How many Norris Trophies will Dahlin win?

[Curt]

3 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

Hopefully he doesn't that award lost its meaning and how special it was .

all you have to do is score a ton of points 

During what time period did it not usually go to one of the top point producers?

[GASabresIUFAN]

12 minutes ago, Curt said:

During what time period did it not usually go to one of the top point producers?

Never.  Only non-hi-scoring D that I can remember winning the thing was Rod Langway.

[Buffalonill]

17 minutes ago, Curt said:

During what time period did it not usually go to one of the top point producers?

Welp it wasn't for who had the most points but all-around play 

Did you forget about Nicklas Lidstrom

 

[sabresparaavida]

In 2016, Drew Doughty won the Norris, despite having 31 less points than Erik Karlsson 

[GASabresIUFAN]

6 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

Welp it wasn't for who had the most points but all-around play 

Did you forget about Nicklas Lidstrom

 

 

1 minute ago, sabresparaavida said:

In 2016, Drew Doughty won the Norris, despite having 31 less points than Erik Karlsson 

But both were among the top scoring D. Guys like Pronger, Carlyle, Wilson etc all won the year they were near or at the top of the of the D scoring.  

I don’t remember stellar D oriented D like Mike Ramsey ever being considered for the Norris.  My guess is Rod Langway is the only Norris winner since expansion to win without putting up at least 40 points.

[Thorner]

18 hours ago, Norcal said:

70 points would put him in the running this year

Was talking about this on Twitter - the formula for Dahlin is points + playoffs

Even with it being a defenseman award, still often goes to the guy tallying the most goals and assists

The Sabres making the playoffs would significantly elevate Dahlin's candidacy, similar to how the Hart works 

4 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I went back to last season to see if we could see this breakout by Dahlin coming and the answer is kinda of. 

The answer is yes, yes we could.

[Thorner]

32 minutes ago, sabresparaavida said:

In 2016, Drew Doughty won the Norris, despite having 31 less points than Erik Karlsson 

True, but Doughty had 31 more points on the "good Canadian boy" scale, so 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Well here is the Norris history post Bobby Orr. (Orr won 8 straight and finished 1st in scoring the last 7, he missed half the season with injury the 1st time he won).

46 times the award has been given out (2005 no award) since Orr last won in 1975.  In 32 seasons the winner was 1st (20) or 2nd (12) in D scoring.  8 more times the player finished in the top 5 in D scoring.

The 6 times the winner finished outside the top 5: 2016 - Doughty finished 10th (51pts), 2009 - Chara finished 12th (50 pts), 1998 - Blake finished 8th (50 pts), 1993 - Chelios finished 9th (73pts).  Only Rod Langway won without scoring 50 or more points in a full season.  In 1984 he has 33 pts (44th) and in 1983 he had 32 pts (46th).

The last 4 years the guy who finished 2nd in points won the award. Lidstrom won the award 6 times and finished 1 (3), 2, 3, & 5th in D scoring the years he won.

Bottomline to win this award you need to be in the top 2 in D scoring and it helps to be on a top Cup contender.

Edited October 24, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[Weave]

50 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

 

But both were among the top scoring D. Guys like Pronger, Carlyle, Wilson etc all won the year they were near or at the top of the of the D scoring.  

I don’t remember stellar D oriented D like Mike Ramsey ever being considered for the Norris.  My guess is Rod Langway is the only Norris winner since expansion to win without putting up at least 40 points.

Mike Ramsey received Norris votes in at least 2 of his seasons.

[Thorner]

12 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Well here is the Norris history post Bobby Orr. (Orr won 8 straight and finished 1st in scoring the last 7, he missed half the season with injury the 1st time he won).

46 times the award has been given out (2005 no award) since Orr last won in 1975.  In 32 seasons the winner was 1st (20) or 2nd (12) in D scoring.  8 more times the player finished in the top 5 in D scoring.

The 6 times the winner finished outside the top 5: 2016 - Doughty finished 10th (51pts), 2009 - Chara finished 12th (50 pts), 1998 - Blake finished 8th (50 pts), 1993 - Chelios finished 9th (73pts).  Only Rod Langway won without scoring 50 or more points in a full season.  In 1984 he has 33 pts (44th) and in 1983 he had 32 pts (46th).

The last 4 years the guy who finished 2nd in points won the award. Lidstrom won the award 6 times and finished 1 (3), 2, 3, & 5th in D scoring the years he won.

Bottomline to win this award you need to be in the top 2 in D scoring and it helps to be on a top Cup contender.

Ya, I feel like it'll be a long time until the awards of the major sports aren't dominated by the raw stats that some of the advanced stats community don't really focus on as much anymore. 

NHL guy with the most points, regardless of position

MLB guy with the most RBIs

etc 

It is shifting slowly though I suppose 

[GASabresIUFAN]

5 minutes ago, Weave said:

Mike Ramsey received Norris votes in at least 2 of his seasons.

Actually he received votes 4 times and finished 7th, 10th, 12th and 15th.  Not exactly in contention for the award.  He out-pointed Langway in 1983 (38 to 32) and didn’t receive a single Norris vote.

[Curt]

1 hour ago, Buffalonill said:

Welp it wasn't for who had the most points but all-around play 

Did you forget about Nicklas Lidstrom

 

No.

My point is that it has basically always gone to someone in the top 5 of scoring defensemen.

It doesn’t always go to the top scoring D nowadays.  Overall play is definitely a factor.

I dont think much has changed in how it is awarded over the years.

[Weave]

20 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Actually he received votes 4 times and finished 7th, 10th, 12th and 15th.  Not exactly in contention for the award.  He out-pointed Langway in 1983 (38 to 32) and didn’t receive a single Norris vote.

If you knew that why did you state he was never considered for the Norris?  He was considered 4 times by your count?

[Curt]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

During what time period did it not usually go to one of the top point producers?

 

1 hour ago, Buffalonill said:

Welp it wasn't for who had the most points but all-around play 

Did you forget about Nicklas Lidstrom

 

Can you answer the question if you want to defend your position.  When did it not almost always go to one of the few top scoring D?

3 minutes ago, Weave said:

If you knew that why did you state he was never considered for the Norris?  He was considered 4 times by your count?

Define “considered”.

[GASabresIUFAN]

7 minutes ago, Weave said:

If you knew that why did you state he was never considered for the Norris?  He was considered 4 times by your count?

I left the word “seriously” off my post.  Sue me!  I don’t feel finishing 7th or worse in the Norris voting being seriously considered for the award.  

Edited October 24, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[SwampD]

Can he win one first before we start asking this question?! 

What's next?... an owner buying a team in order to win mutliple Stanley Cups?

[Buffalonill]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

No.

My point is that it has basically always gone to someone in the top 5 of scoring defensemen.

It doesn’t always go to the top scoring D nowadays.  Overall play is definitely a factor.

I dont think much has changed in how it is awarded over the years.

That I'll disagree with Erik Karlsson and burns,PK  should have never gotten the norris.

 

Onice quinn hughes wins it you'll understand what a joke it is 

[SwampD]

9 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

That I'll disagree with Erik Karlsson and burns,PK  should have never gotten the norris.

 

Onice quinn hughes wins it you'll understand what a joke it is 

The thing about awards is, they are really stupid,... and you want to win as many as you can.

[Pimlach]

11 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

That I'll disagree with Erik Karlsson and burns,PK  should have never gotten the norris.

 

Onice quinn hughes wins it you'll understand what a joke it is 

I hope Dahlin wins it a lot, and in the years that he doesn't win it, I hope Power does.  

[Buffalonill]

7 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I hope Dahlin wins it a lot, and in the years that he doesn't win it, I hope Power does.  

I would rather have them win cups and conn Smythe's 

[Pimlach]

3 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

I would rather have them win cups and conn Smythe's 

Me too but I am not opposed to Norris, Hart, and Ross Trophies for Sabres.  

[Weave]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I left the word “seriously” off my post.  Sue me!  I don’t feel finishing 7th or worse in the Norris voting being seriously considered for the award.  

Why are you getting biltchy with me?  It was your choice of words.

[Taro T]

8 hours ago, Weave said:

My recollection was most noted a difference in Dahlin shortly after the all star game.  Lots of discussion around Hedman talking to Dahlin during all star weekend and Dahlin came back a force.

Would love to know what Hedman told Dahlin.

Pretty sure it picked up when it became obvious he was going to be the Sabres rep in the ASG.  (Not sure if it preceded the actual announcement or not.)  And then he took it up another notch after playing in the ASG.

[Thorner]

57 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Pretty sure it picked up when it became obvious he was going to be the Sabres rep in the ASG.  (Not sure if it preceded the actual announcement or not.)  And then he took it up another notch after playing in the ASG.

Reinhart also "arrived" about half-way through a season, around the time of an outdoor game, IIRC. Sometimes it's just a development tipping-point being reached in terms of experience/games played. 

The All-Star game probably helped that process for Dahlin and provided some causation, but there's a lot of correlation there, too, I think - Dahlin was developing during the time young players are expected to develop. 

That's why the twitter takes writing him off like we had seen his ceiling already was always weird. Particularly a d-man 

[Porous Five Hole]

I’ll answer the question to say that Dahlin will win two Norris Trophies and will raise at least one Cup as the future Captain of the Buffalo Sabres.