did last night. That was not typical, even in hockey.

Bo knows it only takes one attempt to break a bat.

Although, I still think @Eleven's right with the answer of baseball. Baseball managers stop the game, throw tantrums (throw bases if they happen to be Lou Pinella), and basically put go into a whiny histrionic rage...  and it's perfectly acceptable. The crowd cheers or laughs. The umpires get all huffy and uppity and offended and then let the manager go about their tantrum, and then it's over.

And what's the outcome? Nothing. It's the manager. No one cares. The lineup card is still the lineup card. The shifts are still going to be dictated by a pre-game chart. The backup/bench coach is still going to make the same exact pitching changes, maybe be a bit more or less aggressive running the bases.

[SDS]

36 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

Bo knows it only takes one attempt to break a bat.

Although, I still think @Eleven's right with the answer of baseball. Baseball managers stop the game, throw tantrums (throw bases if they happen to be Lou Pinella), and basically put go into a whiny histrionic rage...  and it's perfectly acceptable. The crowd cheers or laughs. The umpires get all huffy and uppity and offended and then let the manager go about their tantrum, and then it's over.

And what's the outcome? Nothing. It's the manager. No one cares. The lineup card is still the lineup card. The shifts are still going to be dictated by a pre-game chart. The backup/bench coach is still going to make the same exact pitching changes, maybe be a bit more or less aggressive running the bases.

The outcome is that a manager acting in an unsportsmanlike manner on the field (eventually) gets thrown out. Maybe that doesn’t have a huge impact on the game, but the offending person is actually removed. He is penalized. If anything this supports my point.

Try punting the ball away or throwing it away in football. Try taking off your helmet and slamming into the ground. You’re immediately penalized. 

[skaught]

3 hours ago, RangerDave said:

Soccer has a rule specifically against "ungentlemanly conduct", but of course they don't carry sticks.  Many players, however, are very emotional and let the world know when they are unhappy.  I can't recall a time when a player was issued a yellow card for the equivalent of smashing a kick.  Maybe kicking the ball back into the net after they are scored against?  Just not the same without an implement (stick, club, racquet or bat) to attempt to break.

I play indoor soccer and got blue carded (2-min penalty) for drop kicking the ball over the boards/off the field, haha.

[kas23]

Football analogy is particularly apt. Throwing a helmet in frustration is an automatic penalty. So should breaking a stick in anger.