2022 Offseason Game Plan

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, Taro T said:

Agree 100% on goaltending.  But, pretty sure Adams plan isn't exactly what either of us (or @GASabresIUFAN for that matter, who has brought it up a lot) would necessary say is THE right move.  He speaks openly of seeing the future as very bright but the question becomes how to bridge to that future..  Couple that with his also being on record as saying the kids still have much more growth to go through to get to the/a brighter future & that belief is simply reinforced.

I know, I think you are right. We have waited a long time and as we see signs of turning the corner we want to move it ahead as fast as we can. We want playoffs, or at least competing for them right up to the end, now, next season. 

I think it likely Adams has a longer time frame in mind and as long as it is moving (even slightly) forward he will consider it successful. I don't think they will tank for Bedard, but they might be thinking no need to not be in the lottery next year either. We will know for sure based on what (if anything) they do in free agency and into next season. 

3 hours ago, Weave said:

I bet noone would have signed up for a bet that our PP would be better after moving Jack and Sam.

you would have lost that bet. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by PerreaultForever

[elijah]

18 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

See, to the stay on topic point, I don't think the offense will need enhancing next year. I expect Krebs and Cozens will be more productive, as will Power, probably Mitts. Add Quinn. It's the defensive side of the game that needs enhancing (including goaltending). 

But do we really want to rely on ‘I expect’s and ‘probably’s? 

If your goal is to be a competitive team and see an overall shift in the organization to one that understands what it needs to do to compete, I certainly don’t want to rely on that. Add another forward (or two) on short term deals and either a) let the rest figure who’s the odd man out and recoup some assets for them, or b) let everyone else progress and the short term guy gets shown the door at the deadline or in the offseason

All of the people just expecting the natural progression and development to happen reek of complacency, I want my team to be competitive without having to hope that the kids either sustain their development or in some cases develop further. Not everyone is going to hit in the development that’s expected, we’re fans of a team that hasn’t made the playoffs in a decade and has a recent history of disastrous drafting and development, we of all people should realize this.

If we had this current squad and were tight to the cap? Then yeah, maybe hoping for development would be the way to go. But we’re simply not that team, we have the extra assets and the extra cap space. Use it. 

[PerreaultForever]

3 minutes ago, elijah said:

But do we really want to rely on ‘I expect’s and ‘probably’s? 

If your goal is to be a competitive team and see an overall shift in the organization to one that understands what it needs to do to compete, I certainly don’t want to rely on that. Add another forward (or two) on short term deals and either a) let the rest figure who’s the odd man out and recoup some assets for them, or b) let everyone else progress and the short term guy gets shown the door at the deadline or in the offseason

All of the people just expecting the natural progression and development to happen reek of complacency, I want my team to be competitive without having to hope that the kids either sustain their development or in some cases develop further. Not everyone is going to hit in the development that’s expected, we’re fans of a team that hasn’t made the playoffs in a decade and has a recent history of disastrous drafting and development, we of all people should realize this.

If we had this current squad and were tight to the cap? Then yeah, maybe hoping for development would be the way to go. But we’re simply not that team, we have the extra assets and the extra cap space. Use it. 

I hear you, but in a big way I do in fact want to rely on the probablys and I expects. 

I think we have to have faith in these kids and at this stage I think team chemistry and continuing to build that young core together is more important than rushing the plan. 

 

[elijah]

10 hours ago, PickaPecaPickles said:

Seems reasonably doable with the projected group?

Skinner Tnt Tuch = 95-100  

VO Mitts Quinn    =  60-70

Z Asplund KO      =  40

Krebs Cozens JJP = 45

D                            = 20-25

Total                      = 260-280 or 3.17 - 3.41 ppg

30 / 30 / 20 = 80

25 / 10-15 / 20 = 55-60

10 / 10 / 15 = 35

10 / 15-20 / 15 = 40-45

20-30

250 - 3.04 gpg 

 

If everyone doesn’t progress as we’d hope, if Skinner/Thompson have a down year, if Quinn/JJP don’t have the immediate impact expected, if Cozens doesn’t contribute more all of these totals could be even less than this.

You’re looking at 3.04 goals per game, which is still a below average offense, while also not having an answer for the goalie tandem yet. You’ve got to add another producer (or two) for a worst case scenario. You can’t just expect that everyone performs as you’d hope. 

Granted, if everyone develops the way they’re expected then it will probably be more goals than this, and ideally much more. But why risk ‘as expected’ when you have the cap to have a backup plan for when one or two guys have a down year or don’t progress right? 

[elijah]

1 minute ago, PerreaultForever said:

I hear you, but in a big way I do in fact want to rely on the probablys and I expects. 

I think we have to have faith in these kids and at this stage I think team chemistry and continuing to build that young core together is more important than rushing the plan. 

 

I just don’t view it as rushing the plan if you’re adding a short term guy with your extra cap space. Rushing the plan to me would be adding someone on a long term big money deal, or packaging assets in a trade for an upgrade. Maybe that’s the difference in opinion? 

Short term cap space is expendable. Have a thorough vetting process and you’re bound to find at least one guy that you can overpay for a year or two to not only produce, but also be a mentor. 

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, elijah said:

I just don’t view it as rushing the plan if you’re adding a short term guy with your extra cap space. Rushing the plan to me would be adding someone on a long term big money deal, or packaging assets in a trade for an upgrade. Maybe that’s the difference in opinion? 

Short term cap space is expendable. Have a thorough vetting process and you’re bound to find at least one guy that you can overpay for a year or two to not only produce, but also be a mentor. 

You're not going to realistically land any decent free agents on short term deals unless nobody wants them for some reason (so best to heed that reason and avoid them too) or they are over the hill. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

You're not going to realistically land any decent free agents on short term deals unless nobody wants them for some reason (so best to heed that reason and avoid them too) or they are over the hill. 

There maybe something in this.  However, I think all goalies are competitors and they want to be starters in the NHL.  There are only 32 such jobs and while we aren’t a playoff team, we are a much improved team with an opening for a starting goalie.  Guys like Holtby, who has won a Cup, or DeSmith who has never been a starter, should be interested in the job.

[PerreaultForever]

7 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

There maybe something in this.  However, I think all goalies are competitors and they want to be starters in the NHL.  There are only 32 such jobs and while we aren’t a playoff team, we are a much improved team with an opening for a starting goalie.  Guys like Holtby, who has won a Cup, or DeSmith who has never been a starter, should be interested in the job.

I'd consider DeSmith. He's only 30 and has played some pretty good games. Holtby's a little too long in the tooth for me. I know, Anderson is even older, but one season of that is enough. I'd rather have this issue dealt with and over and have someone for a few years straight while we wait on the kids. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, PerreaultForever said:

I'd consider DeSmith. He's only 30 and has played some pretty good games. Holtby's a little too long in the tooth for me. I know, Anderson is even older, but one season of that is enough. I'd rather have this issue dealt with and over and have someone for a few years straight while we wait on the kids. 

Holtby is only 32.  

[JohnC]

16 hours ago, Taro T said:

Agree 100% on goaltending.  But, pretty sure Adams plan isn't exactly what either of us (or @GASabresIUFAN for that matter, who has brought it up a lot) would necessary say is THE right move.  He speaks openly of seeing the future as very bright but the question becomes how to bridge to that future..  Couple that with his also being on record as saying the kids still have much more growth to go through to get to the/a brighter future & that belief is simply reinforced.

You bring up a key question about KA and what his time frame is to become a serious team? Is he going to be patient and let this team and organization mostly rely on the draft and develop approach to building a SC caliber team and organization? If he almost solely relies on the organic method of the draft and develop strategy without smartly utilizing his assets of cap space and extra picks to improve the roster, I think he would be making a mistake of not taking advantage of the situation. 

We haven't heard from @Thornyin a while. Everyone knows where he stands on this issue. He would forcefully argue to be aggressive in a responsible way to do what is necessary to get better sooner rather than later. I'm a little less zealous in the position he has but in general I'm in his camp. When you have an opportunity to get better, you should do it. 

[Flashsabre]

9 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Holtby is only 32.  

Maybe he looks at it in dog years😜

[Buffalonill]

I want buffalo to go after   malkin and letang sign them both for 10m a year for 2 years 

Edited April 23, 2022 by Buffalonill

[PickaPecaPickles]

17 hours ago, elijah said:

30 / 30 / 20 = 80

25 / 10-15 / 20 = 55-60

10 / 10 / 15 = 35

10 / 15-20 / 15 = 40-45

20-30

250 - 3.04 gpg 

 

If everyone doesn’t progress as we’d hope, if Skinner/Thompson have a down year, if Quinn/JJP don’t have the immediate impact expected, if Cozens doesn’t contribute more all of these totals could be even less than this.

You’re looking at 3.04 goals per game, which is still a below average offense, while also not having an answer for the goalie tandem yet. You’ve got to add another producer (or two) for a worst case scenario. You can’t just expect that everyone performs as you’d hope. 

Granted, if everyone develops the way they’re expected then it will probably be more goals than this, and ideally much more. But why risk ‘as expected’ when you have the cap to have a backup plan for when one or two guys have a down year or don’t progress right? 

Since this thread is about offense, that was the focus.  You seem to believe that bringing in some veterans is NOT without the possibility they will under-perform.  Adding players like ROR, Kane or Hall didn't put the Sabres over the playoff hump, so there's no guarantee your plan will work either.

Personally, I like what they're doing, building chemistry with the young talent they have, and I think this group is more than capable of scoring at a playoff level clip. That said, it's clear the #1 issue for next year is to address goal tending.

[PerreaultForever]

13 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Holtby is only 32.  

Plays like he's 50

[Flashsabre]

Spoiler Alert: It’s been enhanced😉

[Broken Ankles]

7 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

I want buffalo to go after   malkin and letang sign them both for 10m a year for 2 years 

As in $10m total for both, or $10m each.  A $40m commitment to two aging players not worth their contracts today?  But more, 100% guaranteed, for two more years, each.   

[Norcal]

If it's one guy I would go for Filip Forsberg. 

That's not gonna happen but he would be a perfect addition in my opinion. 

[Huckleberry]

I think as for goalies going forward.

Strauss Mann signed with the sharks so he is off the table.

Calvin pickard I would target as a backup or maybe try to get Driedger away from Seatle.
Leafs going to want to dump Mrazek so wait for them to buy him out or a 7th round pick?

[Taro T]

23 hours ago, JohnC said:

You bring up a key question about KA and what his time frame is to become a serious team? Is he going to be patient and let this team and organization mostly rely on the draft and develop approach to building a SC caliber team and organization? If he almost solely relies on the organic method of the draft and develop strategy without smartly utilizing his assets of cap space and extra picks to improve the roster, I think he would be making a mistake of not taking advantage of the situation. 

We haven't heard from @Thornyin a while. Everyone knows where he stands on this issue. He would forcefully argue to be aggressive in a responsible way to do what is necessary to get better sooner rather than later. I'm a little less zealous in the position he has but in general I'm in his camp. When you have an opportunity to get better, you should do it. 

My opinion, based on what has been said by Adams and what has been reported to have been said by him, is that he's going to look to bring in an established goalie, or 2, of which Anderson could very well be 1 of those (whether it's 1 or 2 brought in) on a ST (3 years max, likely 2 years); a veteran RHD, a bottom 6 F, and a middle 6 F.  Also expect he'll make an offer to Hinostroza & Pysyk to re-sign.  Which is very much in line w/ what the board concensus seems to be.

My expectation is he makes at least 2 trades to obtain those pieces & those trades bring back a degree of "dead cap" so to speak in including 1 year's worth of either bad contract that could very well end up in Ra-cha-cha or LTIR contract for an effectively retired player that is still cashing a paycheck.

Whomever he brings in will have some sort of tie to either Buffalo or the Sabres staff &/or players (more likely, players) as he'll be quite sure the guy both wants to be here & has the mind set of the players he wants to be here.  And since he likely won't know that directly himself w/out brushing up against rules against tampering until a trade is consummated, there'll be some sort of other tie in.

Who gets brought in at D IMHO will go a long way towards determining whether Johnson eventually signs here or not.  (Really going out on a limb there.  Not.)

Expecting that Adams expects to miss the playoffs this year, but that they'll be close (similar to Vancouver's ultimate end this season) & if Krebs & Cozens take the next step ahead of schedule & the right goalie is here that the playoffs won't be out of the question.

Pretty sure he also sees this team as being tight against the cap in 3-5 years, so there won't be any big money LT contracts coming in.

And that all leaves this kid both frustrated that next year won't be as successful as it easily could be but also hopeful in believing they'll be close to a Florida level team 3-4 years from now and a Dallas level team in 2 years.

My expectation is that Adams has a reasonably good handle on how to improve the skaters next year but not convinced in the least that he'll successfully navigate the waters & land the right bridge goalie.  Hope that latter's too pessimistic, but until it isn't, it is.

Also expect him to sign a whole bunch of NHL 13-14 F's & 7-8 D on 1 year deals to have Ra-cha-cha actually stocked while waiting for guys like Rosen & the Russians to be ready to stock it.  Could also see Subban back as Ra-cha-cha's goalie depending upon his recovery timeline.  Because prospect-wise, other than Quinn who'll start the year in Buffalo & Peterka who'll be a November callup, don't see any sure fire NHLers down on the farm.

[JohnC]

11 minutes ago, Taro T said:

My opinion, based on what has been said by Adams and what has been reported to have been said by him, is that he's going to look to bring in an established goalie, or 2, of which Anderson could very well be 1 of those (whether it's 1 or 2 brought in) on a ST (3 years max, likely 2 years); a veteran RHD, a bottom 6 F, and a middle 6 F.  Also expect he'll make an offer to Hinostroza & Pysyk to re-sign.  Which is very much in line w/ what the board concensus seems to be.

My expectation is he makes at least 2 trades to obtain those pieces & those trades bring back a degree of "dead cap" so to speak in including 1 year's worth of either bad contract that could very well end up in Ra-cha-cha or LTIR contract for an effectively retired player that is still cashing a paycheck.

Whomever he brings in will have some sort of tie to either Buffalo or the Sabres staff &/or players (more likely, players) as he'll be quite sure the guy both wants to be here & has the mind set of the players he wants to be here.  And since he likely won't know that directly himself w/out brushing up against rules against tampering until a trade is consummated, there'll be some sort of other tie in.

Who gets brought in at D IMHO will go a long way towards determining whether Johnson eventually signs here or not.  (Really going out on a limb there.  Not.)

Expecting that Adams expects to miss the playoffs this year, but that they'll be close (similar to Vancouver's ultimate end this season) & if Krebs & Cozens take the next step ahead of schedule & the right goalie is here that the playoffs won't be out of the question.

Pretty sure he also sees this team as being tight against the cap in 3-5 years, so there won't be any big money LT contracts coming in.

And that all leaves this kid both frustrated that next year won't be as successful as it easily could be but also hopeful in believing they'll be close to a Florida level team 3-4 years from now and a Dallas level team in 2 years.

My expectation is that Adams has a reasonably good handle on how to improve the skaters next year but not convinced in the least that he'll successfully navigate the waters & land the right bridge goalie.  Hope that latter's too pessimistic, but until it isn't, it is.

Also expect him to sign a whole bunch of NHL 13-14 F's & 7-8 D on 1 year deals to have Ra-cha-cha actually stocked while waiting for guys like Rosen & the Russians to be ready to stock it.  Could also see Subban back as Ra-cha-cha's goalie depending upon his recovery timeline.  Because prospect-wise, other than Quinn who'll start the year in Buffalo & Peterka who'll be a November callup, don't see any sure fire NHLers down on the farm.

You very well laid out where this team is and the potential for the near term is. It basically revolves around the goalie issue. I don't want to reprise the Ullmark issue but if he would have signed him even at the hometown premium price he was asking for compared to the discounted price that he signed with Boston or have a better fallback position last offseason if he couldn't sign the goalie, this team would be in a better place moving forward. 

I strongly believe as @Thornybelieves that with a little more aggressiveness this offseason, the GM could accelerate the rebuilding process and make this team's prospect for a serious playoff run next year more likely. The Sabres have the assets in cap space and extra picks to make a couple strategic moves that would advance the franchise's timetable toward meaningful respectability. If smartly used this team can still maintain its organic rebuild strategy and put itself in a better situation. 

I have a slightly difference of opinion regarding Johnson and his decision to remain in the college ranks or not. As with Portillo and Levi what the GM does has little influence with their respective individual decisions. In each case one can make a good case to stay in school and not. It's simply a personal decision that includes hockey and other considerations. 

[Taro T]

7 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You very well laid out where this team is and the potential for the near term is. It basically revolves around the goalie issue. I don't want to reprise the Ullmark issue but if he would have signed him even at the hometown premium price he was asking for compared to the discounted price that he signed with Boston or have a better fallback position last offseason if he couldn't sign the goalie, this team would be in a better place moving forward. 

I strongly believe as @Thornybelieves that with a little more aggressiveness this offseason, the GM could accelerate the rebuilding process and make this team's prospect for a serious playoff run next year more likely. The Sabres have the assets in cap space and extra picks to make a couple strategic moves that would advance the franchise's timetable toward meaningful respectability. If smartly used this team can still maintain its organic rebuild strategy and put itself in a better situation. 

I have a slightly difference of opinion regarding Johnson and his decision to remain in the college ranks or not. As with Portillo and Levi what the GM does has little influence with their respective individual decisions. In each case one can make a good case to stay in school and not. It's simply a personal decision that includes hockey and other considerations. 

The rebuild could definitely get accelerated.  And my expectation is that it will to a moderate degree.

One minor point.  Didn't say the move(s) on D will affect whether Johnson stays in school or not.  Said it'll effect whether he signs or not.  Expect the reason we haven't heard whether he's going back to school or going pro is because he simply hasn't made up his mind. Expect he sees the merit in the view that he'll grow more playing against men than college aged kids/men but that he'll also have a lot more fun being a BMOC one final time.

If the Sabres get a guy who could be a LT fit on their top 4 then it's a no brainer to go back to school & FA next summer.  But if that guy is a 1-2 year stop gap, then being a part of what could be a historic D-corp has merit after a 1-2 year stay in the A.

W/ what D salaries are for young guys, the couple of extra $100k his NHL portion of a 2 way deal (which he'll likely be in the A anyhow) that he might get by burning a year of ELC right now seems to not be worth having a couple of extra months to get this decision right.  IMHO, that's a wise decision in itself.

[Flashsabre]

4 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

I think as for goalies going forward.

Strauss Mann signed with the sharks so he is off the table.

Calvin pickard I would target as a backup or maybe try to get Driedger away from Seatle.
Leafs going to want to dump Mrazek so wait for them to buy him out or a 7th round pick?

They could give us 2 first round picks and I wouldn’t touch Mrazek with a ten foot pole.

Why does everyone want the bargain basement Tokarski like goalies.Are you not done watching this team being held back by awful goaltending?

This team is last OA in save percentage the past couple months.

GO GET A QUALITY GOALIE

[Huckleberry]

30 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

They could give us 2 first round picks and I wouldn’t touch Mrazek with a ten foot pole.

Why does everyone want the bargain basement Tokarski like goalies.Are you not done watching this team being held back by awful goaltending?

This team is last OA in save percentage the past couple months.

GO GET A QUALITY GOALIE

You are not getting that , you might get a good goalie by taking a gamble on one of these.  Too many teams in this league have goalie issues, you go out and gamble one will pan out.  Even if its Mrazek, Pickard or Driedger. 

[Flashsabre]

4 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

You are not getting that , you might get a good goalie by taking a gamble on one of these.  Too many teams in this league have goalie issues, you go out and gamble one will pan out.  Even if its Mrazek, Pickard or Driedger. 

So they have $20 million to spend to get to the cap floor. So don’t go after a Kuemper or Husso but instead go get Mrazek. Sounds like a loser mentality to me.

[Huckleberry]

1 minute ago, Flashsabre said:

So they have $20 million to spend to get to the cap floor. So don’t go after a Kuemper or Husso but instead go get Mrazek. Sounds like a loser mentality to me.

Kuemper might not pan out all with us, who is Husso ?   What makes people think spending money on Kuemper is good ?  what has he proven to be a top 10 goalie in this league ?  

Rather give the kings a 3rd rounder for Quick as a 1 year stopgap then.

Edited April 24, 2022 by Huckleberry