Why Rush the process? KA's plan

[Crusader1969]

Krebs won’t be a rookie next year 

Quinn and JJ in the AHL again next year could stunt their growth as much as anything.  They need to play in the NHL

Power wont spend a minute in the AHL 

 

[sweetlou]

6 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

Krebs won’t be a rookie next year 

Quinn and JJ in the AHL again next year could stunt their growth as much as anything.  They need to play in the NHL

Power wont spend a minute in the AHL 

 

I think Quinn and JJ start the year in AHL and get NHL action during injury call ups.  We need to add some veteran leadership with winning pedigrees to help Cozens, Dahlin, Mitts, Krebs and Tage.  I'd rather see them winning and developing a 200ft game in the AHL and then come up and fit in and not be overwhelmed.

[GASabresIUFAN]

52 minutes ago, sweetlou said:

I think Quinn and JJ start the year in AHL and get NHL action during injury call ups.  We need to add some veteran leadership with winning pedigrees to help Cozens, Dahlin, Mitts, Krebs and Tage.  I'd rather see them winning and developing a 200ft game in the AHL and then come up and fit in and not be overwhelmed.

Quinn is not starting next year in the AHL.  He'd be a Sabre right now if it wasn't in the teams favor to keep him in the minors thereby sliding his contract another year. Because of COVID we'll end up with 5 years out of Quinn's ELC.    

[French Collection]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Quinn is not starting next year in the AHL.  He'd be a Sabre right now if it wasn't in the teams favor to keep him in the minors thereby sliding his contract another year. Because of COVID we'll end up with 5 years out of Quinn's ELC.    

Quinn is an upgrade over Eakin, Bjork, Hayden, Hinestroza, Asplund, Jankowski and Krebs right now. He should be on the starting lineup in October. He will get stronger this summer and the only thing the AHL can do for him is help with his defensive game, which is not horrible and is not as critical for a winger.

[JohnC]

4 hours ago, sweetlou said:

I think Quinn and JJ start the year in AHL and get NHL action during injury call ups.  We need to add some veteran leadership with winning pedigrees to help Cozens, Dahlin, Mitts, Krebs and Tage.  I'd rather see them winning and developing a 200ft game in the AHL and then come up and fit in and not be overwhelmed.

Don Granato has said on the radio on more than one occasion that he felt that Quinn has outgrown the AHL. He stated from even a developmental standpoint he would benefit more playing in the NHL.

[Porous Five Hole]

49 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Don Granato has said on the radio on more than one occasion that he felt that Quinn has outgrown the AHL. He stated from even a developmental standpoint he would benefit more playing in the NHL.

 

1 hour ago, French Collection said:

Quinn is an upgrade over Eakin, Bjork, Hayden, Hinestroza, Asplund, Jankowski and Krebs right now. He should be on the starting lineup in October. He will get stronger this summer and the only thing the AHL can do for him is help with his defensive game, which is not horrible and is not as critical for a winger.

Quinn is also out of the ROC lineup tonight and allegedly day-to-day. 
 

Maybe the NHL game is too demanding for his body type right now? Keep him in ROC on his fitness plan and see how he looks in the fall.  

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Porous Five Hole said:

 

Quinn is also out of the ROC lineup tonight and allegedly day-to-day. 
 

Maybe the NHL game is too demanding for his body type right now? Keep him in ROC on his fitness plan and see how he looks in the fall.  

The fitness plan will be executed in the offseason. Krebs and Quinn will have a lot of work to do this offseason. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

The fitness plan will be executed in the offseason. Krebs and Quinn will have a lot of work to do this offseason. 

That should apply to everyone in the organization from TP/KP to the management to the scouts to the trainers to the doctors to the equipment managers to the promotions department to the arena maintenance team to the coaches and to the players.  This entire organization needs to take a real look inward and decide what they personally need to do to move this team forward. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[Porous Five Hole]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That should apply to everyone in the organization from TP/KP to the management to the scouts to the trainers to the doctors to the equipment managers to the promotions department to the arena maintenance team to the coaches and to the players.  This entire organization needs to take a real look inward and decide what hey personally need to do to move this team forward. 

Does this apply to fans?? Are you calling me out haha??
Because the covid 19 lbs are real. 😬😜🍰🥃🌝

[JohnC]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That should apply to everyone in the organization from TP/KP to the management to the scouts to the trainers to the doctors to the equipment managers to the promotions department to the arena maintenance team to the coaches and to the players.  This entire organization needs to take a real look inward and decide what they personally need to do to move this team forward. 

I agree with you that the organization has to do a major review to assess itself. 

With respect to my comment about conditioning it was directed to the younger players such as Krebs and Quinn who need to get stronger to compete against men. An example of my point is it wasn't until Tage and Mitts got stronger (took years) that they able to hold their own from a physical standpoint. 

[Flashsabre]

Rochester are teetering on not being in a playoff spot.  If the Amerks miss the playoffs then that is a disaster for this franchise and the "development plan".

This offseason has to be committed to pushing this entire organization forward to being competitive for both the players and fans sakes.

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Flashsabre said:

Rochester are teetering on not being in a playoff spot.  If the Amerks miss the playoffs then that is a disaster for this franchise and the "development plan".

This offseason has to be committed to pushing this entire organization forward to being competitive for both the players and fans sakes.

You're seeing a symptom of a problem this org has had for 10 years. When you don't draft well your ahl team is gonna reflect it. Buffalo has just started drafting better but those better players are in the NHL sapping the ahl of skill. 

The AHL team really suffers from Samuelsson, Bryson, Fitz all being promoted. 

We're 2 more good drafts away from the ahl team having the depth it needs. It's why we're another year away from playoffs unless magic goaltending happens like the Rangers

[GASabresIUFAN]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

You're seeing a symptom of a problem this org has had for 10 years. When you don't draft well your ahl team is gonna reflect it. Buffalo has just started drafting better but those better players are in the NHL sapping the ahl of skill. 

The AHL team really suffers from Samuelsson, Bryson, Fitz all being promoted. 

We're 2 more good drafts away from the ahl team having the depth it needs. It's why we're another year away from playoffs unless magic goaltending happens like the Rangers

You keep saying this, but it simply isn't true.  Jbot's 1st draft has 5/6 are either in the AHL or NHL with 2 already established in the NHL (Mitts & Bryson).  Weissbach, Laaksonen and UPL are key Amerks and have NHL potential.  From Jbot's 2nd draft are 2 NHLers in Samuelsson and Dahlin.  From his 3rd you have Cozens in the NHL and 2 college stars in Portillo and Johnson as well as Huglen, Cederqvist (Swe) and Rousek (AHL but injured) all still developing.  All told, we will probably end up with 8-10 NHLers from these drafts and with some luck possibly more.

What is true is Jbot's strategy of not drafting CHL players outside the 1st rd has sapped the normal flow of prospects to the AHL from the CHL.  Also injuries to nearly 20 players in Buffalo and Rochester have stretched this organization thin.  The Sabres have already utilized 39 players (6 goalies) and the Amerks 36 (5). 

[dudacek]

51 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

You're seeing a symptom of a problem this org has had for 10 years. When you don't draft well your ahl team is gonna reflect it. Buffalo has just started drafting better but those better players are in the NHL sapping the ahl of skill. 

The AHL team really suffers from Samuelsson, Bryson, Fitz all being promoted. 

We're 2 more good drafts away from the ahl team having the depth it needs. It's why we're another year away from playoffs unless magic goaltending happens like the Rangers

Not buying this. It's not drafting, it's health. Completely healthy the Sabres have 10 drafted prospects on the Amerks, plus Krebs

• Quinn Krebs Peterka
• Murray
• Rousek Weissbach
• Pekar
• Samuelsson Fitzgerald
• Laaksonen
• UPL

An AHL team featuring 10 drafted prospects is on the high side for most NHL systems.

[GASabresIUFAN]

9 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Not buying this. It's not drafting, it's health. Completely healthy the Sabres have 10 drafted prospects on the Amerks, plus Krebs

• Quinn Krebs Peterka
• Murray
• Rousek Weissbach
• Pekar
• Samuelsson Fitzgerald
• Laaksonen
• UPL

An AHL team featuring 10 drafted prospects is on the high side for most NHL systems.

Bingo!

[DarthEbriate]

This season, health is definitely the cause all three @LGR4GM @GASabresIUFAN @dudacek are stating. The Amerks were in 2nd place behind juggernaut Utica until the injuries (and a COVID wave - Toker, etc.) set in and caused all manner of reshuffling and missed games.

@GASabresIUFAN, I think your contention of the bolded...

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

You're seeing a symptom of a problem this org has had for 10 years. When you don't draft well your ahl team is gonna reflect it. Buffalo has just started drafting better but those better players are in the NHL sapping the ahl of skill. 

... needs a touch of clarification. You list the 2017 draft as a backbone of the Amerks team and you're right: it is. But in terms of drafts, 2017 is "just started". Whether a player tops out in the NHL or AHL, it's typically 3-5 years from draft date until they reach that level. The other issue is that the subsequent drafts could be better for the Amerks, but the players aren't there (either injury: Rousek or called up to the Sabres) or in college or Europe.

For the past 10 years the bulk of the Sabres' 1st round picks basically skip the AHL, with many cases where much more grooming would've been helpful, but the NHL squad didn't have anyone to block them. The franchise needed to have more draft picks simply settle in at the good-veteran-AHL level (Sean Malone, Brett Murray, or simply stay in Rochester a bit longer before promoting/losing them.

Edited March 10, 2022 by DarthEbriate

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

You keep saying this, but it simply isn't true.  Jbot's 1st draft has 5/6 are either in the AHL or NHL with 2 already established in the NHL (Mitts & Bryson).  Weissbach, Laaksonen and UPL are key Amerks and have NHL potential.  From Jbot's 2nd draft are 2 NHLers in Samuelsson and Dahlin.  From his 3rd you have Cozens in the NHL and 2 college stars in Portillo and Johnson as well as Huglen, Cederqvist (Swe) and Rousek (AHL but injured) all still developing.  All told, we will probably end up with 8-10 NHLers from these drafts and with some luck possibly more.

What is true is Jbot's strategy of not drafting CHL players outside the 1st rd has sapped the normal flow of prospects to the AHL from the CHL.  Also injuries to nearly 20 players in Buffalo and Rochester have stretched this organization thin.  The Sabres have already utilized 39 players (6 goalies) and the Amerks 36 (5). 

Could have saved you a lot of wasted typing. Recently is within the last 5 years. 

Your problem and most of this boards problem is looking at drafts mean projecting 5 years. 

So yes, what I said is true. The Sabres only started draft good recently. 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Not buying this. It's not drafting, it's health. Completely healthy the Sabres have 10 drafted prospects on the Amerks, plus Krebs

• Quinn Krebs Peterka
• Murray
• Rousek Weissbach
• Pekar
• Samuelsson Fitzgerald
• Laaksonen
• UPL

An AHL team featuring 10 drafted prospects is on the high side for most NHL systems.

It's drafting. Especially when you realize you're listening draft picks and all come from recent drafts. 

Also Pekar and Laaksonen I doubt ever hit 200 nhl games. 

Also also this is revisionist. Samuelsson, Fitz, Krebs are not in the Amerks... that's part of the Amerks issues. So now you have 2 mediocre players in Pekar and Laaksonen and 3 missing players. Rousek is injured. 

All comes back to drafting. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by LGR4GM

[LGR4GM]

We need to stop acting like every pick we make is good. Pekar is probably not an NHL player. Laaksonen lacks the defense and might top out as replacement level. Rousek and Weissbach might be depth wingers. Murray is a depth winger. We've clearly forgotten that it's not just find nhl player, it's fine impact nhl player and that's the problem. 

[dudacek]

12 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

It's drafting. Especially when you realize you're listening draft picks and all come from recent drafts. 

Also Pekar and Laaksonen I doubt ever hit 200 nhl games. 

Also also this is revisionist. Samuelsson, Fitz, Krebs are not in the Amerks... that's part of the Amerks issues. So now you have 2 mediocre players in Pekar and Laaksonen and 3 missing players. 

All comes back to drafting. 

What are you saying, that the Amerks are empty right now because the Sabres should have more than 14 guys on pro contracts from the 2016-20 drafts?

With 4 picks still in college (Costantini, Huglen, Johnson, Portilo) likely to get offers?

Who does that?

Except for late-signing Euro and college players, pre-2016 players are past their ELC and are generally NHLers or have moved on.

[Randall Flagg]

Can we hope for Boldy-like production from Quinn next year?

[GASabresIUFAN]

32 minutes ago, dudacek said:

What are you saying, that the Amerks are empty right now because the Sabres should have more than 14 guys on pro contracts from the 2016-20 drafts?

With 4 picks still in college (Costantini, Huglen, Johnson, Portilo) likely to get offers?

Who does that?

Except for late-signing Euro and college players, pre-2016 players are past their ELC and are generally NHLers or have moved on.

No one!  It's why organization sign college, European and CHL undrafted (or unsigned see Hagel) FA's. It's why guys like Biro, R2 (both legit prospects), Pilut and Oglevie were signed.  

The Amerks also aren't empty.  Biro (36 in 40 games), R2 (32 pts in 35 games) Quinn, Murray, Weissbach, JJP are all legit prospects.  In fact the Amerks are only really down two prospects (Samuelsson and Fitz).  Krebs is in Buffalo, but R2 was sent down to replace him and as you can see he has been productive.  They also have good to excellent AHL vets like Mersch, Prow and MacInnis.  

The Amerks issues are the same as Buffalo's defense and goaltending.  UPL (9-10-1) has a 3.36 gaa & .894 Save %.  Dell is only marginally better with a 2.93 and .906.  The other 3 Amerks goalies have been as bad or worse.  

[LGR4GM]

53 minutes ago, dudacek said:

What are you saying, that the Amerks are empty right now because the Sabres should have more than 14 guys on pro contracts from the 2016-20 drafts?

With 4 picks still in college (Costantini, Huglen, Johnson, Portilo) likely to get offers?

Who does that?

Except for late-signing Euro and college players, pre-2016 players are past their ELC and are generally NHLers or have moved on.

No, I'm saying they are light because they spent years drafting bad and it hasn't fully recovered.

24 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Can we hope for Boldy-like production from Quinn next year?

Maybe

Edited March 10, 2022 by LGR4GM

[LGR4GM]

10 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

No one!  It's why organization sign college, European and CHL undrafted (or unsigned see Hagel) FA's. It's why guys like Biro, R2 (both legit prospects), Pilut and Oglevie were signed.  

The Amerks also aren't empty.  Biro (36 in 40 games), R2 (32 pts in 35 games) Quinn, Murray, Weissbach, JJP are all legit prospects.  In fact the Amerks are only really down two prospects (Samuelsson and Fitz).  Krebs is in Buffalo, but R2 was sent down to replace him and as you can see he has been productive.  They also have good to excellent AHL vets like Mersch, Prow and MacInnis.  

The Amerks issues are the same as Buffalo's defense and goaltending.  UPL (9-10-1) has a 3.36 gaa & .894 Save %.  Dell is only marginally better with a 2.93 and .906.  The other 3 Amerks goalies have been as bad or worse.  

"The Amerks aren't empty!"

Proceeds to say their goaltending and defense are not good. 

Which was a chunk of my point. 

[GoPuckYourself]

22 hours ago, sweetlou said:

I think Quinn and JJ start the year in AHL and get NHL action during injury call ups.  We need to add some veteran leadership with winning pedigrees to help Cozens, Dahlin, Mitts, Krebs and Tage.  I'd rather see them winning and developing a 200ft game in the AHL and then come up and fit in and not be overwhelmed.

We already have vets in place.... Okposo, Girgensons, who are these top 6 free agents or trades you are looking to add, they better be top notch if it means we're burying part of our core next year. Who are you proposing will come here?