Jack vs Tuch/Krebs - Has this hockey trade improved either team?

[jsb]

13 minutes ago, The Ghost of Doohickie said:

It's Hiney-Stroka ...

You Stroka your Hiney your way and I'll Stroza the Man my way. 😀

[GASabresIUFAN]

22 hours ago, Broken Ankles said:

Wouldn’t swap, and definitely happy with both.  I was just curious if this sent out there to place a wedge between the players or Krebs and management.  From the interview I heard of Krebs on The Instigators, dude seems really content with the Org. 

I don’t think management ever had a problem with Krebs the person or the player.  Their issue was his pre-draft Achilles injury. The injury sent a top 10 player down to 17.  We are fortunate that he has recovered well and is now playing to his original draft status.

[Johnny Utah]

On 3/9/2022 at 2:16 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

The Stafford hype train really started when he, like Quinn now, blew-up in Rochester with 22 goals in 34 games.  Stafford had the add benefit on coming into the best team in the NHL.  I don't remember any real hype on Pysyk.  In fact it was rather subdued on him as well because he looked like a boring (in a good way) stay at home D, much like the expectations for Johnson.   I think there was more hype around McCabe who was better in his college seasons then Johnson was in his 3.  

Rosen is a different story.  He is suffering from a fanbase inundated with highly rated young forwards lately (Quinn, Mitts, JJP, Krebs and Cozens) plus top prospects on defense and in goal. He is also being overshadowed by guys drafted after him in the same draft class like Kisakov with 26 MHL goals, Bloom 24 in the OHL, and Nadeau with 28 in Q compared to his 7 across 3 different leagues.  It also doesn't help that he is playing in relative obscurity in a second level Swedish league while guys like Bloom and Nadeau are succeeding here in NA.  If Rosen was a Capitals prospect, give their lack of top prospects, the hype train would be in full motion. 

 

I actually think that Bloom, Nadeau and Kozak are much better candidates to make an impact than any of the Russians and Rosen.  Russians may never come across the pond with all the geo-political craziness and even if they do it is 3-4 years out. Rosen is full of skill but bite-sized......I'm not so sure that all the positive things he is know for will be that transferable. I hope I'm wrong but 5'10 and sub 160 is not ideal.

[DarthEbriate]

Just to recap: since the Eichel activation on 2/16/22:

Eichel 14 GP   5-4-9   -1

Tuch 12 GP    1-4-5    -1   (February cold streak)

Krebs 12 GP   3-3-6   -2

[Curt]

5 hours ago, Johnny Utah said:

I actually think that Bloom, Nadeau and Kozak are much better candidates to make an impact than any of the Russians and Rosen.  Russians may never come across the pond with all the geo-political craziness and even if they do it is 3-4 years out. Rosen is full of skill but bite-sized......I'm not so sure that all the positive things he is know for will be that transferable. I hope I'm wrong but 5'10 and sub 160 is not ideal.

I think you need to consider you may be biasing towards the CHL prospects.  If the Russians or Rosen were playing in a CHL league, I have no doubt that they would be putting up numbers just as impressive.  I’m not sure that Kozak is much larger than Rosen, and he isn’t nearly as skilled.

The situation with Russia is definitely a concern right now, but who knows what the situation will be in a couple years.  Guys like Nadeau, Bloom and Kozak are also 3-4 years away from the NHL anyway.

[LGR4GM]

39 minutes ago, Curt said:

I think you need to consider you may be biasing towards the CHL prospects.  If the Russians or Rosen were playing in a CHL league, I have no doubt that they would be putting up numbers just as impressive.  I’m not sure that Kozak is much larger than Rosen, and he isn’t nearly as skilled.

The situation with Russia is definitely a concern right now, but who knows what the situation will be in a couple years.  Guys like Nadeau, Bloom and Kozak are also 3-4 years away from the NHL anyway.

Rosen would destroy CHL opponents because he can out skate them. That said, I'm very happy with the chl guys this year and we'll see if Rosen comes back from injury how he does.

[JoeSchmoe]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Rosen would destroy CHL opponents because he can out skate them. That said, I'm very happy with the chl guys this year and we'll see if Rosen comes back from injury how he does.

He didn't exactly destroy things in the Swedish Junior League. It almost sounds like you think the CHL is the inferior league.

[Curt]

2 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said:

He didn't exactly destroy things in the Swedish Junior League. It almost sounds like you think the CHL is the inferior league.

They are probably pretty close in terms of quality.

The CHL leagues are higher scoring than the Swedish junior leagues and the CHL players put up more gaudy point totals.

[JKB1646]

On 3/11/2022 at 12:03 PM, SDS said:

this should be a new topic

 

On 3/14/2022 at 8:17 AM, The Ghost of Doohickie said:

Yes.  The Sabres are vastly improved.

John is the better player, but he never played with heart.  Tuch and Krebs do.

Has anyone else become a VGK hater as I have? The five game losing streak makes me just giddy. The new culture that the Sabres have instilled also makes me feel Times are a Changing.

[sabrefanday1]

27 minutes ago, JKB1646 said:

 

Has anyone else become a VGK hater as I have? The five game losing streak makes me just giddy. The new culture that the Sabres have instilled also makes me feel Times are a Changing.

I too hate Vegas and their smug attitude. They got everything handed to them in their expansion deal and were made to look like geniuses. Of course Seattle sure did not get anywhere near what Vegas hauled in  as managers learned from their mistakes ( a rare event indeed). Looks good on Vegas now losing and probably thinking or wondering if they made a BIG mistake trading for Jack. I am very pleased with the return and they will only get better (plus we have draft picks too) 

[SwampD]

Lots o counting chickens going on around here.

I wonder how we’ll all feel when we see Jack score the series ender in round 2.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

43 minutes ago, JKB1646 said:

 

Has anyone else become a VGK hater as I have? The five game losing streak makes me just giddy. The new culture that the Sabres have instilled also makes me feel Times are a Changing.

Hate is a strong, yet wasted emotion.

Move to indifference and yea shall be set free ... 😉

[Pimlach]

8 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Lots o counting chickens going on around here.

I wonder how we’ll all feel when we see Jack score the series ender in round 2.

You have Vegas winning round 2 and you are concerned about “counting chickens”. ???

[French Collection]

12 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Lots o counting chickens going on around here.

I wonder how we’ll all feel when we see Jack score the series ender in round 2.

First step is getting to round 1.

[SwampD]

19 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

You have Vegas winning round 2 and you are concerned about “counting chickens”. ???

Good point. Just sayin, is all.

I don’t see them winning round two, btw.

[WildCard]

1 hour ago, JKB1646 said:

Has anyone else become a VGK hater as I have? The five game losing streak makes me just giddy. The new culture that the Sabres have instilled also makes me feel Times are a Changing.

Never liked Vegas ever since the expansion draft and a Finals their first year.

[Archie Lee]

There is a rush to judge player acquisitions today. Certainly Vegas acquired Eichel as the missing piece and they will be quite disappointed if they miss the playoffs. They do though have him for the next 4 years, and it is possible if not certain that he will be a better player a year from now. 
 

There are two reasons for why my current second favourite team is “whoever is playing Vegas”:

 

1). Draft position. If we end up with a pick in the 14-16 range that would be awesome obviously. 
 

2). The general post-trade media reaction. Once the trade was done, Eichel went from being damaged goods who the Sabres needed to be realistic about (in regards to trade return) to a Nathan Mackinnon-like star who was going to put Vegas over the top. That Eichel had missed nearly two years of hockey, was having major surgery and had no history of leading an NHL team to anything, was not part of the consideration. 
 

All that said, there is lots of hockey left this year. 

[DarthEbriate]

2 hours ago, The Ghost of Doohickie said:

Hate is a strong, yet wasted emotion.

... Hate leads to suffering.

2 hours ago, SwampD said:

Lots o counting chickens going on around here.

Chickens leads to soup.

Soup makes you feel better.

[pi2000]

Tuch is such an awesome dude, trading his personality away from Vegas and replacing it with Eichel's is having a much larger impact on that team than we think.

[LGR4GM]

10 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said:

He didn't exactly destroy things in the Swedish Junior League. It almost sounds like you think the CHL is the inferior league.

Swedish juniors is on par with the CHL. In addition, you forgot the most important component to the conversation, AGE. 19 year old Rosen would do very well in a league dominated by 17yr old kids. He had 9pts in 8 SweJ20 games, no reason to think he couldn't do even better in the CHL. 

7 hours ago, Curt said:

They are probably pretty close in terms of quality.

The CHL leagues are higher scoring than the Swedish junior leagues and the CHL players put up more gaudy point totals.

Exactly, they are higher scoring because the Swedish leagues IMPO have always put a premium on defensive responsibility and that limits some things. Couple with that the ice size difference and we really have a different ballgame. 

[JoeSchmoe]

28 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Couple with that the ice size difference and we really have a different ballgame. 

You'd think an underweight kid would do worse on smaller ice. He didn't do much in the couple games he played on NHL size ice in Alberta.

[LGR4GM]

12 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

You'd think an underweight kid would do worse on smaller ice. He didn't do much in the couple games he played on NHL size ice in Alberta.

An 18yr old didn't well in a tournament dominated by 19 year olds. I mean I can also find 2 games of Shane Wrights that suck and pluck them. 

Idk if Rosen will be good or not and I keep saying that but yes, he is undersized (weight) and needs to get stronger. Once he does, all the other skills are there (skating is elite, stickhandling is very good, shot is very good, IQ is very good). 

[LGR4GM]

16 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

You'd think an underweight kid would do worse on smaller ice. He didn't do much in the couple games he played on NHL size ice in Alberta.

Let me put it this way, I have more faith in a kid with all the skills who isn't strong enough (5'11" 160lbs) and needs to add muscle putting it all together, than drafting a 6'5" 210lb kid who is physically mature but has holes in his game. 

[Curt]

48 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

You'd think an underweight kid would do worse on smaller ice. He didn't do much in the couple games he played on NHL size ice in Alberta.

Not necessarily.

It’s more difficult to get inside on the larger ice because defenses are generally better able keep the offensive players far to the outside.

Plus I think teams just tend to play a more defensive style over in Sweden.

They certainly score fewer goals in the Swedish junior leagues than in the CHL.  That’s not debatable.

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

Not necessarily.

It’s more difficult to get inside on the larger ice because defenses are generally better able keep the offensive players far to the outside.

Plus I think teams just tend to play a more defensive style over in Sweden.

They certainly score fewer goals in the Swedish junior leagues than in the CHL.  That’s not debatable.

I read a good article about ice surface a few years ago that basically went against all conventional wisdom of the larger ice surface being better for speed/faster players.  It claimed just the opposite in most cases.   The large ice surface allows the Defense more time to setup.  They have that extra half second to see the play develop.  More importantly it is about the distance the puck travels.  On a small ice surface there are more 'bang-bang' plays, a pass from the board to the slot is shorter and gives the D less time to react.  And quite simply on a smaller ice surface the puck is usually closer to the net and that is where more goals are scored.

The large ice surface benefits most a team with a fast/mobile D-unit...and that benefit is it allows them to react to and choke off the opposing rushes a bit easier.

The small ice surface benefits forwards with good hands and good acceleration (that good first step).